Pick and chose your Catholic liturgy

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SMHW

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Just for fun… :rolleyes:

Pick and chose the liturgical words, actions, languages, postures, Church design, vestments… You name it. Combine them into a Eucharistic Liturgy. But you have to pick and chose from existing Catholic rites for the Mass/Divine Liturgy.
 
I don’t get it. Are we designing our own liturgies? The YTC missal?
 
Sorry, there are enough liturgists messing up the Mass to need my help. 😃
 
I’m happy with the Divine Liturgy “as is” for the most part.

However, I love the “Te Deum” and currently it’s not part of either the Mass OR the Divine Liturgy. I’d say make that the opening hymn for both. 😃
 
SMHW said:
Just for fun… :rolleyes:

Pick and chose the liturgical words, actions, languages, postures, Church design, vestments… You name it. Combine them into a Eucharistic Liturgy. But you have to pick and chose from existing Catholic rites for the Mass/Divine Liturgy.
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Done: the 1962 Missal.
 
SMHW said:
Just for fun… :rolleyes:

Pick and chose the liturgical words, actions, languages, postures, Church design, vestments… You name it. Combine them into a Eucharistic Liturgy. But you have to pick and chose from existing Catholic rites for the Mass/Divine Liturgy.
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I’d love any of the following, in no particular order:
  • OF, Latin Ordinary chants, Latin or english propers (SEP or GR), Rest in english, celebrant’s parts all sung, ad orientem, communion rail, and polyphonic motets, deacons in dalmatics, chalice veil and burse, and tabernacle veil, maniple.
  • OF, Same as above, but all in latin
  • 1962 Missal, any form (they are all wonderful), but if it’s a Sunday, preferably a Missa Cantata or higher
 
Byzantine Rite: Liturgy of St John Chrysostom

Latin Rite: OF Daily Mass with no music
 
TheMc said:
I’d love any of the following, in no particular order:
  • OF, Latin Ordinary chants, Latin or english propers (SEP or GR), Rest in english, celebrant’s parts all sung, ad orientem, communion rail, and polyphonic motets, deacons in dalmatics, chalice veil and burse, and tabernacle veil, maniple.
  • OF, Same as above, but all in latin
  • 1962 Missal, any form (they are all wonderful), but if it’s a Sunday, preferably a Missa Cantata or higher
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Okay, I can agree with you on those and it gives choices for those that reject the '62 missal. I’ll even give up the communion rail on the first two if you keep the parade out of the sanctuary. I actually think that the first one (minus the ad orientem) is really what the VII OF form was supposed to be.
 
Usige said:
I actually think that the first one (minus the ad orientem) is really what the VII OF form was supposed to be.
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You’re totally right, although I think the council also envisioned that ad orientem be continued, at least most of the time. Where in the documents does it suggest a change?

I actually have a priest near me that will celebrate the Mass exactly like your words with this specifically in mind. People ask him about it, and he replies that this is the OF how the council intended (except maybe a little more latin than just the ordinary chants, but it’s pretty darn close). And he’s right.
 
TheMc said:
You’re totally right, although I think the council also envisioned that ad orientem be continued, at least most of the time. Where in the documents does it suggest a change?
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You are right of course. I had though that when the suggestion to move the altar to a more central location that discontinuing ad orientem was implied, but looking back through the documents there is nothing that requires either. Thanks for pointing that out for me.
TheMc said:
I actually have a priest near me that will celebrate the Mass exactly like your words with this specifically in mind. People ask him about it, and he replies that this is the OF how the council intended (except maybe a little more latin than just the ordinary chants, but it’s pretty darn close). And he’s right.
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I feel so cheated :(. I wish there were more priest that understood that the OF was not supposed to be a radical change that it has become. I would be perfectly fine with the OF celebrated in that form (assuming it also required shredding anything from OCP ;))
 
Usige said:
You are right of course. I had though that when the suggestion to move the altar to a more central location that discontinuing ad orientem was implied, but looking back through the documents there is nothing that requires either. Thanks for pointing that out for me.
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No problemo.
Usige said:
I feel so cheated :(. I wish there were more priest that understood that the OF was not supposed to be a radical change that it has become. I would be perfectly fine with the OF celebrated in that form
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I know what you’re going through. It’s all right there in the documents, yet so many priests ignore it. It’s so frustrating.
Usige said:
assuming it also required shredding anything from OCP 😉
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:clapping::clapping:
 
The 1962 Missal, with the Missa Cantata understood as the “usual” form for Sunday masses, instructions for the use of the “dialogue” style with the laity answering their part along with the altar servers, permission for limited optional use of the vernacular (less vernacular with increasing levels of solemnity), and some sort of revision of the calendar to include new saints and more readings from throughout the Bible.

Basically, the Extrordinary form celebrated in a similar way to your average Byzantine Divine Liturgy.
 
Pre-Pian reform Extraordinary Form with the option of blue as a liturgical colour on Marian feasts.
 
Also in no particular order:
  • The Liturgy of the Ordo Romanus primus with updated calendar to include new saints/feasts, etc.
  • The 1962 Missal with updated calendar to include new saints/feasts, etc. and the pre-Pius XII Holy Week rites.
  • The 1965 Missal with updated calendar to include new saints/feasts, etc. and the pre-Pius XII Holy Week rites.
  • The OF with the Offertory Prayers (Little Canon) restored, the ancient embolism restored, and the pre-Pius XII Holy Week rites.
 
Although I’m somewhat skeptical of my own competence in answering the question, I’ll throw in my two cents:

I normally attend an NO service in English. Last Sunday I attended an NO service in Latin, which included the Kyrie and a couple of other elements not usually seen with the vernacular. I’m watched videos of the TML on youtube, and plan to attend one within the next few weeks.

Quite frankly, I see merit in all of them. The ritual and dignity of the TLM appeals to me - then again, having the Priest always facing the altar, perhaps not even speaking audibly, does not. I love having the congregation sing hymns, in addition to some of the chants sung by the Priest or Choir. I think some things should be in Latin - I love the use of incense, asperges, and the Kyrie. But other things should be in the vernacular.

To be honest, while I think Mass COULD be better than it commonly is, a missal is a missal, and they can all be followed with great dignity or solemnity or not. I think the problem is far less the Novus Ordo than it is the laziness, permissiveness, and lack of respect for the worship that have been allowed to creep into the service.

I think we would do very little to improve the quality of Mass simply by reforming the missal, unless we also accompanied it with a serious push to reform and replace behaviors which have developed that are less than appropriate.

Oh - but keep the Gothic chasuble - the Roman (fiddleback) ones are a horrible cross between an apron and an x-ray lead vest.
 
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