Please explain this Scripture.....Bishops married?

[Teabag]

Can some one please explain this part of Paul? Bishops could be married then?

1 Timothy 3:1-7New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

**Qualifications of Bishops

3 The saying is sure: whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. 2 Now a bishop must be above reproach, married only once, temperate, sensible, respectable, hospitable, an apt teacher, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, and not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way— 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of God’s church? 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may be puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace and the snare of the devil.**

 

[Jesus_123]

Can some one please explain this part of Paul? Bishops could be married then?

1 Timothy 3:1-7New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

**Qualifications of Bishops

3 The saying is sure: whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. 2 Now a bishop must be above reproach, married only once, temperate, sensible, respectable, hospitable, an apt teacher, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, and not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way— 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of God’s church? 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may be puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace and the snare of the devil.**

"**The Church was a thousand years old **before it definitively took a stand in favor of celibacy in the twelfth century at the Second Lateran Council held in 1139, when a rule was approved forbidding priests to marry. In 1563, the Council of Trent reaffirmed the tradition of celibacy."

historynewsnetwork.org/article/696​

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/696[/INDENT][/INDENT]​

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/696[/INDENT][/INDENT]

We do have a few married Roman Catholic priests even in this day and age. Men who have come from other Christian ecclesial communities whom our Holy Mother Church has prayerfully found that indeed the LORD was calling them into the Roman Catholic priesthood. We have one of these priests in our diocese here and he is profoundly Catholic and sound in the Faith and Catholic doctrine.

The apostle Simon Peter was a married man when ***Christ Jesus *. . . his beloved LORD . . . called him to follow Him **. . . as is evidenced in the portions of Sacred :bible1: Scripture below:

“[29] And immediately going out of the synagogue they came into the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John. [30] And Simon’ s wife’ s mother lay in a fit of a fever: and forthwith they tell Him (Jesus) of her. [31] And coming to her, He lifted her up, taking her by the hand; and immediately the fever left her, and she ministered unto them.” Mark 1:29-31​

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . praise God from Whom all blessings flow+​

 

[SJacob7]

Very likely all the apostles were married except Paul. As Paul states below:

1 Corinthians 9:5

Do we not have the right to be accompanied by a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Bishops were married, or not, for quite some time in the early Church. If I remember correctly, historian JND Kelly says that 39 popes were married. Anglicans and Lutherans have married Bishops. Eastern Orthodox do not.

 

[3_Dog_Night]

I understand the celibacy of clergy, priests (and bishops and cardinals), and religious as a “discipline” of the Church – rather than a “set in stone, can never be changed” type of thing. There are married priests from other denominations who have been granted special permission by the Pope to become priests. There is a priest in my diocese who is married, has four children (now all grown adults) and grandchildren. He was a Methodist minister who converted to Catholicism – granted special permission by the Pope.

He is an absolutely a wonderful, wonderful priest. I suppose it should go without saying that he is very much a devoted Catholic. (He converted because of the Eucharist, the liturgy and the sacraments – basically doctrinal truths lacking in the Protestant faith.)

The “set in stone, can never be changed” is the matter of “male only” priesthood. Women cannot be ordained as priests, bishops, cardinals – ever – because Jesus Christ only chose men to be his apostles. It was only men who were chosen as deacons and bishops. Women, obviously, can be followers and disciples of Christ, and one of his first disciples was his very own mother. But, as I understand it, women can never be ordained to the priesthood. There are probably “official” terms for my very layperson’s explanation.

 

[phil19034]

There are two different things going on here.

In regards to married priests: The Catholic Church allows married men to become priests. Always has. HOWEVER, the Roman Rite (the Latin Church) has a discipline requiring the Latin Church to ordain only celibate men (unless there is a special dispensation, like an Anglican priest becoming a Catholic Priest). This is mostly because Latin parishes are often quite large and it allows the priests to be 100% dedicated to his sheep, and not have to worry about splitting time between family and flock.

