Please explain "Begotten not made"

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How can Jesus be begotten and not made? This is the question posed to my husband from a fallen away Christian at work. He was not a Catholic to begin with, he was a Baptist (?) if I’m not mistaken. He wants to know how Jesus could be born but not be made.

I did find some info on the Catholic Answers Library regarding the eternal sonship of Christ…is there any other info that might easily explain an answer to this question?
 
I think this means he was not made of man- but begotten of God and would be a reference to his immaculate conception.
 
We as Christians believe in the trinity, God the Father, Jesus the Son and The Holy spirit, all three make up God. God has always been in existence even before time, so if God has always been in existence so to were the other two parts the Son and the Holly spirit.That is why it is said "Begotten not made" because he has always been in existence.

Ive not seen but I believe**Ive not seen but i belive**
 
When you make a thing, such as a house, a song or a birthday cake, that thing is just a thing and does not share in the same nature as you, a human person. But when you and your husband beget and bear a child, that child shares in your nature as another human person.

When we affirm that Jesus, God the Son, is begotten, not made, we are affirming that He shares the same Divine Nature as God the Father, and is not only a human person created or made by God the Father.
 
May I ask who wrote “Begotten not made” was it not created at the council that met in NICEA?..in the Nicene creed ??

So it was the belief of the Bishops at that time in the history of the church.
 
“Begotten, not made” has reference to the Second Person of the Trinity, the Divine Word, who became incarnate as Jesus.

“Made” has the connotation of “created.” “Begotten” has the meaning of eternally generated from the Father.

The Father does not create the Son. Rather, the Father, in knowing Himself by the operation of his divine intellect, from all eternity ‘speaks’ the divine Word. There was never any instant that God the Father did not exist, and in existing, know himself, and in knowing himself, generate the Person of the Son.

The Son’s nature is not different or separate from that of the Father. Only in his Person is he distinct.

In the incarnation, it was that Person of the Son, who also assumed a human nature.

The term “begotten, not made” is intended to make clear that the Second Person of the Trinity is not a created being. In fact, he is one being with the Father.
 
am confused, am new here to these threads…I asked a secondary question in reference to the original question…the reply that I received in my mailbox was not in response to my response…but another explaination of :begotten not made…so why did it come to my mailbox…just trying to understand how the posts work…thanks :o
 
Thanks for the help! I’m writing some of this down so that my husband can bring this info back to the guy after lunch.God bless!
 
You should also point out that the Creed was developed after long debate and discussion – to really understand it, you must understand the debate.

The debate was over the nature of Christ. Arius and his followers claimed Jesus was simply a man. The Spirit of God entered this man when he began his mission and departed from him just before he died. The Resurrection was his “reward” for his service.

For a lot of reasons, Arianism is untenable – it makes a mockery of Christianity. The wording chosen in the Creed empahsizes that Christ was not a “thing” that was “made” and cast aside, but God, Himself – of one substance with the Father.
 
JimG said:
“Begotten, not made” has reference to the Second Person of the Trinity, the Divine Word, who became incarnate as Jesus.

“Made” has the connotation of “created.” “Begotten” has the meaning of eternally generated from the Father.

The Father does not create the Son. Rather, the Father, in knowing Himself by the operation of his divine intellect, from all eternity ‘speaks’ the divine Word. There was never any instant that God the Father did not exist, and in existing, know himself, and in knowing himself, generate the Person of the Son.

The Son’s nature is not different or separate from that of the Father. Only in his Person is he distinct.

In the incarnation, it was that Person of the Son, who also assumed a human nature.

The term “begotten, not made” is intended to make clear that the Second Person of the Trinity is not a created being. In fact, he is one being with the Father.
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this is an excellent response…you should print this and give it to your friend…
 
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FightingFat:
I think this means he was not made of man- but begotten of God and would be a reference to his immaculate conception.
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FYI, the Immaculate Conception is in regard to Mary, not Christ.

Mary was protected from Original Sin from her Conception (thus that particular conception was Immaculate)

Christ is God, therefore had no need of protection from this Sin, and was concieved by the power of the Holy Spirit, so his is the Divine Conception.
 
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Brendan:
FYI, the Immaculate Conception is in regard to Mary, not Christ.

