Playing the piano for Protestant services

[Dan_Blake]

PaulDupre:

If you want professional quality music, you need to hire a professional. That involves pay, and rightly so.
Paul

Spoken like a true-blue union man. Seriously, do you also support having a paid lector? I would rather sing a cappella (which means in chapel style) then utilize a paid “professional” instrumentalist.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Dan, while I would love to be able to volunteer my services as a musician, today’s economics make them impossible. I’m a single mom; I need paid income.

Where did you get the idea that church musicians somehow shouldn’t be paid? They have been paid since the time of St. Paul (Christians). Maybe you were lucky enough to live in the 50s in a city with a large Catholic population, where the teaching nuns or the little old ladies were happy to play gratis. . .that is about the ONLY time in history that the majority of church “musicians” had the leisure and the numbers available to make music a “volunteer” ministry.

Do you know what a church organist/ choir director/ cantor needs to do today? Do you know we have degrees in musicology? In liturgy? That we take periodic courses to keep updated? That we subscribe to all sorts of periodicals and papers? Have conferences? That we don’t just make a blind stab at any old hymn, but work with the priest and the liturgical commitee to make sure the music complements the liturgy of the day? That we somehow manage to take disparate people with all sorts of training and talent and meld them into a cohesive whole? That we aren’t just people like your Uncle Stu who could “tinkle the ivories”, or your neighbor who used to play the guitar as a camp counselor?

So you’d “rather sing a capella”. Plenty of times I’ve directed people singing a capella.

Don’t get me wrong; God is just as pleased with Mr. O’Leary’s off key but worshipful singing as he is with mine. He loves Uncle Stu’s playing and mine too.

The world would not come to an end musically speaking if there were no “paid” professional musicians. I’m sure it wouldn’t end if there were no “paid” professional artists, dancers, athletes, etc. either.

But talent is a gift. Today’s liturgy told us to use our talents. Should I put my talent under a bushel because you think it’s offensive to pay a musician for playing for church services? Should I, rather than receive the money I’m worth for providing my talent, then scrub floors for less (ok, not much less, but even so) just because you think my talent shouldn’t be used in church, even if it’s budgeted for, and worthwhile?

 

[PaulDupre]

Dan Blake:

Spoken like a true-blue union man. Seriously, do you also support having a paid lector? I would rather sing a cappella (which means in chapel style) then utilize a paid “professional” instrumentalist.

I am a lector, and believe me it takes little or no talent, and very little preparation, to be a lector.

I have also been a professional musician. And I can tell you that the thousands of hours of preparation and rehearsal that go into a professional quality performance leave little time for any other paying work. Therefore the musician, sacred or secular, deserves her pay just as much as the priest or bishop who presides at mass.

If your parish has a professional-quality organist or cantor who has the luxury of performing for free, that’s great. Personally I don’t know any financially independent musicians.

“…the labourer is worthy of his hire.” Luke 10:7

Grace to you,
Paul

 

[Dan_Blake]

Tantum ergo:

I’m a single mom; I need paid income. Where did you get the idea that church musicians somehow shouldn’t be paid?

My dear Tantum,

Save the independently wealthy, we all need income. You as well as others are responding as if I made a personal judgement against you. Such was not my intent. Be at peace with how you make a living, but don’t belittle the one who makes a sacrificial offering to God of time, energy, income, pleasure, and more.

They have been paid since the time of St. Paul.

While St. Paul certainly defended the idea of a paid clergy, he also held himself up as an example of one who supported not only himself but his companions as well with the labors of his hands.

Do you know what a church organist/ choir director/ cantor needs to do today? Do you know . . . [etc]

Well, let’s see. I have been a cantor for more than twenty years. My wife, organist for more than thirty and choir director to boot. Her sister, church pianist for a like amount of time. Bro-in-law, choir director (different church). Eldest daughter, church pianist. Eldest son, stand-in pianist, but he prefers to stick to the classics. Yes, one could say that I am familiar with the demands.

That we don’t just make a blind stab at any old hymn. That we somehow manage to take disparate people with all sorts of training and talent and meld them into a cohesive whole? That we aren’t just people like your Uncle Stu who could “tinkle the ivories”, or your neighbor who used to play the guitar as a camp counselor?

A better example of an ad hominem argument I cannot remember.

God is just as pleased with Mr. O’Leary’s off key but worshipful singing as he is with mine.

More ad hominem, unless you are equating your singing to Mr. O’Leary’s.

Today’s liturgy told us to use our talents. Should I put my talent under a bushel because you think it’s offensive to pay a musician for playing for church services? Should I, rather than receive the money I’m worth for providing my talent, then scrub floors for less (ok, not much less, but even so) just because you think my talent shouldn’t be used in church, even if it’s budgeted for, and worthwhile?

