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Matthew_Holford
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The argument’s about the proper use of liturgical colours; not the meaning of words.
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otjm
Guest
Roses are red, violets are blue…
There is no definition that nails down with enough specificity exactly what “Rose” is and exactly what “pink” is. Rose is obviously not a flaming red; and “hot pink” is probably a bit over the edge, but having seen more than a couple of rose vestments, some of them were farther to the pink end, and some had more red in them, I can understand how people might call them pink.
And to top it off, some people are somewhat to seriously color blind and could not tell the difference. Others, who don’t know the official name the Church uses for the color (which itself has various acceptible shades) call it pink. We can correct them as to the proper name, but when it looks like pink, they are probably going to call it pink.
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Matthew_Holford
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I know that it’s difficult to define different colours/hues/shades. You only have to observe my wife and me when choosing colours for decorating. But, as to answering the OP then pink isn’t an approved liturgical colour. As rose isn’t mandatory and is only used on two days out of the year IMO it’s probably best avoided anyway.
As for colour blindness there is a common misconception there. The overwhelming majority of people with colour blindness can’t distinguish between two colours when they’re together. Most people who are colour blind can’t distinguish red and green. Show them red and they know it’s red; show them green and they know it’s green; put green and red together and they can’t tell them apart.
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OraLabora
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Haha, I’m inclined to agree. I honestly couldn’t tell the difference myself.Pink by any other name is still pink.
Maybe we can sort out the controversy by saying the proper liturgical colour for Gaudete and Laetare Sundays is “fuschia”
(I had to look that up… I had no idea what colour “fuschia” really was…)
Interestingly, in French, there is no word for “pink”. Pink in French is “rose”. Rose in French is “rose”. What’s Latin for pink and rose? Maybe that’s where the confusion comes from, maybe Latin has no word for pink either.
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Digitonomy
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I assume that’s the case. In order to prove a difference between pink and rose, one must resort to English. Since the rules are written in Latin, one can’t really argue that rose is licit, but pink is illicit. Instead, one can only say that some shades and hues of pink/rose are more appropriate than others, using prudential judgment.
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malphono
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I could be wrong, but from what I can tell, I seem to think that the French usage derives directly from the Latin.
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Phemie
Guest
The word used in Latin is “rosaceus” or “rosaceo” depending on where you find your Latin GIRM. If you put that through an online translator you get “Made from roses” or “made from rose oil”. If you try to translate “pink” into Latin you get nothing.Haha, I’m inclined to agree. I honestly couldn’t tell the difference myself.
Maybe we can sort out the controversy by saying the proper liturgical colour for Gaudete and Laetare Sundays is “fuschia”
(I had to look that up… I had no idea what colour “fuschia” really was…)
Interestingly, in French, there is no word for “pink”. Pink in French is “rose”. Rose in French is “rose”. What’s Latin for pink and rose? Maybe that’s where the confusion comes from, maybe Latin has no word for pink either.
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malphono
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Rose as a liturgical color is rather like wine: e.g. a Côtes de Provence rosé has a very pale color while a Costière de Nîmes rosé has a deep hue. Both are rosé but neither is exactly “pink” in the common English (at least North American English) sense. If I ran across a wine classified as a rosé that fit the common English “pink” idea, I’d probably run out of the wine shop screaming. Same as for a “pink” vestment.Haha, I’m inclined to agree. I honestly couldn’t tell the difference myself.
Maybe we can sort out the controversy by saying the proper liturgical colour for Gaudete and Laetare Sundays is “fuschia”
(I had to look that up… I had no idea what colour “fuschia” really was…)
Interestingly, in French, there is no word for “pink”. Pink in French is “rose”. Rose in French is “rose”. What’s Latin for pink and rose? Maybe that’s where the confusion comes from, maybe Latin has no word for pink either.
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Like
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SimonDodd
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A simple solution suggests itself: the priest could announce that the parish will celebrate “breast cancer awareness” on… the third Sunday of Advent and the fourth Sunday of Lent.
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stormy99
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**I’ll take #4 since it’s getting cold where I live right now…Four possibilites:
A white chasuble was washed with something red;
A well intentioned but liturgically unaware relative or wealthy parish member made it for and/or gave it to the Priest;
It was really rose but bad lighting made it appear pink.
