J
JSmitty2005
Guest
It’s sad isn’t it? Where has our Catholic identity gone?
- Status
D
DaMaMaXiMuS
Guest
Not to sound selfish, but does anyone have some (name removed by moderator)ut on the questions I asked in my previous post. I’m not looking to debate, just want to see what are some of the views held and how they sound to me.
Thanks,
Nelson
Thanks,
Nelson
T
Traditional_Ang
Guest
Reformed Rob:
The Church offered Mass facing East with the people for some 1900 years, most of that time drawing a screen or whispering the Canon of the Mass in order to emphasize the Holy Mysteries.
A friend of the Pope’s has stated how that would be continued if the RUBRICS of the *Novus Ordo * were properly followed:
The Mass of Vatican II
By Fr. Joseph Fessio, S.J.
ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/fessio_massv2_1_jan05.asp
Fr. Fessio contends that, if the RUBRICS of the *Novus Ordo * were properly followed, the Priest would the lead the people in the Eucharistic Sacrifice with his back to the people as they all faced East.
That tradition comes from the fact that we are told that the Son of Man will return from the East to the West. In fact, it until the middle of the 20th Century, when people were told “Let us Face the Lord” at St. Peter’s in Rome, they would all kneel with their backs to the Pope (or whoever was saying mass) so they all faced East as he said the Canon of the Mass.
So, “Every time we Eat this bread and Drink cup,” we not only, “Proclaim your death Lord Jesus, until you come in glory,” but we also await that coming together!
The Priest is standing in the feet of Christ offering the sacrifice of Christ to the Father who is waiting on the other side of the alter to receive the Sacrifice.
Christ was on the same side of the table when He instituted the Eucharist. He didn’t go around to the other side of the table to seperate Himself from His Apostles… He was leading them in prayer from the same side of the table.
And that last one, The Priest is LEADING US In Prayers to the Father, and is acting as Christ at the last supper as he does so.
Most of the above points are in Fr. Fessio’s article.
I hope this provides a background and basis to see how the practice is part of and consistent with the Tradition of the Church.
In Christ, Michael
Rob and Smitty:
The Church offered Mass facing East with the people for some 1900 years, most of that time drawing a screen or whispering the Canon of the Mass in order to emphasize the Holy Mysteries.
A friend of the Pope’s has stated how that would be continued if the RUBRICS of the *Novus Ordo * were properly followed:
The Mass of Vatican II
By Fr. Joseph Fessio, S.J.
ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/fessio_massv2_1_jan05.asp
Fr. Fessio contends that, if the RUBRICS of the *Novus Ordo * were properly followed, the Priest would the lead the people in the Eucharistic Sacrifice with his back to the people as they all faced East.
That tradition comes from the fact that we are told that the Son of Man will return from the East to the West. In fact, it until the middle of the 20th Century, when people were told “Let us Face the Lord” at St. Peter’s in Rome, they would all kneel with their backs to the Pope (or whoever was saying mass) so they all faced East as he said the Canon of the Mass.
So, “Every time we Eat this bread and Drink cup,” we not only, “Proclaim your death Lord Jesus, until you come in glory,” but we also await that coming together!
The Priest is standing in the feet of Christ offering the sacrifice of Christ to the Father who is waiting on the other side of the alter to receive the Sacrifice.
Christ was on the same side of the table when He instituted the Eucharist. He didn’t go around to the other side of the table to seperate Himself from His Apostles… He was leading them in prayer from the same side of the table.
And that last one, The Priest is LEADING US In Prayers to the Father, and is acting as Christ at the last supper as he does so.
Most of the above points are in Fr. Fessio’s article.
I hope this provides a background and basis to see how the practice is part of and consistent with the Tradition of the Church.
In Christ, Michael
T
Traditional_Ang
Guest
Smitty and Axion:It’s sad isn’t it? Where has our Catholic identity gone?
And NONE of those changes was called for in any of the Canons of the Council of Vatican II! All of the changes you listed come from something called, “The Spirit of Vatican II”, which has functioned like the “Living Document Theory” has in Supreme Court jurisprudence for the last 50 years!
In 1960, Mass attendence among Catholics in America was over 70% and in Europe was over 50%. It’s now down to 30% in America and under 20% in Europe (most Europeans are no longer identifying themselves as Catholics or the figure would be under 10% in some countries).
The Church may have gotten dry in the 1940’s and 50’s such that most Catholics didn’t understand the reson why they did what they did, but the state of affairs now could hardly be said to be favorable.
