Pioneers, Dieting, Abstinence, Obesity - hard to pin this one down to a title

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DL82

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OK, here’s my rambling explanation.

First up, allow me to introduce (for those who don’t know about it) the Pioneer Total Abstinence Association of the Sacred Heart:
pioneertotal.ie/pioneer/
It’s quite well known in Ireland and Scotland, but doesn’t seem to travel well, maybe a few Irish Americans will have heard of it too.

The basic premise is that you abstain for alcohol for life as a penance.

Most Pioneers are NOT recovering alcoholics. Most abstain as a witness and in reparation for those who do have a problem with alcohol. It’s a perfect example of suffering (through penance)with those who are suffering (from addiction) and rejoicing (in sobriety) with those who are rejoicing (in deliverance from addiction).

OK, now I’m not a Pioneer, and I’m not planning to join. In fact, I don’t know anyone under 50 who is a pioneer these days, though it used to be much bigger as a movement.

My own problem - I am slightly overweight, and have trouble eating the right things sometimes.

I know someone who slimmed down to a healthy weight from over 500lb - she had a genuine food addiction, and did this without surgery or diet pills. The treatment program she started involved admitting an addiction, similar to AA, and completely giving up eating for pleasure. Her diet now is mostly raw fruit and vegetables, wheat and red-meat free. The idea is basically to separate eating to survive (which we all have to) from eating for pleasure, and give the latter up completely. She knows if she says yes to ‘just one’ chocolate bar or whatever, like an alcoholic, this will lead to a binge, so she doesn’t do it AT ALL. This is not a diet or weight loss plan, it is a whole of life approach.

That said, the diet is very restrictive, she’ll go out to a restaurant with friends and bring a bag of shredded carrots to munch on while everyone else is eating. It’s a serious solution for people with a serious problem.

I suggested this plan to my doctor and he said it seemed too drastic given that I’m not obese, I’m only a few pounds overweight, and can control my diet without such extreme measures.

HOWEVER - and this is the main point - Just as alcoholism was a big problem in Ireland at the turn of the 20th century, so obesity is a big problem for our society today. Many people really are addicted to food. So, I’m thinking of offering up a way of eating based on the one designed for people with real food addictions as a penance. Giving up eating for pleasure for life in solidarity with those who really do have a problem.

I wanted opinions on this. Does it make sense to you? What do you think? Too extreme? I suppose my only real concern with such a diet would be that I’m a single guy who might want to get married one day (on the other hand, I might be called to become a Carthusian monk, in which case I’d be eating mostly a raw vegan diet anyhow) and one of my greatest ‘selling points’ as a husband is that I’m a really good cook. I don’t know how many women would be happy for me to cook for them and then sit down to a bowl of raw celery myself. I don’t know if I could even live like that. If your husband or wife came home and said that was how he/she wanted to live from now on, how would you react?

Penance is always easier done together. Anyone else feel called to this kind of sacrifice?
 
well we are forbidden by forum rules for giving medical advice so we won’t go there, but if you are asking for spirituality reflection on this topic, Matt Talbott is the obvious person who comes to mind.

not every obese person has a genuine addiction to food, those that do will probably not regain a state of health until they go beyond diet and deal with the addiction, and a 12 step process is one proven way to do that.

there are also church-based programs for dealing with issues that contribute to over-eating, the spirituality of food, what monastics may refer to as “the food thought”, Light Weigh is for Catholics, other non-Catholic denoms have such programs as well. Since it is well documented that having a support group does aid in losing and maintaining weight loss (i.e. Weight Watchers, Tops) they will probably work well for some people. Overeaters Anonymous is the secular approach to the group support and has some aspects of a 12 step program.

are you proposing a church sponsored program? do you know if your parish or diocese supports something similar already (Light Weigh for instance)?

the classic Christian spirituality deals with overeating as a spiritual issue especially as I say with the monastics. One good modern guide is Tools for the Spiritual Life by Margaret Funk OSB, and she addresses specifically “the food thought” in the context of “thoughts” that impede spiritual progress, those thoughts being based in temptations of the flesh.

and yes I do remember Pioneers from my youth, but even back then the were waining.

do I think there is a spiritual benefit in combining proper eating for weight loss and maintenance of health with proper practice of prayer and so forth, yes I do. Do I think a do-it-yourself approach is the best spiritually and practically, no I do not. The church has traditional guidelines for fasting, which should be the first approach, and nothing more stringent should be adopted w/o spiritual direction. Medical science has guidelines for proper diet (which change through time as more is discovered about nutrition) and nobody should go beyond that w/o guidance from a physician.
 
DL82 said:
…I wanted opinions on this. Does it make sense to you? What do you think? Too extreme?
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Sounds extreme. As Annie noted, we can’t give medical advice on this forum, (and your doctor already gave you his opinion.) On the matter of spiritual fasting, I suggest you also discuss your plans for pennace with a good spiritual director who knows you. Seek a spiritual director who can see you face to face and assess if your penance and spiritual practices interfear with your ability to perform your duties in life.

Since you are discerning marriage, I will say that a perpetual fast is highly likely interfear with family life. Family meals can nourish more than just the body. As a wife, I’d be offended if my husband refused to take pleasure in healthy meals that I prepared. There is a time for fasting and a time for feasting. Weddings and holidays with family are times for feasting.

Avoid extremes. What you propose sounds extreme.
 
My doctor’s advice against this plan of action wasn’t what I’d call ‘medical’ advice, but was more social or even spiritual. It was along the lines that eating should be enjoyable, so he would only tell someone to completely give up eating for pleasure as a last resort. It didn’t seem like professional advice, more his personal view that I was maybe being too hard on myself and need to get my minor weight problem into perspective against the much more serious psychological issues of my former 500lb acquaintance.

I accept that I DON’T have a problem with weight on that scale, just as most Pioneers don’t have a problem with alcohol, but choose to give it up anyway.

At the end of the day, if this is what I feel called to do, and if doing it makes it less likely that I’ll marry, then that’s just one more piece of evidence in the ‘monk’ column and less in the ‘marry’ one.
 
DL82 said:
…At the end of the day, if this is what I feel called to do, and if doing it makes it less likely that I’ll marry, then that’s just one more piece of evidence in the ‘monk’ column and less in the ‘marry’ one.
Click to expand...
Monks have spiritual advisors and vows of obedience to legitimate spiritual authorities. I recall reading one mystic saint writing that despite her mystical experience that told her to do one thing, she choose to do what her confessor/spiritual director told her, then later had another mystical experience telling her she made the right choice to follow her confessor/spiritual director. There’s much less chance of being deceived when one humbly obeys legitimate spiritual authority.

If you feel called to do this penance, discuss it with a good spiritual director. Rather than making a permanent vow of abstaining from eating for pleasure, consider a shorter duration then re-assess if God still calls you to do it.

Remember, spiritual pride is tricky. You might take pleasure in abstaining from eating for pleasure. If that happens, then in the end, you are still taking pleasure your diet, which is exactly what you were trying not to do.
 
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