Mary was protected from Original Sin from her Conception (thus that particular conception was Immaculate)

Christ is God, therefore had no need of protection from this Sin, and was concieved by the power of the Holy Spirit, so his is the Divine Conception.
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So Jesus wasn’t conceived immaculately?
 
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foxyrox:
am confused, am new here to these threads…I asked a secondary question in reference to the original question…the reply that I received in my mailbox was not in response to my response…but another explaination of :begotten not made…so why did it come to my mailbox…just trying to understand how the posts work…thanks :o
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Probably because in your preferences you checked to be notified whenever someone responds to the topic. You get all responses to the thread, not just to your own posts.

In answer to your question, though (short answer that it must be since I am on a break at work)-- just because a doctrine is defined and explicitely spelled out at a certain council does not mean that it is was created at that council. Typically what happens is that it is a doctrine that has been accepted and believed since the beginning, but only has cause to be explained due to specific heresies that crop up. So, no, it is not really something that the Bishops at that time had come to believe, but something that was believed by Christians already and needed to be reiterated/reinforced.

Hope this helps.
 
a human father begets his child, he does not create his child. God the Father begets the Son in eternity, not in time, there has never been a time, therefore, when the Son, the second Person of the blessed Trinity, did not exist. He is coeternal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Father gives himself, empties himself complete and utterly in perfect love to the Son, eternally, and the Son receives utterly and completely the love of the Father, eternally, and in turn empties and gives himself completely in love to the Father, eternally, who eternally receives this love. This love, eternally proceeding from the Father and Son is the Holy Spirit. This eternal giving and receptivity is the Glory of God.
 
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FightingFat:
So Jesus wasn’t conceived immaculately?
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No. The Immaculate Conception refers to the conception of Mary, not of Jesus. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception states that Mary was conceived without sin.

The Son, the second member of the Trinity, existed long before Mary.
 
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kellyb32:
How can Jesus be begotten and not made? This is the question posed to my husband from a fallen away Christian at work. He was not a Catholic to begin with, he was a Baptist (?) if I’m not mistaken. He wants to know how Jesus could be born but not be made.

I did find some info on the Catholic Answers Library regarding the eternal sonship of Christ…is there any other info that might easily explain an answer to this question?
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Basically it means this:

**John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2: He was in the beginning with God; 3: all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. 4: In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5: The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. **

The objection your husband may run into with the use of the word “begotten” is something different.

Paul uses it to explain Christs resurrection, which is something different when Christ is “first begotten of the dead” Which means He was the first born, or the first to be raised from the dead.

Acts 13:33: this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm, `Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee.’ (references Psalm 2:7, also indicating Christs ascendancy to the throne)

**Col 1:18: He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.
**

For simplicity sake, the first is Christs divinity John 1:1, the second is Christ humanity Acts and Col and enthronement.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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FightingFat:
So Jesus wasn’t conceived immaculately?
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Actually, He was, in the sense that Original Sin was not associated with His human conception.

The Term Immaculate XConception, though, is more correctly understood as a theological term to refer to the conception of Mary, who was also conceived without Original Sin, in anticipation of the Salvific work of Jesus.
 
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foxyrox:
am confused, am new here to these threads…I asked a secondary question in reference to the original question…the reply that I received in my mailbox was not in response to my response…but another explaination of :begotten not made…so why did it come to my mailbox…just trying to understand how the posts work…thanks :o
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I’m not sure, but you probably have your forum settings set to notify you by e-mail whenever anyone replies to a topic you have started.
 
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FightingFat:
So Jesus wasn’t conceived immaculately?
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Christ was Concieved by the Holy Spirt. He could not sin, as it is contrary to the Divine Nature.

His is called the Divine Conception.

Mary, on the other hand, was PREVENTED from falling into sin as a special gift of Grace. She was preserved from sin from the moment of her conception. It was the nature of her conception to be tainted by Original Sin, but God choose for that not to happen.

Thus her conception is called the Immaculate one.

Christ’s conception did not invovle sin, it was not possible for the Divine Nature to be so tainted.

Mary’s could have been, but was not.

That is how they differ.
 
Keep in mind that when Catholics speak of the “Immaculate Conception,” it has nothing to do with sex.

It refers, rather to Mary being conceived without having original sin on her soul. She was conceived, as far as I know, in the normal way, by her parents, but without original sin.

(And she was prevented from having original sin as a result of the merits of her Son, her redeemer.)
 
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