Please explain what Valid Holy Orders are

[Tommy999]

Hello,
I am a Protestant inquirer and have heard the term, “Holy Orders” used in Catholicism but I don’t know what it means in context.

For example, 'Orthodox Christians, and members of a few other Christian churches **with valid holy orders **and a valid Eucharist, are allowed to receive Communion when attending Catholic Masses.

If you would, please help me understand what ‘holy orders’ means and what groups have them. Much obliged. :tiphat:

 

[OraLabora]

Deacons, priests and bishops. A Church with valid holy orders means that its clergy can show apostolic succession right back to the original apostles.

 

[Tommy999]

Deacons, priests and bishops. A Church with valid holy orders means that its clergy can show apostolic succession right back to the original apostles.

Ok, thanks, OraLabora. That helps a lot. Do any churches fit that criteria besides Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox?

 

[pablope]

Ok, thanks, OraLabora. That helps a lot. Do any churches fit that criteria besides Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox?

As far as I know, none. Only the Catholic and Orthodox churches have maintained “valid” apostolic succession.

As you can see, you can trace the lineage of the following sees to the Apostles themselves:

orthodoxwiki.org/List_of_Patriarchs_of_Jerusalem

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Patriarchs_of_Alexandria

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Patriarchs_of_Antioch

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ecumenical_Patriarchs_of_Constantinople

 

[Tommy999]

As far as I know, none. Only the Catholic and Orthodox churches have maintained “valid” apostolic succession.

As you can see, you can trace the lineage of the following sees to the Apostles themselves:

orthodoxwiki.org/List_of_Patriarchs_of_Jerusalem

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Patriarchs_of_Alexandria

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Patriarchs_of_Antioch

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ecumenical_Patriarchs_of_Constantinople

Hi Pablope,
Thanks a lot for your usual helpfulness. I took a look at the links and I get a better feel for how the succession continued from the apostles throughout the centuries. Thanks again!
Is Holy Orders is considered a sacrament?

 

[SyroMalankara]

Holy Orders are one of the indicators of Apostolicity.

The True Church of Christ has four marks:

One (Unity)
Holy (It is the Mystical Body of Christ)
Catholic (Universal, Completeness, lacking in nothing essential)
Apostolic (Directly of the Apostles) – Holy Orders are part of Apostolicity

 

[Vico]

Hello,
I am a Protestant inquirer and have heard the term, “Holy Orders” used in Catholicism but I don’t know what it means in context.

For example, 'Orthodox Christians, and members of a few other Christian churches **with valid holy orders **and a valid Eucharist, are allowed to receive Communion when attending Catholic Masses.

If you would, please help me understand what ‘holy orders’ means and what groups have them. Much obliged. :tiphat:

Certainly there must be valid apostolic succession, and this requires also the intention to do what the Church intends with ordination. The Anglican Church lost the succession through a change of intention.

Apostolic succession has been maintained by the 24 Catholic sui iuris churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, the six Oriental Orthodox churches, and the Eastern Orthodox, the Old Catholic, and Polish National Churches. There may be some more that I am not aware of.

Valid Catholic holy orders are based upon a few factors, some of them are:

CIC
Can. 1012 The minister of sacred ordination is a consecrated bishop.
Can. 1024 A baptized male alone receives sacred ordination validly.
Can. 1025 §1. To confer the presbyteral or diaconal orders licitly, it is required that the candidate, having completed the period of probation according to the norm of law, is endowed in the judgment of his own bishop or of the competent major superior with the necessary qualities, is prevented by no irregularity and no impediment, and has fulfilled the prerequisites according to the norm of ⇒ cann. 1033-1039. Moreover, the documents mentioned in ⇒ can. 1050 are to be obtained and the investigation mentioned in ⇒ can. 1051 is to be completed.
§2. Furthermore, it is required that he is considered in the judgment of the same legitimate superior as useful for the ministry of the Church.
§3. The bishop ordaining his own subject who is destined to the service of another diocese must be sure that the one to be ordained is going to be attached to this other diocese.

 

[Tommy999]

Thanks, SyroMalankara and Vico. I think I have a much better picture now.

Vico,
When you said, “The Anglican Church lost the succession through a change of intention”.

Did that occur when Henry VIII broke from the Catholic Church?

 

[SyroMalankara]

Thanks, SyroMalankara and Vico. I think I have a much better picture now.

Vico,
When you said, “The Anglican Church lost the succession through a change of intention”.

Did that occur when Henry VIII broke from the Catholic Church?

Soon after. The Elizabethan Reform is often cited: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabethan_Religious_Settlement

This changed the intent and wording of the ordination Rite away from the Apostolic handed down Tradition.

 

[pianistclare]

Hi Pablope,
Thanks a lot for your usual helpfulness. I took a look at the links and I get a better feel for how the succession continued from the apostles throughout the centuries. Thanks again!
Is Holy Orders is considered a sacrament?

Holy Orders IS a Sacrament. Deacons are the only people who can receive all 7 sacraments, since they are ordained, but often, married as well.

 

[Tommy999]

Soon after. The Elizabethan Reform is often cited: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabethan_Religious_Settlement

This changed the intent and wording of the ordination Rite away from the Apostolic handed down Tradition.

