Please clarify

[anothertrekker]

Hi,

I know of 2 Catholic individuals of the same gender who have decided to commit themselves to a lifelong relationship. Is their relationship sinful even if they do not engage in same-sex activities?

Thank you.

 

[rpp]

Hi,

I know of 2 Catholic individuals of the same gender who have decided to commit themselves to a lifelong relationship. Is their relationship sinful even if they do not engage in same-sex activities?

Thank you.

That they abstain from sexual activity is ridiculous in this circumstance. It is more reasonable for a person to think they, like all sexual deviants, lie about their sexual activity. That sexual deviants would abstain from sexual activity is just not believable. Therefore, even if your hypothetical sexual deviants abstain from sexual activity, since no one would reasonably believe that they actually do abstain, they commit the grave sin of scandal.

Please, if you want to ask hypothetical questions, at least choose reasonable or possible circumstances. This one is neither reasonable nor possible.

 

[beeliner]

That they abstain from sexual activity is ridiculous in this circumstance.

What is ridiculous is your entire theory.

What about monks in a monastery? Couldn’t the same assertion be made?

Also, the poster didn’t even specify that they were homosexuals.

Also, what about unmarried heterosexual couples, like St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila or St. Francis of Assisi and St. Clare?

Are we to be suspicious of their relationships also?

 

[cecilia97]

Hi,

I know of 2 Catholic individuals of the same gender who have decided to commit themselves to a lifelong relationship. Is their relationship sinful even if they do not engage in same-sex activities?

Thank you.

Of course, we cannot see into their hearts and souls. But I would suppose that, if they have same-sex attractions, this situation could be a near occasion of sin for them. That would be a concern, as well as scandal which someone else mentioned.

I have elderly family friends, women, who have lived together for nearly 50 years now. They are not Catholic, and we’ve never been certain of the nature of their relationship. They never really “gave scandal” in my mind because I knew them from childhood and their relationship at least appears totally a-sexual.

As a single woman, frankly, I can see myself entering a practical living relationship with a female friend in the future. If I am unmarried at age 65, for instance, I don’t see what would be wrong with buying a house with or renting to a dear girlfriend who is in similar circumstances…so we can help each other into old age. There doesn’t have to be anything sexual about a living arrangement.

 

[sdtouchton]

God’s plan for a successful marriage is that it should be an exclusive sexual relationship with one person, for life. Genesis 2:18-25 describes marriage as a divine institution. God presented Adam with Eve and established the first marriage. Some of God’s purposes for marriage as stated in the Bible are companionship(Genesis 2:18) ,procreation(Genesis 1:28), mutual and undefiled pleasure ( 1 Corinthians 7:4-5,Proverbs 5:18-19 Song of Solomon; Hebrews 13:4), prevention of immorality (1 Corinthians 7:2,5), the serving of Christ as a whole and properly representing the spiritual relationship between Christ and the Church (Ephesians 5:22-33), and the raising of godly descendants (Malachi 2:13-16). The bond of marriage when respected leads to the good of not only the couple and their children, but also to the good of the society as a whole, for the family unit is the building block of any society and nation.

Many people in our society live together before marriage to see if they are compatible as they don’t want to divorce. This is definitely a sin of fornication in Gods eyes but not in worlds view. Living together is wrong: it is against God’s law, and is morally indefensible. Living together shows a total lack of trust, faith and obedience in God and a failure to commit to Him the choosing of a life mate. Living together is nothing but trial and error marriage method. Its like experimenting the relationships. The fact is about 60% of marriages in the US end up in a divorce. Most of the western countries live together in relationship and has been accepted and encouraged in their society. That is why they have highest divorce rates, violence, crimes, broken families, life of promiscuity and drugs, loneliness ,sexual sins, high rates of legal abortion, higher rates of sexually transmitted disease, Neurotic disorders, health risks and many people never marry because they can not find Mr. and Ms Right and Perfect. Directly or indirectly it has contributed for single Parents/families with no Man as a spiritual and family leader to protect their families.

Many researchers say that Couples who move in together before marriage hare two times more likely to divorce than couples who marry before living together.
biblicalproof4catholicfaith.blogspot.com/2010/03/living-together-is-for-married-life-not.html

 

[DysonSphere]

Please, if you want to ask hypothetical questions, at least choose reasonable or possible circumstances. This one is neither reasonable nor possible.