However, the eastern Catholics (and Orthodox) do allow married men to become priests. Eastern parishes are often smaller than Latin ones. So the priest to flock ratio is much smaller. For example, it’s not uncommon to see tons of small churches/chapels in Greece.

So in the West, the need for celibacy is not just based on the teachings of St. Paul, but also kind of needed due to logistics.

HOWEVER, in BOTH the East and West (both Catholic and Orthodox), married men are not allowed to become Bishops. This has been the norm since before the Oriental Orthodox split from the Church in the 300s.

Additionally, ordained men cannot get married at all. The only exception would be if they have young children after the death of their wife and receive a dispensation.

NOW THE REASON:
The idea of having celibate Bishops is because being a Bishop is basically an around the clock job. Bishops typically wake up before the sun to start praying and work late into the evening. The demands of the vocation are so great that if they did have a family, one would suffer (either the flock or the families). Since Latin parishes are so big, the same idea is applied to Priests in the west.

Bishops are limited to one wife for basically the same reason. One would assume, that if a man was married more than once, he would either have a number of children OR had been divorced. Being divorced would have been extremely problematic for a Bishop (and a priest for that matter). And a Bishop remarrying would automatically increase the chances that he has young children to take care (especially back when the life expectancy was much lower than it is today).

Additionally, apparently, there was also issues regarding gifts to Bishops from parishes and lay people. Did those items below to the Church after the Bishop’s death or his family? Also, before the creation of colleges and seminaries, the most learned men learned in monasteries. Monks were single. So it was natural to select Bishops from among the learned Monks.

Finally, there is also a tradition (lower case t) that St. Peter’s wife may have already died before he met Jesus. The reason for this is the simply fact that she is NEVER mentioned. Also because Peter’s mother in law prepped a dinner once, and not his wife. In Jewish society, Peter’s wife would have had that role. The fact that his mother-in-law did it seems to suggest that perhaps Peter’s wife had already died.

God Bless!

 

[QNDNNDQDCE]

The other thing that many people do not realize is that even when clergy were married, they did not necessarily have sexual relations with their wives. We see this, for example, in the canons of the Council of Carthage in the early 400s, where this discipline is affirmed for bishops, priests and deacons.

Canon 3.

Aurelius the bishop said: When at the past councilthe matter on continency and chastity was considered, those three grades, which by a sort of bond are joined to chastity by their consecration, to wit bishops, presbyters, and deacons, so it seemed that it was becoming that the sacredrulers and priests of God as well as the Levites, or those who served at the divine sacraments, should be continent altogether, by which they would be able with singleness of heart to ask what they sought from the Lord: so that what the apostles taught and antiquity kept, that we might also keep.

newadvent.org/fathers/3816.htm

Here’s an article from the Vatican website that goes over the history of clerical celibacy and clerical continence.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_cclergy_doc_01011993_chisto_en.html

Interestingly, some of the Church fathers say that St. Paul was married. If so, the biblical evidence would suggest that either his wife was deceased or thag he practiced perpetual continence.

 

[Sy_Noe]

There are two different things going on here.

In regards to married priests: The Catholic Church allows married men to become priests. Always has. HOWEVER, the Roman Rite (the Latin Church) has a discipline requiring the Latin Church to ordain only celibate men (unless there is a special dispensation, like an Anglican priest becoming a Catholic Priest). This is mostly because Latin parishes are often quite large and it allows the priests to be 100% dedicated to his sheep, and not have to worry about splitting time between family and flock.

However, the eastern Catholics (and Orthodox) do allow married men to become priests. Eastern parishes are often smaller than Latin ones. So the priest to flock ratio is much smaller. For example, it’s not uncommon to see tons of small churches/chapels in Greece.

So in the West, the need for celibacy is not just based on the teachings of St. Paul, but also kind of needed due to logistics.

HOWEVER, in BOTH the East and West (both Catholic and Orthodox), married men are not allowed to become Bishops. This has been the norm since before the Oriental Orthodox split from the Church in the 300s.