Got it. Thanks, SyroMalankara.

 

[Tommy999]

Holy Orders IS a Sacrament. Deacons are the only people who can receive all 7 sacraments, since they are ordained, but often, married as well.

Thanks, Clare. When I was looking at a list of the seven sacraments, I thought I remembered seeing *Holy Orders *in there somewhere.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Holy Orders IS a Sacrament. Deacons are the only people who can receive all 7 sacraments, since they are ordained, but often, married as well.

Generally speaking of course.

Both the Ordinariate and Orthodox Priests can be married as well!

---

One thing not yet mentioned is that for valid Holy a Orders both “form” and “intent” are needed in addition to a valid Bishop to perform the ordination.

Since I am replying, I will give the obligatory “many Anglican Orders are actually valid” but they are not recognized by the RCC due to various ecclesiastical and political issues.

And the obligatory RC response “no they’re not”.

Then the often stated retort “if you apply the same standard to RC Orders that is being used to deny Anglican Orders, the RCC wouldn’t have valid Orders either”.

Then insert as many back and forth “yes they are” then “no they’re not” in various forms until people get tired of it or a moderator threatens to close it due to lack of charity. Throw in a well researched and witty comment by GKC with a conclusion that we Anglicans certainly are “motley”, and each side ending fully convinced they once again have proven to the world they are correct…and you have the entire 42 post RC/Anglican argument that goes on about every 3 1/2 weeks summed up in less than 1 post.

Thanks for asking

 

[JerryZ]

Baptism, Confirmation (Chrismation), Holy Orders, Anoint of the sick all use sacred oil.

Although there is 3 different oils the Church prepares and blesses at Easter. In fact Pope Francis celebrated in the Vatican this ceremony “Chrism mass” this and every Easter as did ALL the Bishops of the whole world.

There are three kinds of sacred oils, all of which signify the work of the Holy Spirit and symbolize it in that oil “serves to sweeten, to strengthen, to render supple” (Catholic Encyclopedia). The three holy oils are:

The Oil of Catechumens (“Oleum Catechumenorum” or “Oleum Sanctum”)
Used in Baptism along with water, in the consecration of churches, in the blessing of Altars, in the ordination of priests, and, sometimes, in the crowning of Catholic kings and queens.

The Holy Chrism (“Sanctum Chrisma”) or “Oil of Gladness,”
Which is olive oil mixed with a small amount of balm or balsam. It is used in Confirmation, Baptism, in the consecration of a Bishop, the consecration of a various things such as churches, chalices, patens, and bells.

The Oil of the Sick (“Oleum Infirmorum”),
which is used in Unction

Lest any one accuse the Catholics of sorcery…

Exodus 30:22-25 “And the Lord spoke to Moses, Saying: Take spices, of principal and chosen myrrh five hundred sicles, and of cinnamon half so much, that is, two hundred and fifty sicles, of calamus in like manner two hundred and fifty. And of cassia five hundred sicles by the weight of the sanctuary, of oil of olives the measure hin: And thou shalt make the holy oil of unction, an ointment compounded after the art of the perfumer…”

James 5:14 “Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.”

---

 

[Jon_S_1]

Holy Orders IS a Sacrament. Deacons are the only people who can receive all 7 sacraments, since they are ordained, but often, married as well.

Don’t forget about Eastern Rite priests!

 

[SyroMalankara]

Don’t forget about Eastern Rite priests!

Technically pianistclare is correct, since all priests - married Eastern, married Western, Orthodox, or Assyrian - are first ordained deacons.

 

[Vico]

Thanks, SyroMalankara and Vico. I think I have a much better picture now.

Vico,
When you said, “The Anglican Church lost the succession through a change of intention”.

Did that occur when Henry VIII broke from the Catholic Church?

No, it was after Henry VIII, during the reign of his son, king from January 28, 1547 to July 6, 1553, who died at age 15.On the Nullity of Anglican Orders, Apostolicae Curae, Promulgated September 18, 1896 by Pope Leo XIII

1. For an opinion already prevalent, confirmed more than once by the action and constant practice of the Church, maintained that when in England, shortly after it was rent from the center of Christian Unity, a new rite for conferring Holy Orders was publicly introduced under Edward VI, the true Sacrament of Order as instituted by Christ lapsed, and with it the hierarchical succession.

papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13curae.htm

 

[Jon_S_1]

Technically pianistclare is correct, since all priests - married Eastern, married Western, Orthodox, or Assyrian - are first ordained deacons.

Excellent point!

 

[Antegin]

The Thomas Orthodox Church in southern India claims apostolic succession. The story goes that the apostle Thomas evangelize the region, converting confirming ordaining, before he was martyred with a spear. Hundreds of years later, the Thomas rite Church was found by explorers and reunited with Rome.

 

[Usige]

Baptism, Confirmation (Chrismation), Holy Orders, Anoint of the sick all use sacred oil.

Well, kinda. Deacons (at least in the Latin Church) receive Holy Orders but are not anointed. Only priest and bishops are anointed with chrism, though all three ranks include the laying on of hands.