Pius VII: "America has done more for the cause of Christianity than the most powerful nations of Christendom"

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Pope Pius VII said this with regards to the First Barbary War, which was a war early in America’s history in which we fought against the Berber Muslim states of North Africa. The Pope said this of course because, as is historically routine, the Muslims in this region were kidnapping, maiming, and killing Christians, defiling and raping their women, and holding their children for ransom. America’s interest in this war however had nothing to do with that issue, but about its own interests… Yet in fighting this war, the United States of America did a great deed for the Christians of southern Europe and northern Africa.

What strikes my curiosity is how similar this conflict was to both the Crusades and the modern wars in the middle east - all of which were essentially sparked by Islamic terrorism one way or another. Even if America’s interest isn’t really fighting Muslim terrorism but procuring something else, one cannot deny that terrorism was at least the enabler allowing us to justify going over there to the public. Likewise, America’s interest in the First Barbary War was not fighting Muslim terrorists but rather protecting the safety and interests of Americans. Even so, Pope Pius VII approved, and enthusiastically so.

What is my point? Why in the world is the prudential judgement of Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI disproportionately condemning of America’s wars in the middle east? At best, we are doing much for Christians by attempting to rid the region of Muslim extremism, of people who wake up each morning wanting nothing more than to kill Christians, similar to the Crusades which were endorsed by good Popes of the past. At worst, we have no interest in doing the aforementioned, but may have the same result anyway, just like the war which Pius VII, in his wisdom, declared did more for the cause of Christianity than the most powerful nations of Christendom had done in ages.

Why does it seem to me, that modern Christians are so vehemently opposed to warfare without giving the due consideration necessary to determine whether or not it is just? It seems as though no matter what, Christians in the current age are always going to condemn violence, inherently, and propose instead a false peace which demands the refusal to take up arms even in the face of grave evil. The modernist notion of peace is not the peace of which Jesus spoke. The modernist notion of peace instead is simply the cooperation with evil, and a willingness to tolerate grave injustices instead of fighting them. Bear with me, brothers and sisters, and realize how this can be used to Satan’s advantage. If good and Holy men proclaim pacifism as their doctrine, there is no threat to evil. Satan loves tolerance and pacifism, because for the last 50 years or more they have allowed a great multitude of evil forces to wreak havoc on the land unchecked.

Mark my words, so long as there is sin on this Earth, no Christian can ever advocate a strict policy of pacifism in good conscience, because in doing so he demands that evil not be dealt with, but ignored or cooperated with, or worse, welcomed. The true desire for peace is not that which refuses violence and instead seeks to normalize evil and injustice as a mere difference to be tolerated, but instead it recognizes that true peace only comes through Jesus Christ, and only lasts in the Kingdom of Heaven. Only by ridding evil from this world will there ever be true peace. Alas, only Christ alone can remove all evil once and for all, and this we are promised he will do. But that doesn’t render our time here meaningless and futile.

There is nothing in Church doctrine that condemns fighting or warfare. For over a millennium good Christians have gone to war, good Christians have claimed land, good Christians have fought for the strong, for the weak, for the healthy and sick, for the rich and the poor, but most importantly good Christians have always fought for that which is just. The Lord Jesus Christ does not frown upon the just war, nor does he spite the valiant and virtuous soldier. On the contrary, fighting for the Kingdom of God brings glory to His Name and to the souls of those who perish in such an endeavour. War is not intrinsically evil, nor is violence. Remeber the chant in Exodus: “The Lord is a Warrior; the Lord is his name.”
 
Innocent Muslims did not carry out terrorist attacks, neither did Saddam Hussein. Killing hundreds of thousands and displacing millions is in no way a just war under any circumstances, even more so when the war is waged against those who did not attack us. Remember, most of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia.
 
Innocent Muslims did not carry out terrorist attacks, neither did Saddam Hussein. Killing hundreds of thousands and displacing millions is in no way a just war under any circumstances, even more so when the war is waged against those who did not attack us. Remember, most of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia.
We are not fighting innocent Muslims. In fact, the innocent Muslims are fighting on our side against the terrorists.

Have we really killed “hundreds of thousands” and displaced “millions?” Even if we did, quantity killed and displaced does not make a war just or unjust. You can kill hundreds of thousands and still be just, under pretty simple circumstances. World War II comes to mind, in which our involvement is widely considered just for obvious reasons, even though we actually did kill hundreds of thousands.