Let us pray for Pope Benedict XVI as he and those who agree with him try to bring the Church back to its roots and to the eternal truths of the Church. Let us also pray that those in authority learn what it means to act as shepherds and begin to act as shepherds of the flocks entrusted to their charge.
And let us remember that Jesus promised the Church that, “The gates of hell would not triumph against it,” but that that doesn’t mean they won’t open up and yawn from time to time.
In Christ, Michael
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
I have a priest friend that I’ll ask because I’m not really sure.
T
Traditional_Ang
Guest
MariaG:
You’re correct that The Apostle St. Paul wanted women to differentiate themselves from the pegans and the polytheism and other abominations of that society. He also wanted the Church to be transformed by the Holy Spirit and not to be conformed to the world and its customs. You’re also overlooking that he also wanted a similar sign (no head covering) from men.
Wouldn’t you agree that we should be striving for the same transformation and nonconformity today? Wouldn’t you agree that it’s just as necessary for the Church to differentiate itself from a world that revels in sexual immorality and excess, that uses abortion to get rid of inconvenient babies, that warehouses the elderly in “convalescent hospitals” (so their children never have to see them), that locks and hides criminals in dungeons for the same reason and that celebrates the conspicuous consumption that has led to WW IV?
The verse meant exactly what it said - That’s the way Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants all the way down to our parents took it to mean when they went to Mass in the centuries before the 1960’s. And, that’s the way most Orthodox still understand it.
I can’t do anything about the fashion of the day which prescribed a hat and goves when there was no reason for them except for showing off one’s ability to buy the most expensive set available. And the Apostle St. Paul would probably have been horrified at the use of such fashion a statement to show off one’s wealth.
And, this verse also has nothing to do with Women’s Suffrage. It simply states that we as Christians need to demonstatrate submission to the authority of Jesus and of His Church.
The Scripture isn’t talking about modest dress - It’s talking about demonstrating submission to our Lord and His Church and differientiating ourselves from the society we live in but are not of.
There are plenty of other reasons to dress modestly and to “Wear you Sunday best”, but that verse isn’t one of them.
I’m sorry that you were never properly taught that.
In Christ, Michael
T
Traditional_Ang
Guest
Nelson:
Here is I Cor 11:4-16 NAB from the Vatican Website:
*Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head. But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved.
For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil. A man, on the other hand, should not cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.
For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; nor was man created for woman, but woman for man; for this reason a woman should have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels. Woman is not independent of man or man of woman in the Lord. For just as woman came from man, so man is born of woman; but all things are from God.
Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head unveiled?
Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears his hair long it is a disgrace to him, whereas if a woman has long hair it is her glory, because long hair has been given (her) for a covering?
But if anyone is inclined to be argumentative, we do not have such a custom, nor do the churches of God.*
vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PZG.HTM
*"but if a woman has long hair, it is her pride? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
If any one is disposed to be contentious, we recognize no other practice, nor do the churches of God." I Cor 11:15-16 RSV *
hti.umich.edu/cgi/r/rsv/rsv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5261174
I can deal with the second one - “But if anyone is inclined to be argumentative, we do not have such a custom, nor do the churches of God.”
There was a period of time in the early Church’s liturgy that was given over to Prophesy, Words of Wisdom, Healings (often the Sacrament of Unction was done here). Some people had begun to argue with the people giveing these various utterances and even with the Priest or the Bishop during the Eucharist or afterwards during the Agape. this was having a very bad effect on Community Unity.
The Apostle St. Paul was merely saying the wrong Prophecies, Words of Wisdom, etc would be discern not argued out, and that diecsernment was different from loud protestation and arguments. The instruction in The Didache was to inform the people that they were disrupting the meeting and then to show them to the door if they persisted.
earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html
The first - “…whereas if a woman has long hair it is her glory, because long hair has been given (her) for a covering?” - seems to be something talking about the glory of woman and covering it up in order to show submission to her husband and to the Church.
There may be a realization that beautiful women, modestly dressed or not, could be a distraction for men. That’s why women and men were historically seperated, and why they’re still seperated in some Orthodox bodies today, as well as in Orthodox Judaism.
In which case. St. Paul is also trying to deal with a practical reality.
I hope this helps. I prefer the RSV-CV (That Fr. Fessio again)_ but It’s harder to find online, while the NAB is right there on the Vatican Website.
Just so you know, the NAB and the RSV are both Direct Equivalence (Word for Word) translations. The RSV-CE was the version read at Mass during the period between the end of Vatican II and the publication of the New American Bible by the Confraternity on Christian Doctrine.
