Pius XII's Beatification

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Not quite sure if this belongs here or in Catholic News, so mods I leave it to your prudence.

I thought it was interesting that Pope Francis was asked about Pius XII’s sainthood cause and replied with this:

Vatican Insider said:
“The cause is open, I looked into it and no miracle has been found yet. So the process has stalled. We have to respect the reality of this cause. But there’s no miracle and at least one is required for beatification. I can’t think of whether I will beatify him or not.”
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vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/francesco-terra-santa-34376//pag/2/

Thoughts?
 
janeway529 said:
Not quite sure if this belongs here or in Catholic News, so mods I leave it to your prudence.

I thought it was interesting that Pope Francis was asked about Pius XII’s sainthood cause and replied with this:

vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/francesco-terra-santa-34376//pag/2/

Thoughts?
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The requirement used to be 2 miracles, but Pope Francis waived that for John XXIII. Alas, if only Pius XII were a Vatican II Pope, then he would be beatified. All of the Vatican II Popes are Saints, or are going to be. Paul VI is going to be beatified later this year.

Imagine, three Vatican II Popes being Saints! What a glorious and wonderful era in the Church we must be blessed to be living in; an era of great renewal and of a wonderful new springtime in the Church!

We are truly blessed to be living in this new age of Pope saints and an age of such a vibrant and flourishing Church.
 
Kyrie_eleison_9 said:
The requirement used to be 2 miracles, but Pope Francis waived that for John XXIII. Alas, if only Pius XII were a Vatican II Pope, then he would be beatified. All of the Vatican II Popes are Saints, or are going to be. Paul VI is going to be beatified later this year.

Imagine, three Vatican II Popes being Saints! What a glorious and wonderful era in the Church we must be blessed to be living in; an era of great renewal and of a wonderful new springtime in the Church!

We are truly blessed to be living in this new age of Pope saints and an age of such a vibrant and flourishing Church.
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Why does it sound like there’s an air of sarcasm? St. John Paul II beatified Blessed Pius IX, and Pius IX isn’t a Vatican II pope. :rolleyes:
 
janeway529 said:
Why does it sound like there’s an air of sarcasm? St. John Paul II beatified Blessed Pius IX, and Pius IX isn’t a Vatican II pope. :rolleyes:
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I think it was in reference to the fact that Paul VI will be beatified in October and I seem to remember reading recently that John Paul I may be close also. If that is the case then all of the deceased popes since the opening of the Second Vatican council will be in the canonization process or already declared saints, as opposed to 6 popes in the preceding 450 years (only one of whom has been declared a Saint, St. Pius X).

Just trying to put into perspective how relatively rare it has been for popes to be beatified/canonized with the rapidity they have been over the past 20 - 30 years. Compare that to Pope Pius XII who’s cause has been ongoing for nearly 50 years. Some feel that the popularity of a given Pope dictates how much focus is given to their cause.

Personally, if they meet the criteria for canonization I don’t really care what side of the VII line they are on. Any holy men or women that we can ask to intercede for us is a blessing to the Church and the whole world.
 
Well he could just wave the requirement again, it’s not that hard apparently.
 
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Psalitte:
Well he could just wave the requirement again, it’s not that hard apparently.
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I hate to be a downer but I this whole canonization fever lately seems a little rushed and premature.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android
 
Psalitte said:
Well he could just wave the requirement again, it’s not that hard apparently.
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Seems like an apples to oranges comparison. John XXIII was already a Blessed (1 miracle). Pope Francis says Pius XII doesn’t have one yet. 🤷
 
Does it have to be a medical miracle? I would think with the number of lives he saved that would count. He is one of my favorites so to me he is one if not really recognized.
 
aTraditionalist said:
I hate to be a downer but I this whole canonization fever lately seems a little rushed and premature.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android
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Agreed. It’s starting to look like sainthood is almost a guaranteed post-mortem perk of the papacy, especially when the historical record shows how many centuries elapsed between earlier papal canonizations. Why, for example, John Paul I of the 33 days, and not Leo XIII of Rerum Novarum?
 
janeway529 said:
Seems like an apples to oranges comparison. John XXIII was already a Blessed (1 miracle). Pope Francis says Pius XII doesn’t have one yet. 🤷
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airforcemom said:
Does it have to be a medical miracle? I would think with the number of lives he saved that would count. He is one of my favorites so to me he is one if not really recognized.
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No, it doesn’t have to be medical. That’s just the most common type.

The life-saving done by Pius XII was completed during his lifetime. So it can’t count as a post-death miracle.

Francis recognized the 2nd Vatican Council as John XXIII’s second miracle. The council was originally convened during his lifetime, but it didn’t collapse with his death. Instead it gained momentum after he died and had dramatic effects on the entire church.
 
Nan_S said:
Francis recognized the 2nd Vatican Council as John XXIII’s second miracle. The council was originally convened during his lifetime, but it didn’t collapse with his death. Instead it gained momentum after he died and had dramatic effects on the entire church.
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Are you sure? As far as I know Pope Francis simply waved the second miracle requirement (aka* pro gratia*).

It is certainly true that many of the fathers of the second Vatican council called for his canonization, but that of itself does not make the Second Vatican council a miracle. If Pope Francis did declare it a miracle could you please provide information on where you read it.
 
Usige said:
Are you sure? As far as I know Pope Francis simply waved the second miracle requirement (aka* pro gratia*).

It is certainly true that many of the fathers of the second Vatican council called for his canonization, but that of itself does not make the Second Vatican council a miracle. If Pope Francis did declare it a miracle could you please provide information on where you read it.
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He did not declare V-II to be a miracle according to the norms that other miracles are investigated and declared. But neither did he simply waive the requirement “pro gratia” as you allege.