Advent started really early this year.
stormy**
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Acolythus_sum
Guest
…Black should be used for funerals…
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Matthew_Holford
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White if it’s a child; even in pre-Vatican II days it was white for a child. In some places, e.g. England & Wales, and some others, violet and white can be used.
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Cat
Guest
Perhaps the priest has a tender heart because of personal experience with someone who is suffering from breast cancer. Love covers a multitude of sins.
IMO, it would be more effective, not to mention more liturgically correct, if Father wore a pink ribbon on his everyday cassock or clerical garb outside of Mass. He would not have to limit himself to certain days or months that have been declared by Someone Out There as “Breast Cancer Awareness Day/Month.” He could wear the pink ribbon everyday.
Father could also use pink ribbon magnetics on his car, and fill his office and personal quarters with various pink ribbon reminders. There are lots of ways he could raise awareness without violating Mass rubrics in such a flagrant way.
Of course, IMHO, the very BEST way that Father could help Catholics to be better stewards when it comes to breast cancer awareness is to do a little research and inform his parishioners on an ongoing basis of organizations that they can donate money to that are NOT involved with embryonic stem cell research, abortion rights, or other activities that are sinful. E.g., Even though the Susan Komen Foundation does admirable work raising funds for breast cancer research and treatments, it is not an organization that Catholics should be donating time or money to because of assocation with other organizations. Here’s a link: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=190104
I’ve also seen directives in our parish bulletin against this organization written by our diocescan Respect Life Director.
But I can understand why Catholics donate to this and other questionable organizations. IMO, it’s very difficult to find organizations that are working to research and treat breast cancer that are NOT associated with sinful practices. We all want to help out women who are suffering from breast cancer, especially since 1 out of 8 of us will one day contract breast cancer–those are very high odds! (If the odds on the lottery were that good, I would play everyday!)
I personally would really appreciate more guidance from the Church in the United States about this issue.
IMO, it would be more effective, not to mention more liturgically correct, if Father wore a pink ribbon on his everyday cassock or clerical garb outside of Mass. He would not have to limit himself to certain days or months that have been declared by Someone Out There as “Breast Cancer Awareness Day/Month.” He could wear the pink ribbon everyday.
Father could also use pink ribbon magnetics on his car, and fill his office and personal quarters with various pink ribbon reminders. There are lots of ways he could raise awareness without violating Mass rubrics in such a flagrant way.
Of course, IMHO, the very BEST way that Father could help Catholics to be better stewards when it comes to breast cancer awareness is to do a little research and inform his parishioners on an ongoing basis of organizations that they can donate money to that are NOT involved with embryonic stem cell research, abortion rights, or other activities that are sinful. E.g., Even though the Susan Komen Foundation does admirable work raising funds for breast cancer research and treatments, it is not an organization that Catholics should be donating time or money to because of assocation with other organizations. Here’s a link: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=190104
I’ve also seen directives in our parish bulletin against this organization written by our diocescan Respect Life Director.
But I can understand why Catholics donate to this and other questionable organizations. IMO, it’s very difficult to find organizations that are working to research and treat breast cancer that are NOT associated with sinful practices. We all want to help out women who are suffering from breast cancer, especially since 1 out of 8 of us will one day contract breast cancer–those are very high odds! (If the odds on the lottery were that good, I would play everyday!)
I personally would really appreciate more guidance from the Church in the United States about this issue.
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otjm
Guest
White is acceptable in the US; in fact, I can’t recall a funeral in years where the priest wore black.
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johnnykins
Guest
I had always thought the color for Bishops was Amaranth.
In any event, as a male, I recognize in common parlance only 9 colors: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, white, brown and black.
Violet, puce, magenta, amaranth, lilac etc = purple
Crimson, fuchsia, cranberry, etc = red
Tan, khaki, ecru = brown
you get the drift.
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DCNBILL
Guest
At one Gaudete Sunday Mass I attended up north a rather portly priest came out of the sacristy with a vestment on that made him look like a giant bottle of Pepto Bismol.
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malphono
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It was pepto-pink???At one Gaudete Sunday Mass I attended up north a rather portly priest came out of the sacristy with a vestment on that made him look like a giant bottle of Pepto Bismol.
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otjm
Guest
Oh, that’s abysmal…:newidea:
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jkarp
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