Also, this just popped in the news:

telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9762745/Christianity-close-to-extinction-in-Middle-East.html
What good timing.

Our love affair with liberalism and progressivism runs so deep that we struggle to ever, under realistic circumstances, see any use of violence as just. We have a misled desire for a false peace. We would rather DO NOTHING, or appease the desires of evil. My generation of males will never become men, only timid, cowardly women.
 
Charlemagne was a conquering emperor, whose life certainly wasn’t pure. But he had the support of the Pope in his time. He is also Blessed in the Catholic Church, thus we know, it is undisputed that he is in Heaven. He launched many military campaigns, as did St. Constantine, who is also in Heaven, using force when necessary to preserve and install justice. Both of these great men are in Heaven, the highest achievement any living person can hope to achieve in their life. We know they are in Heaven. We do not know if Gandhi, a pacifist who inspired many philosophies of the modernist liberals, is in heaven.
 
Pope The Pope said this of course because, as is historically routine, the Muslims in this region were kidnapping, maiming, and killing Christians, defiling and raping their women, and …
So the Christians were all men, and the owned women?
 
Innocent Muslims did not carry out terrorist attacks, neither did Saddam Hussein. Killing hundreds of thousands and displacing millions is in no way a just war under any circumstances, even more so when the war is waged against those who did not attack us. Remember, most of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia.
Strangely enough, Iraq had been much friendlier to the Christians than now. That’s when Saddam had Aziz, a Catholic, as one of his ministers. No more.
 
So the Christians were all men, and the owned women?
“Their women” was and still is a common way of denoting the women of a particular group. The same expression has been used of the men of a particular group, e.g. “The Germans made war against the Polish and killed their men”. But I’m guessing you knew that already.
 
Pope Pius VII said this with regards to the First Barbary War, which was a war early in America’s history in which we fought against the Berber Muslim states of North Africa. The Pope said this of course because, as is historically routine, the Muslims in this region were kidnapping, maiming, and killing Christians, defiling and raping their women, and holding their children for ransom. America’s interest in this war however had nothing to do with that issue, but about its own interests… Yet in fighting this war, the United States of America did a great deed for the Christians of southern Europe and northern Africa.

What strikes my curiosity is how similar this conflict was to both the Crusades and the modern wars in the middle east - all of which were essentially sparked by Islamic terrorism one way or another. Even if America’s interest isn’t really fighting Muslim terrorism but procuring something else, one cannot deny that terrorism was at least the enabler allowing us to justify going over there to the public. Likewise, America’s interest in the First Barbary War was not fighting Muslim terrorists but rather protecting the safety and interests of Americans. Even so, Pope Pius VII approved, and enthusiastically so.

What is my point? Why in the world is the prudential judgement of Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI disproportionately condemning of America’s wars in the middle east? At best, we are doing much for Christians by attempting to rid the region of Muslim extremism, of people who wake up each morning wanting nothing more than to kill Christians, similar to the Crusades which were endorsed by good Popes of the past. At worst, we have no interest in doing the aforementioned, but may have the same result anyway, just like the war which Pius VII, in his wisdom, declared did more for the cause of Christianity than the most powerful nations of Christendom had done in ages.

Mark my words, so long as there is sin on this Earth, no Christian can ever advocate a strict policy of pacifism in good conscience, because in doing so he demands that evil not be dealt with, but ignored or cooperated with, or worse, welcomed. The true desire for peace is not that which refuses violence and instead seeks to normalize evil and injustice as a mere difference to be tolerated, but instead it recognizes that true peace only comes through Jesus Christ, and only lasts in the Kingdom of Heaven. Only by ridding evil from this world will there ever be true peace. Alas, only Christ alone can remove all evil once and for all, and this we are promised he will do. But that doesn’t render our time here meaningless and futile.

There is nothing in Church doctrine that condemns fighting or warfare. For over a millennium good Christians have gone to war, good Christians have claimed land, good Christians have fought for the strong, for the weak, for the healthy and sick, for the rich and the poor, but most importantly good Christians have always fought for that which is just. The Lord Jesus Christ does not frown upon the just war, nor does he spite the valiant and virtuous soldier. On the contrary, fighting for the Kingdom of God brings glory to His Name and to the souls of those who perish in such an endeavour. War is not intrinsically evil, nor is violence. Remeber the chant in Exodus: “The Lord is a Warrior; the Lord is his name.”
The Barbary States were countries sponsoring piracy and enslaving, that isn’t actually all that normal and that isn’t terrorism.

