Please, explain what I should do

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JesusReigns

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I have studied rigorously my way into the Church. I understand and accept most doctrine. I have been through much spiritual and physical torment in my walk with Christ. I have been in many spiritual atmospheres, wandering where His church was. Studying catholicism and meant to be confirmed at the upcoming Easter vigil, i have found the most rich and true church, and yet I’m not sure anymore. I have found that many popes and Saints apparently said that Salvation can be through Mary. This is bothering me :confused:

PAX
 
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Can you quote the writings you find problematic?

The Church does not teach that salvation comes through the Blessed Virgin Mary. It teaches salvation comes through Jesus. Just consider the words of the liturgy. The center of the Mass is Jesus’ sacrifice.

Mary was an instrument in God’s plan of salvation. And therefore she was an ‘instrumental cause’ of our salvation. This is a philosophical term which you can research to better understand. This is no different than if you, through your witness as a Christian, led someone to convert.

Except the Blessed Virgin has a much more important role than you or I. She alone was chosen to bring a God into this world. This honor and fact means that she is an instrument in the salvation of us all. If you believe that Jesus was born of Mary then you shouldn’t object to the idea that she is a an instrument, not the instrument, of our salvation.
 
JesusReigns said:
Why should I stay? Give me one good excuse for this. It’s ridiculous.
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I find it interesting you are so ready to “leave” and you have already made up your mind about these writings. You haven’t asked “what does this mean” or “how am I to understand this in the context of Salvation History and Christ as the Incarnation, the Messiah, the Savior.”

No, you’ve gone right to “this is ridiculous” and “this is appalling” and “this sickens me”.

So, ask yourself why you are so ready to assume the worst, and so reticent to try to understand what writers are actually saying?

The Church contains the fullness of Truth. Things that are difficult to understand should not cause concern. They should be seen only as something to dig further into to bear spiritual fruit.
 
It’s not that I’m eager to leave the church, I’m weary in my spirit I guess… I want to stay, but if these writings are what I think it is, then I have to leave, though I dread to. *Nothing comes to us except through the mediation of Mary, for such is the will of God. O Virgin Most Holy, no one abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; no one O Mother of God, attains salvation except through thee! Every one of the multitudes, therefore, whom the evil of calamitous circumstances has stolen away from Catholic unity, must be born again to Christ by that same Mother whom God has endowed with a never-failing fertility to bring forth a holy people. **Pope Leo XIII
 
It’s not some lie, we do not say Mary is the one who saves us like that, but that she was chosen to bring us Christ Jesus, and as such she is necessary in the history of salvation.
In a like way, as the Holy Ghost and Mary brought the world to Jesus, still the Holy Ghost and Mary bring Jesus to our souls.

Do not forget: Mary’s soul magnifies the Lord.
She brings us to Christ.

When we say it is impossible to be saved without a devotion to Mary, though it is also probable exaggeration, what we mean is not theoretically impossible, but practically impossible, as she brings one to Christ, and is our mother spiritually, and chosen to be the mediatrix of all Graces. Like a magnifying glass, she exemplifies and shows to us how a Christian should be, and brings us to Christ.
As we are mere sinners, we ask our queen, the mother of our Lord, to polish our weak, dirty prayers and present them to God, nice and clean. We know we are not worthy. So we ask those who are more worthy to also intercede for us, and indeed the prayers of the righteous are powerful.

Jesus is our salvation.
Mary brings us to Jesus, who brings us to the Father.

I reccomend looking through careful theological explanations and seek understanding and not outrage.

Also remember that many of these are like love songs. A love song would look ridiculous in a police investigation and read in court! So it is exaggerated in certain senses.
 
I can recommend the Catechism:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm

And Lumen Gentium (Vatican II document).

particularly:

970 “Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it.”

"No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source
 
Satan is messing with your head, JR. What does being a Christian mean to you? What does it mean to be a member of His Church?

I was born to a Catholic father and a Protestant mother. Prior to moving to the South, I didn’t know what a “Protestant” was and only attended Catholic Churches. My mother had promised to raise me Catholic and went to Mass with me. I found out what Protestant churches were after our move and went because as I told Mama, I didn’t want to interrupt my teachings about Jesus. I went to those other churches while Mama looked for the nearest Catholic Church.

The day came when I had to choose whether I was going to remain Catholic or continue attending Protestant churches where their teachings of Jesus always left me upset and in tears. I prayed to God for guidance and receiving my answer in a very eye opening way, left Protestant churches behind and returned to the Catholic Church full time.