What premises do you use in order to determine that this hypothetical situation is impossible? What is the structure of your argument?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hi,

I know of 2 Catholic individuals of the same gender who have decided to commit themselves to a lifelong relationship. Is their relationship sinful even if they do not engage in same-sex activities?

Thank you.

There is nothing morally wrong for people to express “brotherly” love (Filio) for one another, but not Sexual love, Eros.

 

[Newbie2]

What is ridiculous is your entire theory.

What about monks in a monastery? Couldn’t the same assertion be made?

Also, the poster didn’t even specify that they were homosexuals.

Also, what about unmarried heterosexual couples, like St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila or St. Francis of Assisi and St. Clare?

Are we to be suspicious of their relationships also?

Exactly.

There is nothing morally wrong for people to express “brotherly” love (Filio) for one another, but not Sexual love, Eros.

Exactly as well.

That being said, one has to wonder what exactly is mean by “commit themselves to a lifelong relationship”.

Is it something like: youtube.com/watch?v=xrcgjMJmvNg&feature=related

Start at 4:02

or something else?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Exactly.

Exactly as well.

That being said, one has to wonder what exactly is mean by “commit themselves to a lifelong relationship”.

Is it something like: youtube.com/watch?v=xrcgjMJmvNg&feature=related

Start at 4:02

or something else?

This is why “Marriage” is such a confused issue. Marriage is ordered by Natural Law towards the procreation of children. This is one of the two ends of Marriage. A “Brotherly-relationship” cannot be a Marriage.

 

[beeliner]

This is why “Marriage” is such a confused issue. Marriage is ordered by Natural Law towards the procreation of children. This is one of the two ends of Marriage. A “Brotherly-relationship” cannot be a Marriage.

Bro, you may have lost me here. Lots of married couples, Catholic and otherwise, aren’t able to procreate, or simply choose not to do so, surely you’re not questioning the validity of their marriages.

 

[DavidB]

Bro, you may have lost me here. Lots of married couples, Catholic and otherwise, aren’t able to procreate, or simply choose not to do so, surely you’re not questioning the validity of their marriages.

Actually I think he’s saying procreating “ends” the marriage

If what they have is a true asexual friendship, why all the fuss? Why go out of the way to make a “lifelong committment”? Are we kids that we need to cut our palms and shake hands like “blood brothers”?

There has to be a reason for them to seek a bonding committment. If not sexual, despite denials, then what? The only thing I can possibly fathom is some sort of relationship that is jealous of the potential for someone of the opposite sex to one day come in and destroy (by attracting one into marriage) and thus they seek a covenant to preclude one another from such a betrayal. But any way you look at it, I find the idea psychologically unhealthy. If there’s no sex, then we can’t say they are guilty of homosexual sex. On the other hand, Jesus told us not to go around making vows, but to let our ‘yes’ be ‘yes’ and our ‘no’ be ‘no’ . . . in other words they should just say “BFF” and be done with it . . . like Oscar and Felix. So from that perspective, their committment could very well be a sin - making inappropriate vows.

 

[puzzleannie]

Hi,

I know of 2 Catholic individuals of the same gender who have decided to commit themselves to a lifelong relationship. Is their relationship sinful even if they do not engage in same-sex activities?

Thank you.

I have friends I have known all my life, and fully intend to maintain those friendships as long as I live. Please define relationship. I also expect it may come to pass that should something happen to my husband I might share a household with another female friend or relative the rest of my life. By being so vague, you put such an arrangement under suspicion. Is that your intent?

 

[beeliner]

1. I have friends I have known all my life, and fully intend to maintain those friendships as long as I live.
2. I also expect it may come to pass that should something happen to my husband I might share a household with another female friend or relative the rest of my life.
3. By being so vague, you put such an arrangement under suspicion. Is that your intent?

1. Absolutely!
2. Perfectly understandable, and I can’t imagine anyone objecting to that. In fact, three of my aunts moved in together after their husbands died and lived many more years in love and Christian fellowship
3. I didn’t read it that way at all.

