Pipe Organs

[mercygate]

Our pastor at St.Pauls in Jax wants to get a Pipe Organ. The money is the big obsticle.

Yeah. It’s HUGE. And it’s not just a one-time expense. They cost a fortune to maintain. Of course, it is worth every nickel. But if you don’t have the nickels . . . welll . . . .

But there’s nothing like the sound of a pipe organ shaking the pillars of a big stone church . . . The pipes are only part of the instrument; the building itself, its reverberation time, is part of the instrument as well.

As for the OP – maintaining a pipe organ in Florida would be a major production.

Did you know that when the organ reached the peak of its development in the 18th century, it was the most complex technological apparatus of its day?

 

[Cluny]

Some years back I read in MUSIC (the magazine of the American Guild of Organists) that most trained organists just hated to play in Catholic churches for three reasons:

1. Hymnw and other music selections were terrible.
2. Instruments were inadequate or in poor repair or both.
3. Not properly compensated for the work expected of them.

That’s why so many parishes have left-footed organists who play with mittens on their hands (as Thomas Day said in WHY CATHOLICS CAN’T SING).

 

[mercygate]

Some years back I read in MUSIC (the magazine of the American Guild of Organists) that most trained organists just hated to play in Catholic churches for three reasons:

1. Hymnw and other music selections were terrible.
2. Instruments were inadequate or in poor repair or both.
3. Not properly compensated for the work expected of them.

That’s why so many parishes have left-footed organists who play with mittens on their hands (as Thomas Day said in WHY CATHOLICS CAN’T SING).

I wish you were not right. We had a gifted organist (but a bad organ) – nevertheless, the new pastor didn’t want all that “elitist” and “old fashioned” music and wouldn’t let her set foot in the loft . . . She quit.

 

[Merkel]

Huge voice coils can move FAR more air than a 64 foot diaphone. I think if top-quality, custom organs were not so maligned by those who have never heard one that we might hear more good organ music in our churches.

 

[mercygate]

Huge voice coils can move FAR more air than a 64 foot diaphone. I think if top-quality, custom organs were not so maligned by those who have never heard one that we might hear more good organ music in our churches.

As a lover of pipe organs (I was an undergraduate at The University of Michigan, where the pipe organ nearly reached the level of a religion in the 50 years of Marilyn Mason’s career there), I must reluctantly confess that you are correct. The improvement in electronic instruments has been phenomenal. We have a dinky little “Clavinova” in our parish, and the thing actually makes pretty good sound – not enough for our space but in the right setting . . . .

 

[jilly4ski]

Yes, the organ is a great insturment. I agree with some of the other posters, that the organ is not promoted within the church. New (rich) suburban churches didn’t even bother to install an organ. I grew up not hearing the organ because of this.

Luckily, I went to a catholic university with a great organ program with some great young organists. I am only a mediocre musician at best, and a terrible organist (as i only had one year of lessons), but since i graduated and moved, i have no access to the organ, and it doesn’t seem like the cathederal here, hardly promotes its use much less have the organist offer lessons for extra money or anything like that. So I don’t even have a place to pratice much less learn more about playing it. It is a sad state for the king of instruments to be so shunned.

I hope the organ makes it back into Catholic worship.

 

[Cluny]

We had a gifted organist (but a bad organ) – nevertheless, the new pastor didn’t want all that “elitist” and “old fashioned” music and wouldn’t let her set foot in the loft . . . She quit.

---

Sorry your organist was mistreated.

However, I will point out that the professional ethics of music directors and organists require them to tender their resignations upon the arrival of a new pastor in anybody’s church.

 

[mercygate]

We had a gifted organist (but a bad organ) – nevertheless, the new pastor didn’t want all that “elitist” and “old fashioned” music and wouldn’t let her set foot in the loft . . . She quit.

---

Sorry your organist was mistreated.

However, I will point out that the professional ethics of music directors and organists require them to tender their resignations upon the arrival of a new pastor in anybody’s church.

She did that. He rejected it.

 

[Sarabande]

Many years ago our pipe organ was rebuilt by a parishioner. He did a nice job but it took him nearly 4 years. During that time our music ministry did everything in its power to ensure it would be never used again. They treated our organist poorly (she is Protestant) they would not allow her to train others, their music selections, etc.

This situation is, unfortunately, not unique. I’ve heard others very similar to it. And we wonder why people don’t learn how to play the organ or like the organ!!!

Some people recently gathered some money for a concert grand piano to replace the Yamaha all-in-one. The proposal was accepted so long as money was also raised to tune-up and ready our pipe organ for use! I just got back from a visit. There was a crew of three ALREADY working on the organ!!! YES!

Having a new pastor makes ALL the difference.

That is wonderful!!! And so true… a pastor truly does make all the difference.

 

[Sarabande]

Some years back I read in MUSIC (the magazine of the American Guild of Organists) that most trained organists just hated to play in Catholic churches for three reasons:

1. Hymnw and other music selections were terrible.
2. Instruments were inadequate or in poor repair or both.
3. Not properly compensated for the work expected of them.

That’s why so many parishes have left-footed organists who play with mittens on their hands (as Thomas Day said in WHY CATHOLICS CAN’T SING).

1 and 3 are usually the two major reasons for the good organists that I know. It’s unfortunate. Many, especially those of a certain generation, were pushed out of Catholic parishes because the pastors didn’t want the “elitist” music. They went to Protestant churches. We kind of did it to ourselves - this lost era of good organists and in many ways (depending on how you look at it) of high art sacred music.

