Picking and choosing what you follow? Why?

[Graing]

Craig,
I am glad that you are so optimistic for the future, but with all do respect after reading the results of these surveys, I can’t really share in that optimism. They show a steady progressive erosion in fundamental Catholic belief.

As far as our leaders eschewing political correctness, again I must take exception to that as well. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) approved a new document on November 14, 2007, to guide Catholic voters in the upcoming elections. In this document they place racism, immigration policy, and lack of health on the same immoral plane as the abortion, the death penalty, unjust war, and war crimes, which involve the direct taking of life. The bishops’ inclusion of racism, immigration policy and health care only serves to dilute the moral imperative to defend human life.

The bishops even go so far as to say, “A Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who takes a position in favor of an intrinsic evil such as abortion or racism…” (#34). The bishops are drawing an equivalence between abortion, the violation of the fundamental right to life that has resulted in over 50 million abortions in the U.S. since 1973, and racism, a term they neglect to define and which really isn’t a major theme in this election.

Political correctness abounds.

Thomas

Thomas,

I was unaware of the document that you describe. That’s unfortunate and leads me to believe that we have further to go with our bishops in the US than I thought. I suppose I am basing my opinion on what I read and hear from the Holy Father and some other great leaders in Rome. There are a few great bishops in the US still and some of the newer priests are quite orthodox. I will continue to hold on to hope and pray that we can exorcise the moral equivalence and political correctness that dilutes the faith

 

[Thomas58]

There are a few great bishops in the US still and some of the newer priests are quite orthodox. I will continue to hold on to hope and pray that we can exorcise the moral equivalence and political correctness that dilutes the faith

Craig,
There may be a few great Bishops, but I think on the whole that USCCB is pretty useless. They could not even come to an agreement on a statement concerning politicians who openly support the slaughter of the innocent unborn. Very little moral backbone coming from them.

Hopefully a higher percentage of the newer priests are more orthodox, especially those coming from the more Traditional Societies such as the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter.

But you are right. We must continue to hold onto hope and pray.

Thomas

 

[KathleenElsie]

Craig,
There may be a few great Bishops, but I think on the whole that USCCB is pretty useless. They could not even come to an agreement on a statement concerning politicians who openly support the slaughter of the innocent unborn. Very little moral backbone coming from them.

Hopefully a higher percentage of the newer priests are more orthodox, especially those coming from the more Traditional Societies such as the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter.

But you are right. We must continue to hold onto hope and pray.

Thomas

 

[catharina]

Thomas 58 and KE - with no offense to either of you …I think the Bishops too have gotten the short end of the stick: meaning where once we would have been ever faithful in praying for them and we’d have been careful to greet them, now I think some Catholics in the USA feel free to criticize bishops long before they ever think to pray for them. Yes, I do mean the bishops of today, here and now, who might need far more prayerful support than most of their predecessors. I think the trend of “judging” the Church and our bishops was apparent long before the news of the sexual abuse scandal was in the public realm. Just my considered opinion.

 

[Brother_John]

But, hey, there’s not a problem in the “New Springtime” of the Post Vatican II Church, right? Just keep telling yourself that the Emperor has on clothes.

Interesting stuff. But, you seem to want to lay the blame for all of it on Vatican II. Not So.

Since the 50’s, we have been inundated by technology and media, telling us how to live, and that’s not just Catholics.

No prayer is school, Roe vs Wade, no more Gideons passing out pocket NT to school kids, dual-income-so-we-can-buy-more-stuff households, womens’ lib and feminism, garbage on radio and tv, easy divorce in the civil courts, condoms passed out in school…on and on and on…

Our societal flaws have eaten away at our value system, and ultimately at our faith and reverence, not to mention discipline. Our parents would be in prison now for the methods they used to discipline us back then. Our society used to SUPPORT our religious values, now that society ATTACKS those values.

It ain’t all Vatican II. There’s a whole lot more to it. Burying our heads in Latin Mass and Communion on the Tongue will not solve or even retard the societal issues that erode our faith and morals from the other direction.

 

[Napoli21]

I ask myself, if I do not believe all the Church teaches, am I a hypocrite? I was poorly educated in the Catholic faith. I am not alone in this poor education of the faith. I did not know ABC was a sin until several years into my marriage. I don’t think picking and choosing what you believe is being Catholic. I know the Church will not change. I feel I must change or leave. I ask myself also, Do I stay because I am a cradle catholic and are used to it? Am I really Protestant but don’t realize it? I never thought I would ever leave the Catholic Church but now I am looking seriously into other faiths. Going into a Methodist or Lutheran service does not bother me like I thought it would. I do respect the Church. I will never speak bad of the Church or convince others to believe as I do. I feel it is better for me to be a heretic outside of the Church than remain Catholic.