What is your assessment of the post (#2) immediately following?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Bro, you may have lost me here. Lots of married couples, Catholic and otherwise, aren’t able to procreate, or simply choose not to do so, surely you’re not questioning the validity of their marriages.

“Male and Female, He created them”, the Church teaches that Marriage is oriented towards the procreation of children. Those who are infertile do not “simply choose not to do so”. I would and the Church does question the validity of a Marriage when they “simply choose not to do so” from the beginning, permanently.

 

[benidict]

Hi,

I know of 2 Catholic individuals of the same gender who have decided to commit themselves to a lifelong relationship. Is their relationship sinful even if they do not engage in same-sex activities?

Thank you.

what kind of lifelong relationship are we talking about? are they homosexual or lebian? or are they just 2 very good friends. david and jonathan loved eachother like brothers, so if its that way then no. but if they are gay, then you have got to be kidding. activity is going to happen. that would be like me living with a woman, and nothing happens… not gonna Happen peace

 

[anothertrekker]

That they abstain from sexual activity is ridiculous in this circumstance. It is more reasonable for a person to think they, like all sexual deviants, lie about their sexual activity. That sexual deviants would abstain from sexual activity is just not believable. Therefore, even if your hypothetical sexual deviants abstain from sexual activity, since no one would reasonably believe that they actually do abstain, they commit the grave sin of scandal.

Please, if you want to ask hypothetical questions, at least choose reasonable or possible circumstances. This one is neither reasonable nor possible.

So they commit the grave sin of scandal just by being a couple?

 

[anothertrekker]

Of course, we cannot see into their hearts and souls. But I would suppose that, if they have same-sex attractions, this situation could be a near occasion of sin for them. That would be a concern, as well as scandal which someone else mentioned.

I have elderly family friends, women, who have lived together for nearly 50 years now. They are not Catholic, and we’ve never been certain of the nature of their relationship. They never really “gave scandal” in my mind because I knew them from childhood and their relationship at least appears totally a-sexual.

As a single woman, frankly, I can see myself entering a practical living relationship with a female friend in the future. If I am unmarried at age 65, for instance, I don’t see what would be wrong with buying a house with or renting to a dear girlfriend who is in similar circumstances…so we can help each other into old age. There doesn’t have to be anything sexual about a living arrangement.

Well, this world is becoming more narrow minded (IMHO) and both of you may just be labeled as partners just because you are living together in a house both of you bought.

 

[anothertrekker]

God’s plan for a successful marriage is that it should be an exclusive sexual relationship with one person, for life. Genesis 2:18-25 describes marriage as a divine institution. God presented Adam with Eve and established the first marriage. Some of God’s purposes for marriage as stated in the Bible are companionship(Genesis 2:18) ,procreation(Genesis 1:28), mutual and undefiled pleasure ( 1 Corinthians 7:4-5,Proverbs 5:18-19 Song of Solomon; Hebrews 13:4), prevention of immorality (1 Corinthians 7:2,5), the serving of Christ as a whole and properly representing the spiritual relationship between Christ and the Church (Ephesians 5:22-33), and the raising of godly descendants (Malachi 2:13-16). The bond of marriage when respected leads to the good of not only the couple and their children, but also to the good of the society as a whole, for the family unit is the building block of any society and nation.

]

So, a Catholic heterosexual couple who are married but have chosen not to have children are committing the grave sin of scandal?

 

[anothertrekker]

I have friends I have known all my life, and fully intend to maintain those friendships as long as I live. Please define relationship. I also expect it may come to pass that should something happen to my husband I might share a household with another female friend or relative the rest of my life. By being so vague, you put such an arrangement under suspicion. Is that your intent?

To the rest of their friends (myself included), they are best friends with similar interests i.e. cooking, outdoor activities etc. They are always together. I know they stay in the same house. I don’t know about their past relationships. Are they a couple? They have not explicitly declared and therefore, I am not going to assume. I don’t know if they sleep in the same room but if they do, then what? I know of many friends who sleep in the same room, on the same bed.

 

[benidict]

So, a Catholic heterosexual couple who are married but have chosen not to have children are committing the grave sin of scandal?

according to scripture, some have chosen to become eunics for the kingdom of heaven. husbands and wives living chosen celebate lives is covered in the scripture if im not mistaken. so… no. peace.