 

[Merkel]

As a lover of pipe organs (I was an undergraduate at The University of Michigan, where the pipe organ nearly reached the level of a religion in the 50 years of Marilyn Mason’s career there), I must reluctantly confess that you are correct. The improvement in electronic instruments has been phenomenal. We have a dinky little “Clavinova” in our parish, and the thing actually makes pretty good sound – not enough for our space but in the right setting . . . .

I once stood next to a voice coil that was 12’ in diameter. It laid horizontally and drove what’s called a “shaker table” – a piece of equipment used to simulate environments that other equipment must be able to survive. This voice coil (driven by an entire room of amplifiers) was able to simulate the vibrations (and hence the sounds) of a Saturn V rocket engine at lift-off. It was scary even with extreme ear protection.

You can do a lot with electromechanical stuff.

 

[DaveBj]

I very much agree…

Although I would say that the very best custom electronic organs with HUGE voice coils (speakers) and banks of HUGE amplifiers are nearly as good as the best pipe organs and better than many others. Of course they don’t look as cool either but they are far cheaper to maintain.

I have to agree. The untrained ear (which is what the vast majority of us have) can’t really tell the difference. And there is one feature that I believe is a major benefit over pipe organs–they have an earphone jack so the organist can practice without bothering anyone else.

DaveBj

 

[brotherhrolf]

We never referred to the old E-lectronic organ as a toaster but always as the “Hoover” - as in vacuum cleaner.

Wow, We must be very fortunate here in Baton Rouge (courtesy of LSU’s School of Music?), Skilled organists are not that rare here. I have met most of them as a chorister through the years - all denominations.

I think it needs to be remembered that the technologic organs are subject to the same groans and pains of those E-lectronic organs of the 60s. The jump from vacuum tubes to printed circuitry in twenty years…You may have a state-of-the-art electronic organ that sounds “like a pipe organ” but what happens twenty years down the tline when the technology is a quantum leap different? Penny wise and pound foolish?

In addition, would I be off base saying that each pipe organ has its own “voice”.

 

[m134e5]

I have to agree. The untrained ear (which is what the vast majority of us have) can’t really tell the difference. And there is one feature that I believe is a major benefit over pipe organs–they have an earphone jack so the organist can practice without bothering anyone else.

DaveBj

People can practice on pipe organs without bothering anyone else…just don’t pull out any of the stops, or just pull out one of the soft ones. An electric organ may sound pretty close- but it doesn’t sound the same. Also- I can’t really explain this, but there’s just something special about the real thing. Organists should plan to practice when there aren’t a lot of people in the church- and stick to the same time, so the regulars who come to pray know that they’re going to get some background music if they go at certain times.

 

[bubba451]

Heck, if our Choirmaster would tell us when he was practicing, I’d go listen just for my own selfish pleasure…

 

[Merkel]

I have to agree. The untrained ear (which is what the vast majority of us have) can’t really tell the difference. And there is one feature that I believe is a major benefit over pipe organs–they have an earphone jack so the organist can practice without bothering anyone else.

DaveBj

Untrained or not…

 

[Merkel]

We never referred to the old E-lectronic organ as a toaster but always as the “Hoover” - as in vacuum cleaner.

Wow, We must be very fortunate here in Baton Rouge (courtesy of LSU’s School of Music?), Skilled organists are not that rare here. I have met most of them as a chorister through the years - all denominations.

I think it needs to be remembered that the technologic organs are subject to the same groans and pains of those E-lectronic organs of the 60s. The jump from vacuum tubes to printed circuitry in twenty years…You may have a state-of-the-art electronic organ that sounds “like a pipe organ” but what happens twenty years down the tline when the technology is a quantum leap different? Penny wise and pound foolish?

In addition, would I be off base saying that each pipe organ has its own “voice”.

A great deal of it is simply a matter of size.

Screw-together a good synthesizer, amps and speakers and you’ll have FAR MORE than the type of gear you are talking about.

 

[Sarabande]

People can practice on pipe organs without bothering anyone else…just don’t pull out any of the stops, or just pull out one of the soft ones. An electric organ may sound pretty close- but it doesn’t sound the same. Also- I can’t really explain this, but there’s just something special about the real thing. Organists should plan to practice when there aren’t a lot of people in the church- and stick to the same time, so the regulars who come to pray know that they’re going to get some background music if they go at certain times.

Most organists I know practice in the evenings when no one is around. Once in a while they’ll practice during the day, which is always a treat, but on the whole theirs is a “lonely” profession - figuratively and sometimes literally.

 

[brotherhrolf]

A great deal of it is simply a matter of size.

Screw-together a good synthesizer, amps and speakers and you’ll have FAR MORE than the type of gear you are talking about.

We did have that at one point. A Yamaha SynClavier with amps and speakers. Thanks but no thanks. I could tell the difference. It may have something to do with the fact I have been a big fan of synthezied music since Walter/Wendy Carlos issued “Switched on Bach” back in the Dark Ages when I was in high school. DW’s term for synthesized music is “whop-whop” music.

BTW Thierry Mechler from Lyons, France was the organist for our organ’s inaugural concert. I’ll never forget that concert the longest day I live. The organ was played at unbelieveably loud volumes and there was no distortion and it was not painful on one’s ears. I can’t say the same for amps and speakers. Sorry, I am an old fogey.

 

[cspb56]

As an organist I certainly prefer the pipe organ! However, cost well over $100,000.00 these days (and that is a small organ of 2 manuals, pedals and not more then 10 ranks of pipes) and sometimes the building itself make it prohibative. There are 2 electronic organ builders that have very good sounding organs ranging from $40,000-100,000 (even more if you have the money) that are as close to a real pipe organ as possible with todays technology. I know of a couple new churches in my area that can’t afford a pipe organ but they built the building to accomodate one some day. Let’s hope some generous benfactor come forward for them.