Salvation through Mary? Well, if you want to get technical about it, Jesus was in her womb for nine months and then was born. Jesus is our Salvation. Focus on that. Mary points the way to Him (“Do whatever He tells you”). She herself is not a deity. None of the Saints who love Mary claim she is. Neither do we. She is HIS Mother. And for that reason, we love her. But the Mass is not about Mary. It is about Jesus, our Savior. Pay attention at Mass and you will see that Mary isn’t mentioned much at all. The focus is on Our Lord.

Don’t let your heart be troubled that the Saints would speak of Mary being the one through whom salvation flows. They’re exalting the birth of He who is our Salvation through this humble handmaid of the Lord.

I’ll tell you that before I returned to the Church full time, I heard my share of the sex crazed priests who preyed on innocent children. That is the main thing Satan was using to keep me from returning to and remaining in the Church Jesus is the Founder of. But I had a long talk with Jesus. And I told Him I knew He wouldn’t allow me to be in a church He wasn’t present in and watching over. And I walked into my church home knowing that I was doing His will and that His Truth would prevail.

Even though there are still things I have trouble with, I take the time to research them and learn the truth. And I am happy to say that I haven’t regretted my choice for one moment.
 
JesusReigns said:
Every one of the multitudes, therefore, whom the evil of calamitous circumstances has stolen away from Catholic unity, must be born again to Christ by that same Mother whom God has endowed with a never-failing fertility to bring forth a holy people. **Pope Leo XIII
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You quoted Pope Leo XIII… now can you tell us where that quote came from? One should always check the original source to ensure that the quote is both accurate and as to the correct context in which it is to be used.
 
With a Protestant mindset, this does seem troubling indeed. In my opinion, this is in no way troubling to me when I think about it from the Catholic perspective. You see, Mary is our spiritual mother. She guides us to Jesus and advocates on our behalf.
 
It looks like your quote, or really part of it, might come from ‘Encyclical Of Pope Leo XIII on the Rosary, 5 September 1895’

https://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/marye4.htm

Part of your quote is in fact a quote of St. Germain of Constantinople. Specifically from something about the Dormition of Mary. So this quote takes us back to the 7th century. It also shows Eastern Christians had the same great reverence for the Blessed Virgin.

So you have all the apostolic Churches, from even the early days of Christianity, showing a great reverence to Mary. This isn’t a Catholic thing.

Stop a minute and think. Do you really believe the Church had it so wrong for most of its existence? Do you think only very recent Protestant points of view, which throw out significant Christian doctrine and can’t agree on anything, have it right that any recognition of Mary’s instrumentality is wrong?
 
JesusReigns said:
I have studied rigorously my way into the Church. I understand and accept most doctrine. I have been through much spiritual and physical torment in my walk with Christ. I have been in many spiritual atmospheres, wandering where His church was. Studying catholicism and meant to be confirmed at the upcoming Easter vigil, i have found the most rich and true church, and yet I’m not sure anymore.
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I understand.
I have found that many popes and Saints apparently said that Slavation can be through Mary. This is appalling and sickens me and saddens. It agitated me because I thought I found truth, and yet there is a lie everywhere. Some may say that it is not doctrine to go to God through Mary, yet the church has apparently approved the writings of St. Louis de Mon Fort, which express salvation through mary. Why should I stay? Give me one good excuse for this.
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Because it’s true.
It’s ridiculous.
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No. If Jesus Christ is your salvation, He came to you, through Mary. Mary is the person who brought Him to this world when she accepted God’s will.

You do understand that you and I can also bring people to salvation, right?

1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Mary also can bring people to salvation. But she does it in a more exalted way.
PAX
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You too.
 
The Church does not say that Mary aids us by her own power! It is by God’s will and it is his grace—his power alone. Mary is willing to do his will.

Without God’s plan she is just like the rest of us. (Yes she is full of grace, but she would not have been without God’s plan.)

Conversely, God without Mary is not diminished. He could have saved us however he chose, and he did. He chose this way.

It is not the Church’s will that God gave Mary a unique role. It is the Church’s observation that Mary has a unique role because God willed it.

She cooperated perfectly with his plan.

We don’t ask her to pray for us only because she is Mary. We ask all of the angels and all of the saints and our friends on earth to pray for us. Because she perfectly followed God’s will and was full of grace (conceived without sin) we know her intercession to be most beneficial.

Devotion to Mary always always always leads to deeper faith in God and obedience to his will. It never separates or detracts or steals from our worship of God. If it did, the Church would have never allowed it, accepted it, observed that it was good, believed it—however you want to phrase it.

It would not be in the Church if it was against God, because God is the authority of the Church. He promised to protect us from bonehead maneuvers like that. We trust the Church because Christ promised and sent the Holy Spirit as his guarantee.

If you can’t trust the Church quite yet, trust Christ.