Additionally, ordained men cannot get married at all. The only exception would be if they have young children after the death of their wife and receive a dispensation.

NOW THE REASON:
The idea of having celibate Bishops is because being a Bishop is basically an around the clock job. Bishops typically wake up before the sun to start praying and work late into the evening. The demands of the vocation are so great that if they did have a family, one would suffer (either the flock or the families). Since Latin parishes are so big, the same idea is applied to Priests in the west.

Bishops are limited to one wife for basically the same reason. One would assume, that if a man was married more than once, he would either have a number of children OR had been divorced. Being divorced would have been extremely problematic for a Bishop (and a priest for that matter). And a Bishop remarrying would automatically increase the chances that he has young children to take care (especially back when the life expectancy was much lower than it is today).

God Bless!

But there are Episcopal parishes near me with as many as 4 services on weekends. There are Catholic parishes with upwards of 6 or 7. But some of the Episcopal parishes near me and all of the large Catholic ones have not just one priest but associate priests as well serving their congregations. And the Episcopal churches all have married priests. And I know 2 of the nearest Episcopal churches have former Catholic priests and a 3rd Episcopal parish will also have a former Catholic priest beginning in Dec as they just recently called a new one. And I would venture to say an Anglican bishop’s work is demanding too. Yet it all seems to work out. God bless you too!

 

[Robyn_p]

But there are Episcopal parishes near me with as many as 4 services on weekends. There are Catholic parishes with upwards of 6 or 7. But some of the Episcopal parishes near me and all of the large Catholic ones have not just one priest but associate priests as well serving their congregations. And the Episcopal churches all have married priests. And I know 2 of the nearest Episcopal churches have former Catholic priests and a 3rd Episcopal parish will also have a former Catholic priest beginning in Dec as they just recently called a new one. And I would venture to say an Anglican bishop’s work is demanding too. Yet it all seems to work out. God bless you too!

Of course it’s not impossible to do both, but it does make things more difficult. This seems undeniable to me.

That said, this is only one of the reasons the Church in the west decided to do it this way. There’s also other, more theological, reasons behind the discipline. It doesn’t all revolve around practicality.

 

[J_Peterson]

Very likely all the apostles were married except Paul. As Paul states below:

1 Corinthians 9:5

Do we not have the right to be accompanied by a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?

St. John was also unmarried. He died a virgin.

 

[phil19034]

But there are Episcopal parishes near me with as many as 4 services on weekends. There are Catholic parishes with upwards of 6 or 7. But some of the Episcopal parishes near me and all of the large Catholic ones have not just one priest but associate priests as well serving their congregations. And the Episcopal churches all have married priests. And I know 2 of the nearest Episcopal churches have former Catholic priests and a 3rd Episcopal parish will also have a former Catholic priest beginning in Dec as they just recently called a new one. And I would venture to say an Anglican bishop’s work is demanding too. Yet it all seems to work out. God bless you too!

Sy Noe: these are just SOME of the reasons. There are also theological reasons too.

But here is another logistical reason: Do you know how much money Episcopal priests and bishops make?

ehow.com/info_11368571_salary-episcopal-bishop.html
cpg.org/linkservid/9EA19B69-E51C-2020-68004D03258D2055/showMeta/0/
They also receive housing.

With the Methodist, the bishops all make (as of 2014) $141,400 per year, plus housing.
umc.org/who-we-are/frequently-asked-questions-about-the-council-of-bishops#How-much-do-bishops-get-paid

Catholic priests and Bishops make NOTHING compared to the episcopal bishops and Methodist.

catholicdigest.com/articles/faith/knowledge/2007/10-01/how-much-money-does-a-parish-priest-make

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Sy Noe: these are just SOME of the reasons. There are also theological reasons too.

But here is another logistical reason: Do you know how much money Episcopal priests and bishops make?

ehow.com/info_11368571_salary-episcopal-bishop.html
cpg.org/linkservid/9EA19B69-E51C-2020-68004D03258D2055/showMeta/0/
They also receive housing.

