Playing covers of songs

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loro

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This is my first post, so hi everyone!

I’ve got a dilemma, could you help me out?
I’m a member of a local band. We’re not at all popular anywhere outside our town, and we play very rarely, and always for free. Like most of the bands do when they’re starting up, we do a lot of covers, and we’ve performed them live.

Today I found out that in order to do this legally one needs to buy licenses from appropriate record companies (and that costs quite a bit) - to pay royalites to the original composers, so I’m wondering if not doing that is a sin.

On one hand: it’s clear that one should give to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s - no matter how small band we are, and how much money the companies earn, and whether some stuff that they’re doing is moral or immoral.

On the other hand: small bands always play covers and it’s a common practice, and very few of them even think of copyright. Obviously at bigger concerts, more popular bands would have to pay the royalties etc. - but we’re gonna be playing only at a local club. And the thing is that everyone knows that small bands play covers - most of the popular artists were doing that when they were starting up, and surely few of them were paying royalties at that time - when it came to playing live - obviously it’s different when one puts in on youtube or wants to record it for an album. But I’m talking just about live performances. And also we’re not earning any money on this, and it seems that no one is hurt (well except that these people won’t get paid…)

But obviously one shouldn’t look at what most people do. Most people download music illegally and I don’t. What kind of person would I be therefore if I was breaking the copyright law in another way? And in the light of the (Earth) law it doesn’t matter if we do it non-profit, or for a small audience - it’s still a public performance, and we need to pay royalties.

And we have enough songs written by ourselves to play a set that consists only of them. But the other members of the band wouldn’t agree on that. I’ve just talked to one of them about it and he said that he’s not gonna be changing a widespread tendency, without which the musical market wouldn’t work. I might even quit the band if I have to, because obviously God is more important. But maybe I’m just exaggerating?

🤷
 
Yes you need to pay to use copyrighted materials. It is the law and it is the moral thing to do. Otherwise you are stealing.
 
As far as legality goes, you’re not stealing. Even if you make a cover of something and put it on youtube, it’s not stealing. What are you “stealing”. An example that WOULD be stealing is selling admission to a concert for which you play covers. THAT would be stealing as you’re actually making money off of something that doesn’t belong to you. Some of said money should go to the people who wrote the music, and just to put this in even clearer perspective, that’s not even necessarily those who performed it, especially in today’s world of popular music. Royalties go to who composed and wrote the words to the songs in the first place. Performers themselves have to pay royalties to the originators. As I said, though, playing it for free, no money made, no money owed. Plain and simple. Playing at someplace for free is tantamount to gettng together with buddies around a fire and playing for fun (practically speaking). Even if an owner pays you to perform at their club, it’s not the same as people lining up and paying to hear “Psycho Killer” and the like. I personally don’t think there’s anything wrong with what you’re describing.

Now if you want to argue for why one would be morally obliged to pay royalties on a cover, I’d like to see that. Simply stating something, however, doesn’t make it so.
 
As far as legality goes, you’re not stealing. Even if you make a cover of something and put it on youtube, it’s not stealing. What are you “stealing”. An example that WOULD be stealing is selling admission to a concert for which you play covers. THAT would be stealing as you’re actually making money off of something that doesn’t belong to you. Some of said money should go to the people who wrote the music, and just to put this in even clearer perspective, that’s not even necessarily those who performed it, especially in today’s world of popular music. Royalties go to who composed and wrote the words to the songs in the first place. Performers themselves have to pay royalties to the originators. As I said, though, playing it for free, no money made, no money owed. Plain and simple. Playing at someplace for free is tantamount to gettng together with buddies around a fire and playing for fun (practically speaking). Even if an owner pays you to perform at their club, it’s not the same as people lining up and paying to hear “Psycho Killer” and the like. I personally don’t think there’s anything wrong with what you’re describing.

Now if you want to argue for why one would be morally obliged to pay royalties on a cover, I’d like to see that. Simply stating something, however, doesn’t make it so.
The legality of it isn’t about “stealing”. The legality of it is about “licensing” - specifically licensed by ASCAP/BMI/etc., for radio airplay or for usage on Pandora or in this case, licensed to be performed in public. If you’re performing licensed material for a public audience without said license (permission), you’re exposing yourself to a lawsuit.
 
Ah, true. I heard of a composer who wrote band music and went around to sporting events where his music was being pkayed without the licensing and he sued them (pretty much his means of income; kind of sad).
 
Yes, it is stealing. It is using someone’s copyrighted work without their permission. It is also denying them the legitimate monetary fruit of their labor by not paying to use their materials.
 
Wow, a lot of misinformation here. Is everyone just guessing about this issue and making stuff up? 🙂

You can play covers without violating copyright law or licensing. If you play in a venue (bar, restaurant, etc), it is up to the venue to pay the licensing fees – not the artist. If the fees haven’t been paid, then the venue will get fined – not the artist.

