Planned Parenthood's "Abortions Are Just 3%" Claim is False

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ByzCathCantor said:
But you see, their argument is that since this occurs as a consequence of nature, then there is no distinction if it “occurs” as a consequence of choice.

The “statistics” don’t matter - it’s just a rationalization of the “unnatural” occurences …

BTW - this is the first time ever in my entire life that I have expressed openly any of my personal views on this important subject, but it is quite easy for me to now see why parties on each side of the abortion debate act and respond as they do …

… - just remember, Satan is the father of all lies! Trust your beliefs!
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If you follow this logic to its end, you would have to admit that because each and every person on this planet will eventually die, it is not against nature to kill one or millions of them because eventually they will die in any case. So Hitler was doing nothing wrong at all. Neither was Pol Pot. Neither was Stalin. They were all just helping nature a little bit.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
If you follow this logic to its end, you would have to admit that because each and every person on this planet will eventually die, it is not against nature to kill one or millions of them because eventually they will die in any case. So Hitler was doing nothing wrong at all. Neither was Pol Pot. Neither was Stalin. They were all just helping nature a little bit.
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And there you have it!
 
I’m curious i have just been reading up on my graduate course of ethics for a mid term … one of the questions posed covers the issue of abortion and religion and how this would impact on the counselor and how they handle it.

I am Catholic and against abortion but still find myself worrying over this scenario:

A young teenager of just turned 13 has been brutally gang raped and is now pregnant. She is a Catholic and her parents are absolutely against abortion in any situation. The teenager wants an abortion and has been sent to counselor as she is considered a threat to herself and her unborn child. You are the counselor. How would you approach therapy in an appropriate ethical manner?

I struggle with this as if faced with this scenario i can honestly say i would not know how to respond.

Is abortion really clear cut even in a circumstance like this? Spiritually i know i don’t condone abortion but how do you explain this to a traumatized, damaged child whose body biologically says she can carry and give birth, but the act of conception is brutal and her mental health severely under threat???
 
Abortion will not un-rape the girl but will traumatize her a second time.

The 13 year old should get the best medical, spiritual and emotional support available. As she brings this child to term, she can discern if she will place this child with a loving adoptive couple or raise the child herself.

Murdering the child for the sins of the father is never an option.
 
Castello said:
Abortion will not un-rape the girl but will traumatize her a second time.

The 13 year old should get the best medical, spiritual and emotional support available. As she brings this child to term, she can discern if she will place this child with a loving adoptive couple or raise the child herself.

Murdering the child for the sins of the father is never an option.
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I don’t disagree, though to be completely honest i hope and pray i never find myself faced with this situation, it would be heartbreaking.
 
zz912 said:
Yes, the consequences may be the same, the causes are different.

If you die of natural causes, or die because you were murdered, are those the same? The end consequence is the same, but something tells me you would prefer one over the other.
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Actually I think it would depend on which came first!
 
Hokomai said:
Actually I think it would depend on which came first!
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Maybe for an atheist 😉 If I got to choose between dying tomorrow as a martyr who was killed for his belief in God, and dying 30 years from now in a state of mortal sin I would choose the former 😃
 
essie7777 said:
I’m curious i have just been reading up on my graduate course of ethics for a mid term … one of the questions posed covers the issue of abortion and religion and how this would impact on the counselor and how they handle it.

I am Catholic and against abortion but still find myself worrying over this scenario:

A young teenager of just turned 13 has been brutally gang raped and is now pregnant. She is a Catholic and her parents are absolutely against abortion in any situation. The teenager wants an abortion and has been sent to counselor as she is considered a threat to herself and her unborn child. You are the counselor. How would you approach therapy in an appropriate ethical manner?

I struggle with this as if faced with this scenario i can honestly say i would not know how to respond.

Is abortion really clear cut even in a circumstance like this? Spiritually i know i don’t condone abortion but how do you explain this to a traumatized, damaged child whose body biologically says she can carry and give birth, but the act of conception is brutal and her mental health severely under threat???
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Women who have been through a rape, even a very brutal gang-rape, and who have NOT aborted, have redeemed what seemed like the end of their lives. At the end of their pregnancy, they either gave the baby to someone who could raise it with love, or they came to love the baby themselves. As Castello said, you cannot undo a rape with an abortion, and women who have had both say that the abortion was far the worse experience. You are piling another evil onto a previous one. The women (or girl, this this case) knows that she is murdering her own child.

She would need a lot of support, especially from her parents, but she could come through with flying colors.
 
Hokomai said:
I could not easily come up with a study, although I would think of the NIH as an authority. I did note that a Google search on the exact phrase you mention produces multiple identical references not linked to a study. I am having lunch with a medical statistician later in the week and will ask him (always easier than doing the work oneself! It seems like a commonsense figure, given the number of mothers historically who don’t have 20 children.
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Why does it matter?
 
essie7777 said:
I’m curious i have just been reading up on my graduate course of ethics for a mid term … one of the questions posed covers the issue of abortion and religion and how this would impact on the counselor and how they handle it.