Please, dear Tantum, don’t throw a tantrum. Whether it is better to make your living scrubbing floors is a question between you and your spiritual director. But don’t be upset with me. I never said you should hide your talents or not use them. Nor did I say that paying musicians was offensive. I simply said that I didn’t want to hire them. If a boy comes to your door and offers to mow your lawn for $10, he is worthy of his labor, but that does not mean that you have to hire him. And he has no right to be upset with your neighbor’s boy who mows your lawn without charge.

Peace be upon you,
Dan

 

[pianoplayingmom]

Sheesh. You people are getting far away from my initial question. This being my first foray into this sort of mode of communication, I am finding it very interesting. I have a feeling this happens quite a lot in these forums!

Anyway, in my humble opinion, it’s okay to be paid as a professional. It’s also okay to volunteer. I have done both in my 30+ years of playing the organ/piano for churches. As long as we are singing a joyful song unto the Lord and doing what we are called to do with our talents, I say what’s the difference?

As for me personally, at this moment in my life, I depend greatly on the income from my 3 church jobs but I also volunteer at a nursing home 2 to 3 times a month for Mass. I don’t feel badly about being paid. It’s as it should be right now.

Let us all praise God that we can sing/play at all. Think what a void there would be in our lives if we couldn’t praise God in the musical ways we do. How very blessed we are, don’t you think?

Joannie

 

[Dan_Blake]

PaulDupre:

I have also been a professional musician. And I can tell you that the thousands of hours of preparation and rehearsal that go into a professional quality performance leave little time for any other paying work. Therefore the musician, sacred or secular, deserves her pay just as much as the priest or bishop who presides at mass.

Grace to you,
Paul

Dear Paul,

I understand the effort required, and I mean no disrespect (see post #24). However, you make my case (in my mind). Paid professional musicians facilitate turning an act of worship into a performance. Also, let me point out the obvious, that without the priest there is no mass. Can the same be said about the musicians?

Regards,
Dan

 

[pianoplayingmom]

Dan Blake:

Dear Paul,

Paid professional musicians facilitate turning an act of worship into a performance. Regards,
Dan

I try VERY hard not to perform at Mass. A man came up to me once during my prelude music and told me I was performing well that day. I was so upset, I never played the piece for prelude again. I see my role as one that entices people to pray more fervently, to build community through song, to enhance the liturgy. There is absolutely NO room for performers at Mass. Humility is key in church musicians.

 

[otm]

pianoplayingmom:

A friend and I are arguing over whether it is a mortal sin for me to play the piano for a Presbyterian service on Sundays. I am getting paid. I depend on this income for my living. I always fulfill my Sunday obligation by playing for a Mass before I play for the Presbyterians. I am NOT turning my back on the Catholic Church. Far from it. I say I am trying to help bring the people there closer to the Catholic Church. I read the document on ecumenism in Vatican II and it seems as though what I am doing is okay by what is written there. He says Protestants are heretics and I cannot play at their services and I must stop immediately, repent, go to Confession and do satisfaction. Who is correct?

His knowledge of moral theology, and for that matter, ecclesiastical theology, is a tad bit lacking. Maybe it is time for some new frienships?

 

[pianoplayingmom]

otm:

His knowledge of moral theology, and for that matter, ecclesiastical theology, is a tad bit lacking. Maybe it is time for some new frienships?

I believe you are correct. Today, he wrote me an email, ending with: “Enjoy hell, you will be there a long time.” This was after telling me that Satan is my master, that I am a daughter of Satan. (With friends like this, who needs enemies?) He has gone too far. In contrast, all my priest friends, other priests I’ve asked AND a local bishop have all told me I am not sinning by playing for the Presbyterians. They all cite Vatican II and tell me I am building a bridge toward unity. They say the Holy Spirit works even in Protestant churches. I think I’m going to put my friend on permanent ignore. (Can you tell I’ve been perusing Yahoo chat rooms lately, too???) Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut!

Joannie

 

[kidderdoc]

pianoplayingmom:

I believe you are correct. Today, he wrote me an email, ending with: “Enjoy hell, you will be there a long time.” This was after telling me that Satan is my master, that I am a daughter of Satan. (With friends like this, who needs enemies?)

Wow:bigyikes: Your friend sounds unstable! :whacky: When people start attacking others accusing of sin…it is usually because they have some very huge unresolved problem/sin of their own.! I think Bishop Sheen taught this concept quite eloquently.

Kidder

 

[otm]

kidderdoc:

Wow:bigyikes: Your friend sounds unstable! :whacky: When people start attacking others accusing of sin…it is usually because they have some very huge unresolved problem/sin of their own.! I think Bishop Sheen taught this concept quite eloquently.

Kidder

That is one of the causes. another is that they simply have one or more screws loose…or missing entirely. He sounds like a candidate for somewhere between very conservative and ultra conservative, a group that, if they haven’t fallen off the edge of the earth, is tottering on the brink. They have minds like steel traps - shut tight.