The Crusades started over thuggery by the Seljuk Turks, before that Christian and Muslims got along for four centuries. The war in Iraq wasn’t about terrorism, it was about shoddy claims that they had nuclear weapons which many educate people knew was a blatant lie. That leaves a single war in many years.

The US invasion of Iraq has caused massive harm to the Christians there and to a degree elsewhere.

The US has not conducted just wars which is why we are being criticised.

There is a difference between refusing to bomb Dresden and being a strict pacifist.
We are not fighting innocent Muslims. In fact, the innocent Muslims are fighting on our side against the terrorists.

Have we really killed “hundreds of thousands” and displaced “millions?” Even if we did, quantity killed and displaced does not make a war just or unjust. You can kill hundreds of thousands and still be just, under pretty simple circumstances. World War II comes to mind, in which our involvement is widely considered just for obvious reasons, even though we actually did kill hundreds of thousands.

Also, this just popped in the news:

telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9762745/Christianity-close-to-extinction-in-Middle-East.html
What good timing.

Our love affair with liberalism and progressivism runs so deep that we struggle to ever, under realistic circumstances, see any use of violence as just. We have a misled desire for a false peace. We would rather DO NOTHING, or appease the desires of evil. My generation of males will never become men, only timid, cowardly women.
The US has not conducted a just war in either Iraq or Afghanistan
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CollegeStinks:
There is a difference between force when it used when necessary and force because it is the easiest option.
 
Charlemagne was a conquering emperor, whose life certainly wasn’t pure. But he had the support of the Pope in his time. He is also Blessed in the Catholic Church, thus we know, it is undisputed that he is in Heaven. He launched many military campaigns, as did St. Constantine, who is also in Heaven, using force when necessary to preserve and install justice. Both of these great men are in Heaven, the highest achievement any living person can hope to achieve in their life. We know they are in Heaven. We do not know if Gandhi, a pacifist who inspired many philosophies of the modernist liberals, is in heaven.
Your comment implies (at least to me) that they are in Heaven due to their military actions and not despite of their military actions. We need to remember that saint or blessed /=/ never sinned. Also, your comparison to Gandhi isn’t exactly on the level since there are plenty examples of pacifist Catholic saints (such as St. Francis).
 
The Barbary States were countries sponsoring piracy and enslaving, that isn’t actually all that normal and that isn’t terrorism.
Using modern terminology, the Barbary pirates were state sponsored terrorists and the Barbary states were states that sponsored terrorism.
The Crusades started over thuggery by the Seljuk Turks, before that Christian and Muslims got along for four centuries.
Historically inaccurate in regards to Christians and Muslims getting along for four centuries. The ERE was pretty much constantly under attack by the Muslim states until its fall.
The war in Iraq wasn’t about terrorism, it was about shoddy claims that they had nuclear weapons which many educate people knew was a blatant lie. That leaves a single war in many years.
And numerous UN sanction violations (some of which we latter learned involved some of the states against the war).
The US invasion of Iraq has caused massive harm to the Christians there and to a degree elsewhere.

The US has not conducted just wars which is why we are being criticised.
International politics is a lot more complex than what you are implying.
There is a difference between refusing to bomb Dresden and being a strict pacifist.

The US has not conducted a just war in either Iraq or Afghanistan
If by conducted you mean started than I agree. If by conducted you mean how the wars are being waged, I disagree. There’s a difference between the two and one isn’t dependent upon the other.
There is a difference between force when it used when necessary and force because it is the easiest option.
 
The start and conduct of the war has been unjust. When is nation building ever justified and when is bombing that affects civilians ever allowed?
 
“Their women” was and still is a common way of denoting the women of a particular group. The same expression has been used of the men of a particular group, e.g. “The Germans made war against the Polish and killed their men”. But I’m guessing you knew that already.
Common, but wrong; like so many things.
 
