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eucharisteo
Guest
This is really a question of curiosity. Would it be a sin to use ABC for controlling biological functionality after having a tubiligation?
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Whitacre_Girl
Guest
Yes, because although the chances for conception are lowered from the TL, one would still be interefering with sex as God intended it by taking the pill with the expressed purpose of preventing pregnancy.
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Moscati
Guest
Hm . . . well, I suppose if you had a legitimate medical need to be on hormonal meds, you could, just like you can if you haven’t had a tubal ligation. I would suspect you’d need to abstain during possible fertile periods, though. People have gotten pregnant after having their tubes tied! (God must REALLY want to bless those women with babies. 
)
As far as I know, there’s no medical reason other than contraception to have a tubal ligation, though, so they’re not licit.
)As far as I know, there’s no medical reason other than contraception to have a tubal ligation, though, so they’re not licit.
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Rence
Guest
You are allowed to take OCs for medical purposes only as spelled in Humanae Vitae:
Lawful Therapeutic Means
15. the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever. (19)
Which means, if it is for medical purposes, yes, you can take OCs. Some people say you have to abstain during fertile periods, others say you don’t have to. I say there is nothing in the letter that says you have to abstain, particularly with that last part of “even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result from”. Just as long as you understand that contraception is not the reason to take OCs.
The whole letter is here, so you can read it all for yourself:
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html
And here’s what the Vatican says about tubal ligation. Though I have no idea why you had that done, or whether it was medically necessary:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_31071994_uterine-isolation_en.html
Lawful Therapeutic Means
15. the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever. (19)
Which means, if it is for medical purposes, yes, you can take OCs. Some people say you have to abstain during fertile periods, others say you don’t have to. I say there is nothing in the letter that says you have to abstain, particularly with that last part of “even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result from”. Just as long as you understand that contraception is not the reason to take OCs.
The whole letter is here, so you can read it all for yourself:
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html
And here’s what the Vatican says about tubal ligation. Though I have no idea why you had that done, or whether it was medically necessary:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_31071994_uterine-isolation_en.html
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Heavens_Flowers
Guest
Any form of birth control that hinders or prohibits life is against church teaching. There would be no medical reason to have a tubal ligation. I believe you can have them cut for medical reasons but your not allowed to have them. Same with any type of birthcontrol.
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Reuben_J
Guest
The BTL was a sin if it is done for the purpose to stop conception. After that, if ABC is used, I would say that must be the pills, it would be purely for medicinal purpose as the woman is already sterile. Then in that case the usage of the ABC pills is not a sin.
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Ron_Conte
Guest
The above post is a serious misinterpretation of magisterial teaching on intrinsic evil.
There are three fonts of morality:
- intention or purpose for which the act is done
- the act itself with its moral object
- the circumstances.
The intention (or purpose) and the circumstances can never transform an act that is intrinsically evil into a moral act. This is the definitive teaching of the Church and a required belief. Whoever teaches the contrary, teaches serious doctrinal error.
So a medical purpose (first font) cannot cause an intrinsically evil act to become moral.
Pope John Paul II: “Consequently, circumstances or intentions can never transform an act, intrinsically evil by virtue of its object, into an act ‘subjectively’ good or defensible as a choice.”
Pope John Paul II, Veritatis Splendor, n. 81.
Pope John Paul II: “No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the Law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church.”
Pope John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, n. 62.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church: “It is therefore an error to judge the morality of human acts by considering only the intention that inspires them or the circumstances (environment, social pressure, duress or emergency, etc.) which supply their context. There are acts which, in and of themselves, independently of circumstances and intentions, are always gravely illicit by reason of their object; such as blasphemy and perjury, murder and adultery. One may not do evil so that good may result from it.”
CCC, n. 1756.
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Ron_Conte
Guest
Direct sterilization is intrinsically evil and always immoral.
