Plan B & ella - abortifacients?

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So I may understand the debate…tell me…

The Church teaches that abortion and birth control are not moral…

what is the debate?
The Church does not teach that birth control is not moral (see Humanae Vitae). What the Church teaches is artificial birth control is immoral.

The USCCB does allow ABC in cases of rape where the woman has not ovulated.
 
The Church does not teach that birth control is not moral (see Humanae Vitae). What the Church teaches is artificial birth control is immoral.

The USCCB does allow ABC in cases of rape where the woman has not ovulated.
Sifu,

If you have the time, pull the quote, I don’t have the time to search for proof of what you say. Until then I remain nuetral as to what you say.
 
@Warrior and Coptic: the Church teaches that the regulation of births may be part of responsible parenthood, see, e.g., Section 10 of HV (“responsible parenthood is exercised . . . by those who, for serious reasons and with due respect for moral precepts, decide not to have additional children for either a certain or indefinite period of time”). The manner of regulating births must be moral. Contraception is an immoral method birth regulation, i.e., ‘birth control’.

Contraception is really what the Church is talking about, and I have found it useful to use that term, rather than artificial birth control, not least because withdrawal is also contraceptive but ‘natural’ as used in common parlance. Natural/artificial usually introduces confusion IMO.

Anyway, so if Coptic means contraception when he says ‘birth control’, he’s right, the Church does not permit that. If Warrior means the exercise of responsible parenthood using licit means of spacing births for serious reasons is “birth control”, he’s right too.

What do you think, fellas?
 
@Warrior and Coptic: the Church teaches that the regulation of births may be part of responsible parenthood, see, e.g., Section 10 of HV (“responsible parenthood is exercised . . . by those who, for serious reasons and with due respect for moral precepts, decide not to have additional children for either a certain or indefinite period of time”). The manner of regulating births must be moral. Contraception is an immoral method birth regulation, i.e., ‘birth control’.

Contraception is really what the Church is talking about, and I have found it useful to use that term, rather than artificial birth control, not least because withdrawal is also contraceptive but ‘natural’ as used in common parlance. Natural/artificial usually introduces confusion IMO.

Anyway, so if Coptic means contraception when he says ‘birth control’, he’s right, the Church does not permit that. If Warrior means the exercise of responsible parenthood using licit means of spacing births for serious reasons is “birth control”, he’s right too.

What do you think, fellas?
Well,

The thread is about drugs that are contraceptives. In the context of this thread any discussion about BC that is not contraceptive does not relate to this thread. Any confusion should be clarified by…
While this discussion is about ABC, not addressing ABC, and discussing other than what is relative to this thread…let me say this…
this would help clarify everything.
 
Well,

The thread is about drugs that are contraceptives. In the context of this thread any discussion about BC that is not contraceptive does not relate to this thread.
Hence the necessity to distinguish between artificial and natural birth control methods. People on this forum specifically refer to “ABC” and not “BC,” because “BC” as a general phrase includes both licit and illicit methods.
 
The document is here for your to review:

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

Note the distinction throughout the document between controlling births in a moral matter and controlling births in an unlawful/immoral manner.
This thread is about ABC. If you have a desire to discuss other than that start another thread. I suggest you pull the specific quote relating to rape and birth control.

Imagine that we have a thread about parenting and a side note about homosexuals adopting is brought in. We know the latter is not moral and not related to parenting. Stick with the topic.
 
Hence the necessity to distinguish between artificial and natural birth control methods. People on this forum specifically refer to “ABC” and not “BC,” because “BC” as a general phrase includes both licit and illicit methods.
Abortifacients, Plan B & Ella is what this thread is about, ABC. Any discussion on this thread should be related to ABC, BC, and they mean the same thing as it regards this thread.
 
Then refer to it as such. “Birth Control” is not “Artificial Birth Control.” Is it really that difficult to understand?
Sifu,

You appear to have a problem with the world and not me…

tarahaat.com/health_ABC.aspx
Artificial Methods:
A CONDOM:
INTRA UTERINE DEVICE (IUD)/COPPER T:
CONTRACEPTIVE PILLS:
INJECTION FOR BIRTH CONTROL:
davidlgray.info/blog/2011/07/four-reasons-why-artificial-birth-control-is-immoral-and-unnecessa/#
This article is going to offer four very clear reasons why artificial birth control (e.g. condoms, diaphragms, cervical caps, intrauterine devices, oral contraceptives, patches, sterilizations, spermicide (only), sponge, and injections) is always immoral and unnecessary.
catholicbible101.com/artificialbirthcontrol.htm
Humanae Vitae - The 1968 Encyclical that Pope Paul VI published with the help of the future Pope John Paul II that forbid the use of artificial contraception by Catholics.
Birth Control can be accomplished by Artificial Birth Control and as it regards this thread they are one and the same.