Francis made specific reference to the lasting effects of V-II (which was concluded after John XXIII’s death), noting that John XXIII was the initiator, and that in light of those effects the requirement to investigate and declare a second miracle according to the normal process was not necessary. John XXIII’s hand on posthumously transforming the whole church has been in front of our noses the whole time, if we only have eyes to see it.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/popes-john-paul-ii-john-xxiii-officially-declared-saints/
 
Nan_S said:
He did not declare V-II to be a miracle according to the norms that other miracles are investigated and declared. But neither did he simply waive the requirement “pro gratia” as you allege.

Francis made specific reference to the lasting effects of V-II (which was concluded after John XXIII’s death), noting that John XXIII was the initiator, and that in light of those effects the requirement to investigate and declare a second miracle according to the normal process was not necessary. John XXIII’s hand on posthumously transforming the whole church has been in front of our noses the whole time, if we only have eyes to see it.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/popes-john-paul-ii-john-xxiii-officially-declared-saints/
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I never said it had nothing to do with the Second Vatican council. I simply stated that the requirement for a second miracle was waived and that the statement that the success of the Second Vatican council had not been declared a miracle. I would also say Pope Paul VI had a lot to do with the impact of the council. I don’t think we should simply see Pope St. John XXIII’s only achievement as being VII.

I also do not *allege *that it was a pro gratia canonization as that is the phrase used for any case with a canonization that does not follow the normal requirements. It is called as such in a number of places such as this article. That does not diminish or take away from it in anyway.
 
I read the article mentioned by the OP, and in it Pope F. also said that the Jewish issue was part of the Pope Pius XII sainthood hold up. I had a miracle from the intercession of Pope XII for pain, but it could not be proven. It was a personal thing, not something that would help his cause. I know that he interceded for me. I saw the documentary about him called “Hand of Peace” which sheds great light on how he was deliberately maligned in regard to his help for the Jews by a play that was circulated. If my memory is correct, it was written by a Russian. The play has different names in different languages. In one it was called “the Deputy.” The play did much to cause doubt about Pius XII. Appears it worked. There are photos in the documentary of women (40) who gave birth while being hidden in private Vatican chambers, and he used his own money to help people escape to South America.
 
jeanannemarie said:
I read the article mentioned by the OP, and in it Pope F. also said that the Jewish issue was part of the Pope Pius XII sainthood hold up. I had a miracle from the intercession of Pope XII for pain, but it could not be proven. It was a personal thing, not something that would help his cause. I know that he interceded for me. I saw the documentary about him called “Hand of Peace” which sheds great light on how he was deliberately maligned in regard to his help for the Jews by a play that was circulated. If my memory is correct, it was written by a Russian. The play has different names in different languages. In one it was called “the Deputy.” The play did much to cause doubt about Pius XII. Appears it worked. There are photos in the documentary of women (40) who gave birth while being hidden in private Vatican chambers, and he used his own money to help people escape to South America.
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Code: 
The Jewish community was unified in its praise of Pius XII through the 1960s, especially because he had been very instrumental in improving the standing of Jews among Catholics; but the groups using a false image of St. John XXIII first began to attack Pius XII -- if John was "the good pope" then there was to be a "bad pope" preceding him -- and then this merged, in the 1990s, with the ultra-Israelism of young American Jews and then with the sex abuse propagandists who wanted to merge the causes of those crimes with the crimes against the Jewish people, and to blame the whole lot on Catholic doctrine in the manner of the small reporting commission in the UN a couple months ago.
Fortunately, the Pave the Way Foundation is working against this; but so far only Catholic publishers have been willing to publish works annihilating the Cornwell-Kertzer style trash among mainline firms.
 
jeanannemarie said:
I read the article mentioned by the OP, and in it Pope F. also said that the Jewish issue was part of the Pope Pius XII sainthood hold up. I had a miracle from the intercession of Pope XII for pain, but it could not be proven. It was a personal thing, not something that would help his cause. I know that he interceded for me. I saw the documentary about him called “Hand of Peace” which sheds great light on how he was deliberately maligned in regard to his help for the Jews by a play that was circulated. If my memory is correct, it was written by a Russian. The play has different names in different languages. In one it was called “the Deputy.” The play did much to cause doubt about Pius XII. Appears it worked. There are photos in the documentary of women (40) who gave birth while being hidden in private Vatican chambers, and he used his own money to help people escape to South America.
Click to expand...
There is a lot more to the “Jewish issue” as you call it than the above. The biggest obstacle perhaps is the role the future Pius XII played in 1933 as Vatican Secretary of State in executing a “Concordat” with the newly elected Hitler regime which effectively silenced any organized or clerical Catholic opposition to the regime in exchange for Hitler’s promise (which he broke of course) to respect the autonomy of Catholic schools and youth organizations. This gave the vulnerable regime much breathing room and respectability, both within Germany and on the world stage, and allowed Hitler to consolidate his power. However, well-intentioned, it showed a terrible lack of foresight and wisdom. Also there is Pius XII’s later refusal to condemn Naziism by name or excommunicate active Nazis (both of which measures were taken against Communists) or to urge disobedience by German Catholics to the regime.
 
Pius XII actually balked at the number of six million when it was presented at the Nuremburg trials. The Jews have never forgotten or forgiven him for that. And since the Church (for some incredibly baffling reason) still seems to be more interested in dialogue with Jews instead of calling them to conversion, Pius XII canonization efforts remain a sensitive issue.
 
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