Pope Paul VI: “Therefore We base Our words on the first principles of a human and Christian doctrine of marriage when We are obliged once more to declare that the direct interruption of the generative process already begun and, above all, all direct abortion, even for therapeutic reasons, are to be absolutely excluded as lawful means of regulating the number of children. Equally to be condemned, as the magisterium of the Church has affirmed on many occasions, is direct sterilization, whether of the man or of the woman, whether permanent or temporary.”
Pope Paul VI, Humanae Vitae, n. 14.
Theraputic reasons do not justify direct abortion, because abortion is intrinsically evil. Similarly, any interruption of the generative process already begun (e.g. by use of oral contraceptives or spermicides) is also absolutely to be excluded even for theraputic reasons.
Indirect sterilization occurs for example, when the uterus or ovaries are removed due to cancer. Indirect sterilization is not intrinsically evil.
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puzzleannie
Guest
it would not be a sin at any time to take a contraceptive prescribed by a doctor to treat a medical condition, as long as it is not being used to avoid conception and pregnancy. If such a woman is sexually active and capable of conceiving she should consult both her doctor and confessor about using NFP because in some instances the pill can act as an abortificant by preventing implantation of conceptus. Someone who is infertile by nature or surgery does not have that concern. Ask your own doctor and your own pastor about your own personal situation. Also it is wise to get a second medical opinion any time your doctor suggests a very powerful drug like contraceptives which have wide ranging side effects.
OP did not ask whether the tubal ligation was moral, not did she ask about therapeutic abortion. She asked about taking the pill for medical purposes other than contraception.
OP would be well advised to search the AAA forum upon which this question has been addressed many, many times.
I repeat, ask your own confessor about your own personal situation.
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Ron_Conte
Guest
The above claim directly contradicts the teaching of the Magisterium that intrinsically evil acts, such as contraception, are not justified by intention (purpose) or circumstances.
See my quotes above from the Magisterium to support this assertion. Also, notice that the posters who say the contrary are ignoring the teaching of the Church on intrinsic evil. They do not even use the term intrinsic evil or moral object. And they do not quote magisterial documents on this point, except for the following quote, which they misinterpret:
Humanae Vitae 15. “On the other hand, the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever.”
This quote does not refer to a theraputic intention or purpose, nor does it refer to contraception, but rather to indirect sterilization, an act which has a good moral object and is not intrinsically evil. To be moral, an act must have a good intention (motive) and a good moral object, and the good consequences must outweigh the bad.
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eucharisteo
Guest
The questions is really merely theoretical. I know that had serious mentstral cycle problems lasting for several weeks at a time. The other person, my wife, has them sporadically…unpredictable. NFP would not work on her (correct me if I’m incorrect). As much as I would love to have more children that just isn’t possible. When we converted to Catholicism it was too late and not my choice anyway. I did try to prevent it but when I got back to the hospital it was too late.
Thankfully our children outnumber us still. The last one was born with a malformation that healed, miraculously to us and thus our Catholic conversion (long story). My wife became seriously fearful of something more serious with another child. Once she hones in on something there’s no stopping her. I tried to talk her out of it and advised her as best I could not to do it in case we ever converted to Catholicism, ironically. I knew she was anti-Catholic. I think I had been ready to convert for many years prior but was waiting for her to see the light.
Personally, I didn’t I feel comfortable with my wife using contraception and learned to hate them from the very first we married many years ago. I just assumed we would use a natural regulating method like NFP. Contraception not only cut us off from God but each other. I felt like the only thing missing was the cameras (my selfworth was reduced). In spite of what women think about me we too have feelings. We’re just taught to subdue them. I believe contraception was the reason we had arguments or ill feeling. She would never buy into Catholic moral theology on the subject because she was just doing what all of her Christian sisters did. But I took it as her way of having control over me (imagination maybe). I got to a point that I didn’t want to be with her because I was so hurt and angry with her for doing this.