In Christ, Michael
M
MariaG
Guest
Why the change? Because up to around 50 -60 years ago, it was no longer improper or immodest for a woman to leave the house with her head uncovered.
It is not inconceivable that the change has come about due to the change in what is considered “modest” dress.
As for men and hats, it is still considered impolite for men to wear hats indoors in more formal settings.
The change with modesty and women and hats came before the 60 and 70’s. It may just be that the church took 20 - 30 years to reflect this “custom”.
But as I said, I do not know, but at this point, I read both Akin and Sungenis. I don’t know for sure who is correct. But since I am more familiar with Akin, I tend to think he is correct.
Are the United States Churches really in such bad shape that this was and is never confronted by the leadership in the entire US? Do only women in the US not wear headcoverings? Or do other countries forgo it as well ?
Maria
D
DaMaMaXiMuS
Guest
Tradtional Ang,
Thanks for replying.
Let me pose my question in another way. Just so I can be 100% clear.
When Paul says, “if any man be contentious/argumentative, we have no such customs nor do the churches of God”. What is the, “we have no such customs” referring to?
Is it men having long hair?
is it women not wearing a veil with praying or prophesying?
or is it being “contentious/arguementative” that is the custom being spoken of? Meaning, to put it another way, Paul was saying our custom is not be contentious/arguementative.
Thanks again.
Nelson
Thanks for replying.
Let me pose my question in another way. Just so I can be 100% clear.
When Paul says, “if any man be contentious/argumentative, we have no such customs nor do the churches of God”. What is the, “we have no such customs” referring to?
Is it men having long hair?
is it women not wearing a veil with praying or prophesying?
or is it being “contentious/arguementative” that is the custom being spoken of? Meaning, to put it another way, Paul was saying our custom is not be contentious/arguementative.
Thanks again.
Nelson
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
It couldn’t be that because Paul was a Nazirite and therefore couldn’t cut his hair so it was probably very long. Similary, Christ is always pictured with long hair and on the Shroud of Turin his hair appears very long as well. It even seems as though his hair was braided down the middle and that the braid was longer than the rest of his hair. I’ve heard that this was something that rabbis did during this time period. Pretty interesting, eh?
S
stanley123
Guest
Isn’t it true that the Mother of God is always pictured with her head covered. Also, according to what I read, in Russia women still cover their heads in the Orthodox Churches. And I notice that Muslim women here in the USA cover their heads when in public.
M
MariaG
Guest
Just the Russian women in the Orthodox? Is it just in Church or all the time? Formal occassions? Under what circumstance do women in Russia still cover their heads?
And what about Catholic Churches in Europe? Do they still wear head coverings? Is it just the US that no longer does it or is it more worldwide?
Muslim women do. But you aren’t saying that it is immodest for a women to walk around in everyday life with their head uncovered are you?
As for how the Blessed Mother is always depicted, Jesus is always depicted with long hair. Does that mean all men should have long hair?
Maria
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
Until I can get a hold of that priest, I’d suggest looking up some Orthodox sites as far as long hair for men goes since all their priests do not cut their hair.
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
The Orthodox Churches often accuse the Catholic Church of abandoning apostolic traditions like these and I tend to agree with them. As far as who still continues this practice, I believe all the Orthodox do as well as the traditionalist Catholic schismatics like the SSPX. The majority of Vietnamese and Chinese (basically all the oriental) Catholic women continue this. Some Protestants do, especially the Anabaptists (Amish & Mennonites). Their men also allow their hair to grow, specifically their beards. As to when women’s heads should be covered, I believe that women are only supposed to do it whenever they are praying or prophesying which is normally in church, but my grandmother seems to cover her head everywhere. As for guys with long hair, I suppose the argument could be made that if we are to imitate Christ completely, then we should let our hair grow long like his. Shaving is one of the very few pagan traditions that made its way into the Church when Christianity became the religion of the Roman Empire. A priest once told me that one time in the early church, a clean-shaven altar boy presented himself at Mass and the presiding Bishop rejected him simply because he shaved. Just look at all the paintings of popes for the first several hundred years of Christendom. They all had beards. This is actually one of the first issues that split Eastern and Western Christianity. Sadly, we were the ones to go astray. Recently, however, many Catholics are recovering this tradition (ie - the Franciscans).
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
For more information on headcoverings, check out this article I found:
Should women cover their heads in Church?
Should women cover their heads in Church?