Matthew 16:18

18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
 
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I want to thank you greatly for your reply. What you say about satan is true. Last night is when I learned about this and was very troubled. I was afraid it was all wrong, repented to God (thinking my seeking of the Church was wrong) laid down in prayers and clinging close to Jesus and grief. While asleep, the devil or a demon (being a black shadowy figure) could be seen in my spirits vision as I was paralyzed in another spiritual state and it made it way to me. It took its hand and put it on my head. I of course denounced him Jesus name. You have clearly confirmed his control on my mind and fear as of late. Please pray for me. May God bless you
 
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Thank you so much, JR. You, of course, are in my prayers. Satan tends to use the things we are most sensitive about, in my case, it’s sexual abuse of children, to keep us away from the Truth which we find in Jesus. The Catholic Church has always taught His Truth and always will. We must always call on the Holy Name of Jesus to keep Satan at bay. Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. But He will allow us to go through things that in the end, make us stronger in our walk with Him.

God love and bless you always.
 
JesusReigns said:
It’s not that I’m eager to leave the church, I’m weary in my spirit I guess… I want to stay, but if these writings are what I think it is, then I have to leave, though I dread to. *Nothing comes to us except through the mediation of Mary, for such is the will of God. O Virgin Most Holy, no one abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; no one O Mother of God, attains salvation except through thee! Every one of the multitudes, therefore, whom the evil of calamitous circumstances has stolen away from Catholic unity, must be born again to Christ by that same Mother whom God has endowed with a never-failing fertility to bring forth a holy people. **Pope Leo XIII
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Whenever, I come across something I don’t quit understand I usually say to myself…

These writings MUST NOT BE saying what I think they are saying. I must be taking something out of context or missing something.

One thing I always keep in mind is that there is always two sides to every story. One is right and one is wrong. It is up to us to make sure we pick the right side and not jump to conclusions.

Anyway, I always give the Church the benefit of the doubt. No institution on the face of the earth has lasted for 2000 years, I figure they must be doing something right.

I did a quick search of this site and found a really good article that might help clear some of this up for you.


I hope it help show that everything we say about Mary just shines that much more light on her son.

Will be praying for you and looking forward to the day I can officially say, Welcome Home.

God Bless
 
It’s useful to think “what if Mary had said no…?”
 
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JesusReigns said:
I have studied rigorously my way into the Church. I understand and accept most doctrine. I have been through much spiritual and physical torment in my walk with Christ. I have been in many spiritual atmospheres, wandering where His church was. Studying catholicism and meant to be confirmed at the upcoming Easter vigil, i have found the most rich and true church, and yet I’m not sure anymore. I have found that many popes and Saints apparently said that Slavation can be through Mary. This is appalling and sickens me and saddens. It agitated me because I thought I found truth, and yet there is a lie everywhere. Some may say that it is not doctrine to go to God through Mary, yet the church has apparently approved the writings of St. Louis de Mon Fort, which express salvation through mary. Why should I stay? Give me one good excuse for this. It’s ridiculous.

PAX
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OK EXACTLY WHo, When and WHERE is this supposed to have taken place. I’m a trained Catholic Catechist and have NEVER even heard these accusations.

So my friend, PROVE your claims and then expect a response.

May GOD guise your path,

Patrick [PJM]
 
My friendz I am not here to attack. I simply (though unwittingly) was expressing frustration in my walk coming into the Church. This is not me accusing, it’s rather me fed up with finding little tid bits here and there that throw me for a loop and not sure what to do. Yesany anti catholic websites portray these quotes, but also pro Catholic websites do. I just don’t understand Mary delivering things through her hands either… This scares me… Idk… I just thought I found truth, but this stuff is scary and I do not want to offend God by being part of evil. That’s all, a hearts intent to serve God. Here are some sources, perhaps you could elaborate or maybe debunk this? Also, the guy who is being my support through RCIA has even said devotion is a necessary thing. Now I may need to check with him again about this and make sure I heard him right (it was through text) but it’s seems as though church is saying that it’s through Mary I found Jesus. I’m not saying this is absolutely whats being taught, however many seem to believe it. Here are the sources, God bless
http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/mary18a.htm


Now I know the last link is not official church catechism or anything, but it’s a very traditional and serious page that supports the church with some pretty good teachings honestly. They are not sedevancantists
 
Think of it this way, without Mary and her “yes” we wouldn’t have Jesus.

The question is, what does Jesus want you to do concerning His mother? I would pray to Jesus to find that out. Some things are better answered by prayer.

If you pray to God, I am 100% sure you will find your answer.

Mary can help us come to Christ, insofar as she helps us, she is an important part of the faith. Being Catholic means accepting the fact that Mary loves us, prays for us, wants us to love her son more and more.

There is nothing wrong with asking Mary to help us become more holy and to pray for us, now and at the hour of our death.
 
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