A couple of days ago we were openly talking about the question above. I know she won’t take them and I wouldn’t be fond if she did. I still like to believe there is a chance, as small as it may be. Anyway she hates taking pills. I have to tie her up, pinch her nose and force them down her throat just to make her take her regular medication. I remember seeing unused pill boxes around the house. I always had hopes when we were together. Sure I had anxiety days fearing another child would really drag us down even further financially. But God took care of us anyway, in spite of this sin. hind sight 20/20. Now we know for sure.
God bless and thanks for the replies.
Thankfully our children outnumber us still. The last one was born with a malformation that healed, miraculously to us and thus our Catholic conversion (long story). My wife became seriously fearful of something more serious with another child. Once she hones in on something there’s no stopping her. I tried to talk her out of it and advised her as best I could not to do it in case we ever converted to Catholicism, ironically. I knew she was anti-Catholic. I think I had been ready to convert for many years prior but was waiting for her to see the light.
Personally, I didn’t I feel comfortable with my wife using contraception and learned to hate them from the very first we married many years ago. I just assumed we would use a natural regulating method like NFP. Contraception not only cut us off from God but each other. I felt like the only thing missing was the cameras (my selfworth was reduced). In spite of what women think about me we too have feelings. We’re just taught to subdue them. I believe contraception was the reason we had arguments or ill feeling. She would never buy into Catholic moral theology on the subject because she was just doing what all of her Christian sisters did. But I took it as her way of having control over me (imagination maybe). I got to a point that I didn’t want to be with her because I was so hurt and angry with her for doing this.
A couple of days ago we were openly talking about the question above. I know she won’t take them and I wouldn’t be fond if she did. I still like to believe there is a chance, as small as it may be. Anyway she hates taking pills. I have to tie her up, pinch her nose and force them down her throat just to make her take her regular medication. I remember seeing unused pill boxes around the house. I always had hopes when we were together. Sure I had anxiety days fearing another child would really drag us down even further financially. But God took care of us anyway, in spite of this sin. hind sight 20/20. Now we know for sure.
God bless and thanks for the replies.
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puzzleannie
Guest
if you are not taking the drug to contracept, but for one of its other effects,
it is not a contraceptive. \
If you are sexually active, then yes you do have to take that effect into account as I said. In OP’s hypothetical case that possibility does not arise.
I take an arthritis drug which has an ingredient that is one component of a multi-ingredient drug sometimes prescribed as “emergency contraception”. Since I am well past the stage in life where conception or preventing it is a concern, this is not a contraceptive. Therefore it is not wrong to take it.
I would not personally take ABC because of its side effects, but I did at one time, before I knew about those effects, to treat a condition that was preventing pregnancy, with good effect. In my case the drug was not a contraceptive because I was not using it that way and made sure (on the advice of my doctor and my priest, as I advised OP to seek) not during the time I was on the drug to allow a situation to arise where its contraceptive effects would have prevented a pregnancy.
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Reuben_J
Guest
The OP mentioned about tubal ligation which mean she was already sterile.
When tubal ligation is done, one of the complications may be hormone inbalance. If ABC pills are prescribed as a remedy to this situation then the usage of the pills is not a sin. Of course the bilateral tubal ligation is a sin in the first place unless there was compelling reason that it was a matter of life and death that it must be done., which I have never heard of.
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Reuben_J
Guest
I take it that she had a BTL done on her and when you realized it, it was already done. Was it?
There are many couples who sacrifice their health for the sake of the Lord. I am sure God will honor both of you for that.
The effect of sin can manifest in confusion, depression and lack of peace in a relationship or household. Nevertheless as husband and wife, it is a joint responsibility, as much as both of you is not the sole owner of your body respectively but each spouse has a share in the other’s body for in marriage the two becomes one.
In your case, both of you need to work on your communication between husband and wife and should reach a joint conclusion on issue as important as children and conception. It is a grace that you were converted to Catholicism, maybe that should be the starting point or as a point of reference on your new life. Remember that God is faithful to those who are faithful to him. Trust him as the Lord of your marriage
May God bless and give you wisdom and strength and that both of you may overcome your predicament by the intervention of God.