I am Catholic and against abortion but still find myself worrying over this scenario:

A young teenager of just turned 13 has been brutally gang raped and is now pregnant. She is a Catholic and her parents are absolutely against abortion in any situation. The teenager wants an abortion and has been sent to counselor as she is considered a threat to herself and her unborn child. You are the counselor. How would you approach therapy in an appropriate ethical manner?

I struggle with this as if faced with this scenario i can honestly say i would not know how to respond.

Is abortion really clear cut even in a circumstance like this? Spiritually i know i don’t condone abortion but how do you explain this to a traumatized, damaged child whose body biologically says she can carry and give birth, but the act of conception is brutal and her mental health severely under threat???
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Can I make it even harder? What if the pregnancy due to a defect poses a possible risk to the womans life. What then?
 
fgh_123 said:
Can I make it even harder? What if the pregnancy due to a defect poses a possible risk to the womans life. What then?
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In our world of modern medicine, there are very few if any situations where the mother cannot be closely monitored and allow the baby to reach viability then be delivered early.

We always must remember there are two lives and they are both important.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
Women who have been through a rape, even a very brutal gang-rape, and who have NOT aborted, have redeemed what seemed like the end of their lives. At the end of their pregnancy, they either gave the baby to someone who could raise it with love, or they came to love the baby themselves. As Castello said, you cannot undo a rape with an abortion, and women who have had both say that the abortion was far the worse experience. You are piling another evil onto a previous one. The women (or girl, this this case) knows that she is murdering her own child.

She would need a lot of support, especially from her parents, but she could come through with flying colors.
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Maybe, although i would guess that the people you speak of are women, not children.

I agree that abortion is wrong. And maybe a grown woman with the mental ability and emotional experience can cope better in these situations to see that.

The point i was making was i hope i never see a situation like this is my job, as i think you would have be extremely cold hearted not to feel unbelievable sympathy and horror at what that young girl will have experienced and will still have to experience with a unwanted, pregnancy as a constant companion to her memories of her experience if only until birth.

A child is not necessarily equipped to process horror such as this and the added issues of pregnancy that can be so very dangerous for them physically and emotionally. Imagine if you can your 12 year old daughter, or someone you know of that age, are they truly able to segregate their bodies journey in pregnancy from the horror of what caused the conception? It’s a big ask of anyone let alone a child.

As i have said i pray i don’t ever come across this situation as i am honest enough to state i am not sure i would cope with it well, let alone be of help to the people involved. 😊
 
Castello said:
In our world of modern medicine, there are very few if any situations where the mother cannot be closely monitored and allow the baby to reach viability then be delivered early.

We always must remember there are two lives and they are both important.
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there are some advantages to living in a technological advancing age … i think!!! 😃
 
Hokomai said:
Actually I think it would depend on which came first!
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Dying of murder always comes first. You can’t murder someone who has already died of natural causes. Part of the definition of murder is ending a life before natural death.
 
essie7777 said:
Maybe, although i would guess that the people you speak of are women, not children.

I agree that abortion is wrong. And maybe a grown woman with the mental ability and emotional experience can cope better in these situations to see that.

The point i was making was i hope i never see a situation like this is my job, as i think you would have be extremely cold hearted not to feel unbelievable sympathy and horror at what that young girl will have experienced and will still have to experience with a unwanted, pregnancy as a constant companion to her memories of her experience if only until birth.

A child is not necessarily equipped to process horror such as this and the added issues of pregnancy that can be so very dangerous for them physically and emotionally. Imagine if you can your 12 year old daughter, or someone you know of that age, are they truly able to segregate their bodies journey in pregnancy from the horror of what caused the conception? It’s a big ask of anyone let alone a child.

As i have said i pray i don’t ever come across this situation as i am honest enough to state i am not sure i would cope with it well, let alone be of help to the people involved. 😊
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It the rapist doesn’t impregnate her does she have the right to have his children killed? After all seeing them in the community would be a daily remInder of what she went through?
 
Castello said:
In our world of modern medicine, there are very few if any situations where the mother cannot be closely monitored and allow the baby to reach viability then be delivered early.
Unfortunately that is simply not true. Ectopic pregnancies, Severe preeclampsia, eclampsia, thrombosis, HELLP, disseminated intravascular coagulopathy, placental abruption, etc.
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estesbob said:
It the rapist doesn’t impregnate her does she have the right to have his children killed? After all seeing them in the community would be a daily remInder of what she went through?
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Completely irrelevant and unnecessary comment … I’m curious did you read any of the other posts?

From your response i’d say no, as nowhere is anyone (and certainly not me) advocating abortion so this stupid comparison simply infuriates me. Your inference that my comments condone abortion in anyway is disgusting. :mad:
 
essie7777 said:
Completely irrelevant and unnecessary comment … I’m curious did you read any of the other posts?

From your response i’d say no, as nowhere is anyone (and certainly not me) advocating abortion so this stupid comparison simply infuriates me. Your inference that my comments condone abortion in anyway is disgusting. :mad:
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I read the other posts. If killing the rapists child is aprropriate in the case he impregnates his victim why wouldnt it be appropriate to kill his children if he does not impregnate her? After all the whole premise seems to be to punish a chid for the sins of their father.
 
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