If you record a cover and sell it on your CD or website or etc, then you have to pay a licensing fee to the publisher. Often you don’t need permission – you just cut the publisher a check.

It doesn’t matter if you get the artist’s permission to record the work, for you will still need to pay the publishers (who control the legal aspects, such as permissions etc).

Playing covers is not stealing. Stay in your band and rawk out!
 
HAHA! To be perfectly honest, I was going with my gut (or out my bum, not sure which :-P) concerning this. It’s just that I’m a musician from a rather artsy town in the midwest where there are multiple performances around the city any given night. I know people in bands or who are solo and perform/recorf covers all the time and I’ve never heard of one of them paying royalties. I just sort of assumed that paying royalties/getting permissing involved performing/recording on a larger scale. I guess I wasn’t terribly off the wall with respect to this. 🙂
 
Thanks for the answers,

I Thirst, I know it’s like that in USA but not in my country (Poland) - here, as far as I know from reading about it, it’s up to the venue or the band - and it’s just a custom, that the venue pays for this.

Now what if I have a very strong suspicion that this club doesn’t have this license? - We’ve already played there and they never asked us about our setlist - they would have done that, so that they would have known who to pay to. And it’s a small club. (Obviously the only way to make sure for 100% is to ask them…)

But if they don’t have this license - how could I play there? - Even if it was all up to them - playing there knowing that they don’t have this license would be agreeing with their sin, wouldn’t it?
 
Also God’s law should be everywhere the same - shouldn’t vary from country to country - so I don’t think we can say that always breaking the Earth law is equivalent to breaking the God’s law.
 
Thanks for the answers,

I Thirst, I know it’s like that in USA but not in my country (Poland) - here, as far as I know from reading about it, it’s up to the venue or the band - and it’s just a custom, that the venue pays for this.

Now what if I have a very strong suspicion that this club doesn’t have this license? - We’ve already played there and they never asked us about our setlist - they would have done that, so that they would have known who to pay to. And it’s a small club. (Obviously the only way to make sure for 100% is to ask them…)

But if they don’t have this license - how could I play there? - Even if it was all up to them - playing there knowing that they don’t have this license would be agreeing with their sin, wouldn’t it?
I don’t know about licensing in Poland. 🤷

But it’s an interesting question you ask: if they don’t have the license, then are you agreeing with their sin. I think it would be like drinking in a club that didn’t have a liquor license.

I’d feel uncomfortable playing in such a situation, and I wouldn’t want to book gigs there.
 
First of all, youtube is a public distribution medium. Even though a physical product is not involved, those digital bits are songs or movies. Most of my friends are writers and artists, including one musician. All of them began by copying professional work to understand how to do it. They then moved on to create original material.

A Lot of people think copying something without making money off it is OK. Not according to the FBI.

fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/cyber/ipr/anti-piracy

From the youtube Terms of Service agreement.

“D.You further agree that Content you submit to the Service will not contain third party copyrighted material, or material that is subject to other third party proprietary rights, unless you have permission from the rightful owner of the material or you are otherwise legally entitled to post the material and to grant YouTube all of the license rights granted herein.”

Full Terms of Service:

youtube.com/static?gl=US&template=terms

About performing in public:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performing_rights

I have a friend who plays covers in his house all the time. He’s a guitarist, drummer and vocalist. He does this to stay in practice and because he loves music.

Hope this helps,
Ed
 
Thank you all for responses. I feel I know what I should do, but I guess I’ll talk about it to a priest anyway.

Now as I mentioned we’ve already played some concerts on which we played covers. As I said I didn’t know it was illegal and a sin. If I knew I would never do this. But I’ve done it.

What in your opinion will I have to do now as a satisfaction for these sins? It would be a heck of a lot of money if I was supposed to give it all back… 😦
 
What in your opinion will I have to do now as a satisfaction for these sins? It would be a heck of a lot of money if I was supposed to give it all back… 😦
Discuss this with your confessor.
 
I used to play in a local band and this is an issue we never thought of, never occurred to us as a consideration. It simply is a tradition for local groups to do covers. . . and, in fact, had we tried original material, folks would’ve walked away, since they wouldn’t have known the song!

This might be in the category of overscrupulous for most local band situations.
 
Yes you need to pay to use copyrighted materials. It is the law and it is the moral thing to do. Otherwise you are stealing.
Thats BS ^^^ I myself as a professional musician am sick and tired of hearing this ****… if you aren’t making any big money off it and are doing it non for profit that’s NOT stealing… if ANYTHING it is supporting the artist because you are sharing there music with other people…

ASACP needs to get lost… They even tried to fine girl scout camps and boy scout camps once for singing “copyrighted songs”… oh brother

music is an energy and when people keep trying to make it all about money the spirt of the music is RUINED and the music is bastardized…

Let’s get real…

🤷
 
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