The thread is about Ella and Plan B both forms of Birth Control that are artificial. This thread is not about natural family planning.
 
Birth Control can be accomplished by Artificial Birth Control and as it regards this thread they are one and the same.
Birth control and artificial birth control, are not interchangeable, as you just learned.
The thread is about Ella and Plan B both forms of Birth Control that are artificial.
It’s good to see that you now understand that, and will not confuse others in the future.
 
Birth control and artificial birth control, are not interchangeable, as you just learned.

It’s good to see that you now understand that, and will not confuse others in the future.
Excellent…

We oppose Birth Control, and it does not take a brain surgeon to understand that Plan B and Ella are artificial. In the context of this thread any statement about Birth Control should be understood as related to Ella and Plan B so that there should be no need to clarify for anyone that Birth Control is wrong, since if you read post 16, 17 and 18 it was clearly understood in reference to the OP…
Can Plan B (the morning after pill) and “ella” (the week after pill), at least sometimes, function as abortifacients?
that is artificial:D

If you want to be correct then let us allow you to be correct…It is not like you are arguing for immorality like gay couples adopting children…Ok…

BC in this thread is only in reference to Plan B and Ella that the Church opposes and ABC is the same as BC that is artificial. Does this satisfy you?🙂
 
Excellent…

We oppose Birth Control, and it does not take a brain surgeon to understand that Plan B and Ella are artificial. In the context of this thread any statement about Birth Control should be understood as related to Ella and Plan B so that there should be no need to clarify for anyone that Birth Control is wrong, since if you read post 16, 17 and 18 it was clearly understood in reference to the OP…
It has not gone unnoticed that you have since reframed your statement since you have learned the BC is not inherently immoral.
BC in this thread is only in reference to Plan B and Ella that the Church opposes and ABC is the same as BC that is artificial. Does this satisfy you?🙂
Once again, be careful with wording. The USCCB allows such things as Plan B in very limit circumstances (not sure about Ella, but is serves the same purpose), such as in the case of rape where the woman has not ovulated. In this case, Plan B would make sure that the woman continues not to ovulate until the sperm dies. Plan B simply keeps an egg froml being fertilized as a result of this non-consensual, non-unitive act. If the egg never gets fertilized, the abortifacient issue never arises in the first place.
 
How fast acting are these drugs with respect to: (1) suppressing ovulation, (2) thinning the lining of the uterus, and (3) thickening cervical mucus?
One thing to keep in mind is that suppressing ovulation doesn’t happen in a vacuum. If the body is not supposed to be ovulate, then the uterus will not be favorable to allowing a fertilized egg to implant. This goes hand in hand. And is should be noted that this occurs whether or not one is taking and ABC to suppress ovulation; the rates of non-implantation are effectively the same when using drugs/hormones to suppress ovulation, or when practicing NFP (actually, nominally higher non-implantation rate with NFP).

I’m not discussing morals here before everybody starts extrapolating; just facts.
 
It has not gone unnoticed that you have since reframed your statement since you have learned the BC is not inherently immoral.

The USCCB allows such things as Plan B in very limit circumstances (not sure about Ella, but is serves the same purpose), such as in the case of rape where the woman has not ovulated. In this case, Plan B would make sure that the woman continues not to ovulate until the sperm dies. Plan B simply keeps an egg froml being fertilized as a result of this non-consensual, non-unitive act. If the egg never gets fertilized, the abortifacient issue never arises in the first place.
Once again, be careful with wording.
Let us see. Is this an admonition, a threat, a scolding…be careful or what?

I have asked and you have not provided evidence of the use of Plan B in rape that the Church approves of. The Church does not approve of Birth Control that is artificial.
 
Let us see. Is this an admonition, a threat, a scolding…be careful or what?
Be careful with wording because you won’t understand what you are reading, or how you are conveying your message. One they that is very obvious in reading and interpreting documents of the Church is that one word, or that Catholic definition of a word, can entirely change entirely the meaning of the discussion.

An obviously one pertains to divorce. The interpretation of one single word is why Protestants can divorce for adultery and Catholics cannot.
I have asked and you have not provided evidence of the use of Plan B in rape that the Church approves of. The Church does not approve of Birth Control that is artificial.
I am utterly surprised you do not know this. This particular issue has been discussed on the forum ad naseum, and the sources can be found in about 10 milliseconds using google. Here’s one such source.

old.usccb.org/prolife/issues/abortion/ecfact.shtml

If you do further research, you will also find that Plan B seems to be preferred, because in the rare case that the woman shows no signs of ovulation yet ovulates, and the egg is fertilized, there is a strong likelihood she will get pregnant. You can argue the point, but it is not me opinion you will be arguing with, but rather that of the USCCB.
 