Why does it seem to me, that modern Christians are so vehemently opposed to warfare without giving the due consideration necessary to determine whether or not it is just? It seems as though no matter what, Christians in the current age are always going to condemn violence, inherently, and propose instead a false peace which demands the refusal to take up arms even in the face of grave evil. The modernist notion of peace is not the peace of which Jesus spoke. The modernist notion of peace instead is simply the cooperation with evil, and a willingness to tolerate grave injustices instead of fighting them. Bear with me, brothers and sisters, and realize how this can be used to Satan’s advantage. If good and Holy men proclaim pacifism as their doctrine, there is no threat to evil. Satan loves tolerance and pacifism, because for the last 50 years or more they have allowed a great multitude of evil forces to wreak havoc on the land unchecked.
I have a question. Jesus, himself, can send twelve legions of angels to protect anyone he wants. If God has not taken up the sword against his enemies then how do you justify him?
 
Pope Pius VII said this with regards to the First Barbary War, which was a war early in America’s history in which we fought against the Berber Muslim states of North Africa. The Pope said this of course because, as is historically routine, the Muslims in this region were kidnapping, maiming, and killing Christians, defiling and raping their women, and holding their children for ransom. America’s interest in this war however had nothing to do with that issue, but about its own interests… Yet in fighting this war, the United States of America did a great deed for the Christians of southern Europe and northern Africa.

What strikes my curiosity is how similar this conflict was to both the Crusades and the modern wars in the middle east - all of which were essentially sparked by Islamic terrorism one way or another. Even if America’s interest isn’t really fighting Muslim terrorism but procuring something else, one cannot deny that terrorism was at least the enabler allowing us to justify going over there to the public. Likewise, America’s interest in the First Barbary War was not fighting Muslim terrorists but rather protecting the safety and interests of Americans. Even so, Pope Pius VII approved, and enthusiastically so.

What is my point? Why in the world is the prudential judgement of Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI disproportionately condemning of America’s wars in the middle east? At best, we are doing much for Christians by attempting to rid the region of Muslim extremism, of people who wake up each morning wanting nothing more than to kill Christians, similar to the Crusades which were endorsed by good Popes of the past. At worst, we have no interest in doing the aforementioned, but may have the same result anyway, just like the war which Pius VII, in his wisdom, declared did more for the cause of Christianity than the most powerful nations of Christendom had done in ages.

Why does it seem to me, that modern Christians are so vehemently opposed to warfare without giving the due consideration necessary to determine whether or not it is just? It seems as though no matter what, Christians in the current age are always going to condemn violence, inherently, and propose instead a false peace which demands the refusal to take up arms even in the face of grave evil. The modernist notion of peace is not the peace of which Jesus spoke. The modernist notion of peace instead is simply the cooperation with evil, and a willingness to tolerate grave injustices instead of fighting them. Bear with me, brothers and sisters, and realize how this can be used to Satan’s advantage. If good and Holy men proclaim pacifism as their doctrine, there is no threat to evil. Satan loves tolerance and pacifism, because for the last 50 years or more they have allowed a great multitude of evil forces to wreak havoc on the land unchecked.

Mark my words, so long as there is sin on this Earth, no Christian can ever advocate a strict policy of pacifism in good conscience, because in doing so he demands that evil not be dealt with, but ignored or cooperated with, or worse, welcomed. The true desire for peace is not that which refuses violence and instead seeks to normalize evil and injustice as a mere difference to be tolerated, but instead it recognizes that true peace only comes through Jesus Christ, and only lasts in the Kingdom of Heaven. Only by ridding evil from this world will there ever be true peace. Alas, only Christ alone can remove all evil once and for all, and this we are promised he will do. But that doesn’t render our time here meaningless and futile.

There is nothing in Church doctrine that condemns fighting or warfare. For over a millennium good Christians have gone to war, good Christians have claimed land, good Christians have fought for the strong, for the weak, for the healthy and sick, for the rich and the poor, but most importantly good Christians have always fought for that which is just. The Lord Jesus Christ does not frown upon the just war, nor does he spite the valiant and virtuous soldier. On the contrary, fighting for the Kingdom of God brings glory to His Name and to the souls of those who perish in such an endeavour. War is not intrinsically evil, nor is violence. Remeber the chant in Exodus: “The Lord is a Warrior; the Lord is his name.”
This may be the reason why there are quite a few warrior saints.

Merry Christmas
God bless
 
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