With the Methodist, the bishops all make (as of 2014) $141,400 per year, plus housing.
umc.org/who-we-are/frequently-asked-questions-about-the-council-of-bishops#How-much-do-bishops-get-paid

Catholic priests and Bishops make NOTHING compared to the episcopal bishops and Methodist.

catholicdigest.com/articles/faith/knowledge/2007/10-01/how-much-money-does-a-parish-priest-make

Well then that needs to change, doesn’t it? Seminary costs a lot of money - you are talking three to four years of graduate school. Clergy I know come out with huge student loan debts. I imagine that RC students have equal amounts of money to consider. I think that the days of priests and religious doing their jobs for pennies is long over.

 

[phil19034]

Well then that needs to change, doesn’t it? Seminary costs a lot of money - you are talking three to four years of graduate school. Clergy I know come out with huge student loan debts. I imagine that RC students have equal amounts of money to consider. I think that the days of priests and religious doing their jobs for pennies is long over.

That’s not going to change. The money they receive is enough for them to pay their student loans or graduate school tuition bill (if they have one), go to the movies, take a vacation, visit family, enjoy their hobbies, etc.

They typically don’t need more money. And the few who are married, are teachers, etc. so they cannot be pastors (unless they are part of the Anglican Use)

The only change I foresee possibly happening is for married Deacons to be allowed to become ordained priests once they no longer have children to support.

But they would not be allowed to become pastors and they would live in their own homes and not receive a salary (just like the Permanent Deacons). I could see this as a “dispensation” and not the norm, and only for invited Deacons.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

And the few who are married, are teachers, etc. so they cannot be pastors (unless they are part of the Anglican Use)
.

I don’t believe that is accurate. There are quite a few former Anglican priests who are assigned to parishes. Not Anglican use, but converted beforehand and brought their wives and children.

 

[Duane1966]

Very likely all the apostles were married except Paul. As Paul states below:

1 Corinthians 9:5

Do we not have the right to be accompanied by a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?

That is a bad translation. The Greek word translates better to sister, or woman, but not wife. The KJV and the D-R translate that passage as sister.

 

[Duane1966]

Bishops were married, or not, for quite some time in the early Church. If I remember correctly, historian JND Kelly says that 39 popes were married. Anglicans and Lutherans have married Bishops. Eastern Orthodox do not.

What was also held from the earliest times, and JND Kelly affirms, was that in both East and West, if a married man became a priest, or a deacon, they were expected to practice perfect continence.

 

[Duane1966]

I don’t believe that is accurate. There are quite a few former Anglican priests who are assigned to parishes. Not Anglican use, but converted beforehand and brought their wives and children.

They cannot be a pastor. An associate yes, but pastor no.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

They cannot be a pastor. An associate yes, but pastor no.

They still have to support a family on a parish priest’s salary, which as stated earlier, is pittance.

And if priests have a family, then time must be allocated for them. One argument I hear on these boards is that priests must be celibate in order to do a good job caring for parishioners. Speaking as an Anglican, where most of our priests are married with families, they have learned (along with many other clergy) to do both. A challenge, but doable.

 

[otjm]

What was also held from the earliest times, and JND Kelly affirms, was that in both East and West, if a married man became a priest, or a deacon, they were expected to practice perfect continence.

And they didn’t, which is why the Church repeatedly ruled they must.

 

[otjm]

They still have to support a family on a parish priest’s salary, which as stated earlier, is pittance.

And if priests have a family, then time must be allocated for them. One argument I hear on these boards is that priests must be celibate in order to do a good job caring for parishioners. Speaking as an Anglican, where most of our priests are married with families, they have learned (along with many other clergy) to do both. A challenge, but doable.

While I realize that a pastor has a vocation, the same could be said for attorneys, CPAs, small business owners, management in large companies, doctors, and everyone else out there who does not work a 9 to 5 or 8 to 5 job. Society is replete with individuals who have extensive and time-consuming responsibilities, and the manage to have families.

The “time” issue is a red herring.