 

[ac_claire]

I ask myself, if I do not believe all the Church teaches, am I a hypocrite? I was poorly educated in the Catholic faith. I am not alone in this poor education of the faith. I did not know ABC was a sin until several years into my marriage. I don’t think picking and choosing what you believe is being Catholic. I know the Church will not change. I feel I must change or leave. I ask myself also, Do I stay because I am a cradle catholic and are used to it? Am I really Protestant but don’t realize it? I never thought I would ever leave the Catholic Church but now I am looking seriously into other faiths. Going into a Methodist or Lutheran service does not bother me like I thought it would. I do respect the Church. I will never speak bad of the Church or convince others to believe as I do.** I feel it is better for me to be a heretic outside of the Church than remain Catholic**.

Hi Napoli,

I hope you don’t mind unsolicited advice…
I don’t know exactly what you’re going through or where you are in your struggles, but I thought I should reply just on the off-chance that my experience could shed some light.

I sympathize with what you’re going through. Your last line especially jumped out at me. I’ve thought that myself, around the time I left home to go to college, I was morally and spiritually adrift. And I’ve found that it’s a pretty common thought. I believe it’s a defensive technique our minds use against us, offering us a “way out” of the moral and intellectual struggles we’re going through. Along the lines of, “I obviously can’t accept or don’t believe or understand XYZ…I’m not showing proper reverence, so the highest road I can take is to leave the Church…” My advice is to trust the Church. Just hang on a little bit longer; continue to pray and don’t make up your mind on this yet…give God some room and time to do his work.

One thing that helped me was to change my mindset a little bit. If my own beliefs differed from Church teaching, I decided that I would assume that the Church was correct and the burden of proof was on me, not the Church. And more importantly, I decided that I had an obligation to try and reconcile myself with the Church on these issues. I can’t say that my heart was 100% in it at the time. I was not gung-ho, and I was really missing the fervor I’d had at other times. So it just had to be a decision. I surrendered my will the way you open a door, just a crack…
You may be amazed at how the grace of God will carry you from there. You can do it like they do in AA- one day at a time.

You are Christian, so why settle for a “twig” denomination when you can have the living vine? You said yourself that it’s only been within the last few years that you’ve grasped some of the teachings which you weren’t even aware of before. Give God some time; give yourself some more time to learn, and pray for wisdom and humility. I heard a priest on the radio the other day say if you don’t trust enough in God, pray for trust. Pray for an increase in faith the way St. Peter did. I don’t think you are Protestant in your heart. I think you’re just a Catholic who is struggling, like we all do.

/soapbox

 

[Napoli21]

ac claire, thank you for your advice. I feel I am being fed more by the twig than the so called vine at this time. This past Sunday is a perfect example. I went to mass at the Catholic church in town. It was a 7:30 mass, no music and mass was over in 35 minutes. The priest read the shortened gospel and still commented that the readings were long and he would give a short homily which he did, talked about water cleansing. It was cold out and many were dressed in sweats or jeans. Later in the morning I went to a nondenominational church. The service was slightly over 2 hours long. It seemed less than the 35 minutes at the mass. The people were dressed in nice pants and shirts. Some women in dresses and some men in suits. they were dressed like they were meeting someone important, which they were. Three weeks ago at was at this same church and they had communion service. They believe that Jesus enters into them through the bread. They don’t believe it is His actual body. They were very reverent. It was different from the Catholics popping their communion vitamin. Three weeks ago the homily at the Catholic church was give to the bishop. I have gone to other Catholic churches in the area and the experience is same. I want to go to church and be filled with Jesus Christ

 

[catharina]

ac claire, thank you for your advice. I feel I am being fed more by the twig than the so called vine at this time. This past Sunday is a perfect example. I went to mass at the Catholic church in town. It was a 7:30 mass, no music and mass was over in 35 minutes. The priest read the shortened gospel and still commented that the readings were long and he would give a short homily which he did, talked about water cleansing. It was cold out and many were dressed in sweats or jeans. Later in the morning I went to a nondenominational church. The service was slightly over 2 hours long. It seemed less than the 35 minutes at the mass. The people were dressed in nice pants and shirts. Some women in dresses and some men in suits. they were dressed like they were meeting someone important, which they were. Three weeks ago at was at this same church and they had communion service. They believe that Jesus enters into them through the bread. They don’t believe it is His actual body. They were very reverent. It was different from the Catholics popping their communion vitamin. Three weeks ago the homily at the Catholic church was give to the bishop. I have gone to other Catholic churches in the area and the experience is same. I want to go to church and be filled with Jesus Christ

What you want seems to be dictated by how you feel. No man can serve two masters, remember? When you go Church-shopping you are actually evaluating God’s promises as deficient. Jesus founded our Church on Peter and He promised to be with it always. As long as some treat it as just another flavor of popsicles, there is a weakening to the Church. Our Lord won’t abandon it so why do people imagine they should? Your responsibility is to prepare yourself for Mass before you arrive at Mass. Maybe do the readings alone the night befpre Mass. Maybe arrive fifteen minutes early and do the readings before Mass - spending extra time in prayer too. Maybe attend a later Mass rather than the earliest one that’s often scheduled for the elderly and those who work weekends. Don’t blame God in His Church for weaknesses. Get stronger yourself, build your faith through prayer instead.