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TheWarriorMonk:
Be careful with wording because you won’t understand what you are reading, or how you are conveying your message. One they that is very obvious in reading and interpreting documents of the Church is that one word, or that Catholic definition of a word, can entirely change entirely the meaning of the discussion.
So, you want me to be careful with wording because I won’t understand what I am reading. That is an interesting thought. In fact I understand as do you prior to any writing and reading of what is written is only a conveyance of thinking that is percieved by the reader and interptreted by them.

Conveyance of a message is communication. It is never clear what is percieved and that is why questions are asked.
An obviously one pertains to divorce. The interpretation of one single word is why Protestants can divorce for adultery and Catholics cannot.
An obviously one pertains to divorce? Taking heed from your caution about words, I have no idea what you are saying.

An obvious one pertains to divorce. Even this creates confusion. Would you mean…

An obvious example of wording?

“The interpretation of a single word is why Protestants can divorce for Adultery and Catholics cannot.”…I have no idea what this means. What word? What is it you are trying to say here. Let me give you an example…

Sins against Chastity include

Adultery
Maturbation
Homosexuality
Prostitution

Catholics oppose sins against Chasity. Recognizing that Homosexuality is a sin against Chastity, no Catholic in their right mind would support Homosexuals adopting. See how clear this is.
I am utterly surprised you do not know this. This particular issue has been discussed on the forum ad naseum, and the sources can be found in about 10 milliseconds using google. Here’s one such source.
If you do further research, you will also find that Plan B seems to be preferred, because in the rare case that the woman shows no signs of ovulation yet ovulates, and the egg is fertilized, there is a strong likelihood she will get pregnant. You can argue the point, but it is not me opinion you will be arguing with, but rather that of the USCCB.
You assumed too much and did not ask a question. Your “utter” would be surprised to learn that I had to think this through and here are my thoughts…
Compassionate and understanding care should be given to a person who is the victim of sexual assault. Health care providers should cooperate with law enforcement officials and offer the person psychological and spiritual support as well as accurate medical information. A female who has been raped should be able to defend herself against a potential conception from the sexual assault. If, after appropriate testing, there is no evidence that conception has occurred already, she may be treated with medications that would prevent ovulation, sperm capacitation, or fertilization. It is not permissible, however, to initiate or to recommend treatments that have as their purpose or direct effect the removal, destruction, or interference with the implantation of a fertilized ovum.19
It is recommended that a sexually assaulted woman be advised of the ethical restrictions that prevent Catholic hospitals from using abortifacient procedures; cf. Pennsylvania Catholic Conference, “Guidelines for Catholic Hospitals Treating Victims of Sexual Assault,” Origins 22 (1993): 810.
Since you did not ask a question as to what it was I wanted to know and assumed you knew what I wanted to know and did not explain it further…here is what I was thinking…
Plan B seems to be preferred, because in the rare case that the woman shows no signs of ovulation yet ovulates, and the egg is fertilized, there is a strong likelihood she will get pregnant.
This did not make sense to me. “In the rare case that the woman shows no signs of ovulation”…as a Physician I thought…how do you know when you ovulate? and next you say…“and the egg is fertilized”…how do we know the egg is fertilized? and when do we know based on the event, in other words how sensitive are tests…so

A fertilized egg must implant before a pregnancy test will be positive…

Blood pregnancy test is positive 2-3 days after implantation.

Which means that in the case of rape, a woman may have ovulated, the egg may have been fertilized and even implanted, however if the test is done 1 day after implantation then the test is negative. So, this means that the Church allows for rape victims access to whatver means to prevent pregancy if the test is negative…with the sensitity of the test being only within the 2-3 days of implantation…if it happens that this test improves in sensitivity and can be positive the moment of fertilization then the rules for the rape victim will change in terms of administering anything.

I suggest you put the same effort into your communication as you may put into puching and blocking.😃

Ok…
 
You’re arguing for the sake of arguing.

If you do not agree with the USCCB’s position on using Plan B or other drugs for stopping ovulation in specific situations, you may contact them here:

usccb.org/about/contact-us.cfm
 
You’re arguing for the sake of arguing.

If you do not agree with the USCCB’s position on using Plan B or other drugs for stopping ovulation in specific situations, you may contact them here:

usccb.org/about/contact-us.cfm
You clearly do not understand the position paper of the Bishops nor do you understand the that we cannot determine when someone is ovulating. Tests for pregancy determine if an egg is implanted and has been implanted but not sensitive enough to determine if it was implanted within 24 hours. By having a positive blood test that infers that ovulation occured because to have a positive test then the ovulation/fertilization and implantation occurred.

There is not, to my knowledge, any test available to determine ovulation. Do they teach this in your Dojo?
 
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