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eucharisteo
Guest
Reuben
What planet were you born on. Are you even human? lol.
I share to show people what not to do. Or as a reference to learn from. My relationship with my wife after 20 years and going is fine. Don’t medal in people’s relationships. Best Advice 101, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Our marriage counseling is not up for grabs. Stay out of my marriage.
The when and why are none of anyone’s business except God’s and our confessors. That too has already been confessed. Marriage to my wife is a work of mercy just knowing her history. She grew up in a very fundamentalist Christian only family, where women are severely marginalized. Her hangups are abnormal. She’s lived in fear a major portion of her life, up to the point where I married her. But the fear after years of experience continued for understandable reasons after marriage, which is not up for discussion. Don’t mess around in relationships joined before God and man.
We’ve both already gone through and plan to continue our journey together in the Catholic Church with our spiritual director, new found friends and a family that is just now discovering our new faith. I’m a revert and have seen more that the average. Even went to the seminary. That’s why it gets offensive when Catholics suddenly get a Saint syndrome mind to start giving unsolicited advice. No one asked for it. My question was truly out of curiosity. But I know from experience on this board that questions always draw out the unstable, hard of heart, well advised and whatever. The pill might be something she may need to use if it is in fact not a sin. Her hormones are off and I believe that most of her current anxieties are caused from the TL. But she’s afraid to even think about it because all surgeries have risks. But as long as she is fearful I can’t do anything for her except pray and bear through it with her.
LOL. My goodness, what’s wrong with people. Having a user name on a Catholic answer board does not make you either an expert or a spiritual director. If you are an expert you ought to ask if the imagined patient desires help first.
Prayers for you too. Don’t let my little lecture get you down, just trying to give wiser advice. Stay out of people’s relationships when they don’t open it up for advice. I made myself perfectly clear about my topic. Don’t read more into than is necessary. My wife’s medical advice is between her and the doctor and spiritual director/confessor. Conversion is a life experience, not an over night success.
PAX
What planet were you born on. Are you even human? lol.
I share to show people what not to do. Or as a reference to learn from. My relationship with my wife after 20 years and going is fine. Don’t medal in people’s relationships. Best Advice 101, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Our marriage counseling is not up for grabs. Stay out of my marriage.
The when and why are none of anyone’s business except God’s and our confessors. That too has already been confessed. Marriage to my wife is a work of mercy just knowing her history. She grew up in a very fundamentalist Christian only family, where women are severely marginalized. Her hangups are abnormal. She’s lived in fear a major portion of her life, up to the point where I married her. But the fear after years of experience continued for understandable reasons after marriage, which is not up for discussion. Don’t mess around in relationships joined before God and man.
We’ve both already gone through and plan to continue our journey together in the Catholic Church with our spiritual director, new found friends and a family that is just now discovering our new faith. I’m a revert and have seen more that the average. Even went to the seminary. That’s why it gets offensive when Catholics suddenly get a Saint syndrome mind to start giving unsolicited advice. No one asked for it. My question was truly out of curiosity. But I know from experience on this board that questions always draw out the unstable, hard of heart, well advised and whatever. The pill might be something she may need to use if it is in fact not a sin. Her hormones are off and I believe that most of her current anxieties are caused from the TL. But she’s afraid to even think about it because all surgeries have risks. But as long as she is fearful I can’t do anything for her except pray and bear through it with her.
LOL. My goodness, what’s wrong with people. Having a user name on a Catholic answer board does not make you either an expert or a spiritual director. If you are an expert you ought to ask if the imagined patient desires help first.
Prayers for you too. Don’t let my little lecture get you down, just trying to give wiser advice. Stay out of people’s relationships when they don’t open it up for advice. I made myself perfectly clear about my topic. Don’t read more into than is necessary. My wife’s medical advice is between her and the doctor and spiritual director/confessor. Conversion is a life experience, not an over night success.
PAX
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Reuben_J
Guest
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