Pious Pelagianism

  • Thread starter Thread starter godisgood77
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

godisgood77

Guest
Wow… May God continue to bless our Holy Father! Papa Francis!! - you continue to inspire…

*I share with you two concerns. One is the Pelagian current that there is in the Church at this moment. There are some restorationist groups. I know some, it fell upon me to receive them in Buenos Aires. And one feels as if one goes back 60 years! Before the Council… One feels in 1940… An anecdote, just to illustrate this, it is not to laugh at it, I took it with respect, but it concerns me; when I was elected, I received a letter from one of these groups, and they said: “Your Holiness, we offer you this spiritual treasure: 3,525 rosaries.” Why don’t they say, ‘we pray for you, we ask…’, but this thing of counting… And these groups return to practices and to disciplines that I lived through - not you, because you are not old - to disciplines, to things that in that moment took place, but not now, they do not exist today…

The second [concern] is for a Gnostic current. Those Pantheisms… Both are elite currents, but this one is of a more educated elite… I heard of a superior general that prompted the sisters of her congregation to not pray in the morning, but to spiritually bathe in the cosmos, things like that… They concern me because they ignore the incarnation! And the Son of God became our flesh, the Word was made flesh, and in Latin America we have flesh abundantly [de tirar al techo]! What happens to the poor, their pains, this is our flesh…*

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/06/pope-on-traditional-groups-pelagians.html
 
The comments of His Holiness cannot be seperated from the fact that he is a Jesuit. As has been pointed out to us, the fact that he is a Jesuit defines who he is, what he does and how he speaks and teaches.

Jesuits see Christ as incarnational, very human, someone with whom we can talk and converse as if they were a close friend or a brother right next to us. Jesus is someone we can go to for help in a very real, human way. They are not wrong in this view and every comment he makes has to be considered in the context of him being a Jesuit.

Personally, I wish Rorate would just go away. They do more harm than good and articles like this are a perfect example.

-Tim-
 
I read the article and it made me sad. I have been very impressed with this pope. but I don’t think that the offering of rosaries for him, was a bad thing. I didn’t understand what the complaint was about. Offering rosaries for him, seemed like a very sweet thing to do.
 
marimagi said:
I read the article and it made me sad. I have been very impressed with this pope. but I don’t think that the offering of rosaries for him, was a bad thing. I didn’t understand what the complaint was about. Offering rosaries for him, seemed like a very sweet thing to do.
Click to expand...
It made me sad too. In fact, I was stunned that he would have said something like that.

Maybe it isn’t an accurate translation of what he in fact did say. I hope.
 
marimagi said:
I read the article and it made me sad. I have been very impressed with this pope. but I don’t think that the offering of rosaries for him, was a bad thing. I didn’t understand what the complaint was about. Offering rosaries for him, seemed like a very sweet thing to do.
Click to expand...
I don’t think it was the saying of rosaries he was objecting to so much as the quantifying of them. He said himself (if the translation is reliable) that he wondered why people couldn’t just say “We offered the rosary for you” rather than “We offered 3,957 rosaries for you.” He’s got a good point–prayer should not be offered out of a desire for quantity so much as quality. As it’s been said, one Hail Mary said sincerely by one humble soul is far more efficacious than thousands of rosaries said for the sake of saying them. I’m not saying that all who offer rosaries as part of the SSPX rosary crusades have ill intentions, and I’m sure that’s not what the Holy Father is saying here either–rather, he seems to be emphasizing a need for prayer to be a means to the end of union with God, rather than an end of itself.

I agree with the above point that Rorate does more harm than good with things like this–rather than evaluating the Holy Father’s remarks fairly they immediately jump to conclusions, or at least the commenters seem to. It’s sad that we can’t give even the Pope himself the benefit of the doubt or try to see what he might be saying, rather than just piling on.

-ACEGC
 
catholicworldreport.com/Blog/2319/report_pope_francis_acknowledges_curia_gay_lobby_expresses_concern_over_pelagian_traditionalists.aspx
UPDATE: The president of the Confederación Latinoamericana y Caribeña de Religiosas y Religiosos (CLAR), the group with which Pope Francis met last week, has released a statement apologizing for the release of the text in question. The statement, in Spanish, can be read here; Rorate Caeli has an English translation:

The Presidency of CLAR deeply regrets the publication of a text referring to the conversation kept with the Holy Father Francis in the course of a meeting on June 6. A conversation that took place prompted by questions made by those present to the Pope.

In this circumstance, no record of the conversation was made, but soon afterwards a summary of the same was made based on the recollections of those present. This summary, that does not include the questions posed to the Holy Father, was destined to the personal memory of the participants, and not for any reason meant for publication, something for which, on the other hand, no authorization was requested.

It is clear that, on this basis, the singular expressions contained in the text cannot be attributed to the Holy Father with certainty, but only their general sense.

The Presidency of CLAR deeply regrets what has happened and the commotion it may have caused.

Sister Mercedes Leticia Casas Sanchez, FSpS - President

Fr. Gabriel Naranjo Salazar, CM, - General Secretary
Click to expand...
 
To the 2 posters above, thank you very much. I feel MUCH better.
 
It is clear that, on this basis, the singular expressions contained in the text cannot be attributed to the Holy Father with certainty, but only their general sense.
Click to expand...
in other words he didn’t say it 🤷
 
Can someone describe what Rorate Caeli is? It looks like a blog of some sort?
 
I see nothing wrong with telling the Holy Father the number of Rosaries that were offered for him and his intentions. We used to have something called a “Spiritual Bouquet” years ago which was similar.
 
I agree with the above point that Rorate does more harm than good with things like this–rather than evaluating the Holy Father’s remarks fairly they immediately jump to conclusions, or at least the commenters seem to. It’s sad that we can’t give even the Pope himself the benefit of the doubt or try to see what he might be saying, rather than just piling on.
Click to expand...
I agree that places like Rorate (and others) do more harm than good.
 
Lormar said:
I agree that places like Rorate (and others) do more harm than good.
Click to expand...
I have to agree. 👍

But returning to the topic itself, my two main thoughts are:

(a) the quote may not be accurate;

(b) if it is (even partly so) the Holy Father may be speaking of those who cross a line with their pious deeds, and pass judgment hastily. (For example, I remember reading about a group - I forget whom - who offered 1,000 Masses in reparation for the “sins” of John Paul II.)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top