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
Pope Paul VI, 1969 (4 years after the council)
From an article from The Atlanta Journal (June 21, 1969) entitled, “Women Required to Cover Head, Vatican Insists”, it appears that Pope Paul VI instructed one of his officials to clarify the Church’s unchanged discipline regarding head coverings for women: “A Vatican official says there has been no change, as reported, in the Roman Catholic rule that women cover their head in church. The Rev. Annibale Bugnini, secretary of the New Congregation for Divine Worship, said the reports stemmed from a misunderstanding of a statement he made at a news conference in May. ‘The rule has not been changed,’ he said. ‘It is a matter of general discipline.’”
From an article from The Atlanta Journal (June 21, 1969) entitled, “Women Required to Cover Head, Vatican Insists”, it appears that Pope Paul VI instructed one of his officials to clarify the Church’s unchanged discipline regarding head coverings for women: “A Vatican official says there has been no change, as reported, in the Roman Catholic rule that women cover their head in church. The Rev. Annibale Bugnini, secretary of the New Congregation for Divine Worship, said the reports stemmed from a misunderstanding of a statement he made at a news conference in May. ‘The rule has not been changed,’ he said. ‘It is a matter of general discipline.’”
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
Here, I’ll actually post the article:
Should women cover their heads in Church?
"My children, you must join your hands in reverence at the Sacrifice of My Son. It is an expression of love, gratitude, and respect. Reverence and respect and holiness must be returned to My Son’s houses, churches throughout the world-reverence, holiness, and respect from the beginning to the end of the Sacred Service.
“Women must keep their heads covered, My child. It is not because of fashion or modes; it is because the Eternal Father and the angels demand proper deportment during the Holy Sacrifice. It offends the heart of My Son much to see that satan has taken away so much piety and holiness in His churches throughout the world.” - Our Lady of the Roses, September 6, 1975
Code:
During the Second Vatican Council, a mob of reporters waited for news after a council meeting. One of them asked Msgr. Annibale Bugnini, then secretary of the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship, if women still had to wear a headcovering in church. He responded that the bishops were considering other issues, and women's veils were not on the agenda.
The next day, the international press announced throughout the world that women did not have to keep their heads covered in church anymore. A few days later, Msgr. Bugnini told the press he was misquoted and women must still wear the veil. But the press did not retract the error, and many women stopped wearing the veil as out of confusion and because of pressure from feminist groups.
Code:
Before the revision in 1983, Canon Law had stated that women must cover their heads. "... especially when they approach the holy table" (can. 1262.2). But in order to reduce such a growing collection of books, the new version of Canon Law was subjected to concise changes. In the process, mention of head coverings was omitted.
In 1970, Pope Paul VI promulgated the new Roman Missal, ignoring mention of women's veils. But at the time the missal was published, it didn't seem necessary to keep mandatory such an obvious and universal practice.
And mention in Canon Law or the Roman Missal is not necessary to the continuation of the tradition, for it is rooted in Scripture and has been practiced ever since the early Church. Indeed, Pope John Paul II affirmed that the real sources of canon law are the Sacred Tradition, especially as reflected in the ecumenical councils, and Sacred Scripture (O.S.V. Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 169).Sacred Scripture presents several reasons for wearing the veil. St. Paul tells us in his first letter to the Corinthians (11:1-16) that women must cover their heads because it is a Sacred Tradition commanded by Our Lord Himself and entrusted to Paul: “The things I am writing to you are the Lord’s commandments” (1 Cor. 14:37).
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
Article continued:
DIVINE HIERARCHY
God has established a hierarchy, in both the natural and the religious spheres, in which the female is subject to the male. St. Paul writes in 1st Corinthians: “But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God.” (1 Cor. 11:3)
And, in the institution of marriage, God gave the husband authority over the wife, but responsibility to her as well. Not only is he the family’s decision maker, but he is also responsible for the material and the spiritual welfare of his wife and children. Man is not in this position to enslave or belittle the wife.
As the Bride (the Church) is subject to Jesus, women must wear the veil as a sign that they are subjected to men. “Let wives be subject to their husbands as to the Lord; because a husband is head of the wife, just as Christ is head of the Church” (Eph. 5:22-23). The man represents Jesus. Therefore he should not cover his head.
However, this subjection is not derogatory to women, because in God’s kingdom everyone is subjected to a higher authority: “For as the woman is from the man, so also is the man through the woman, but all things are from God.” (1 Cor. 11:12). Furthermore, the symbolism of the veil takes that which is invisible, the order established by God, and makes it visible. In the history of the Church, priestly vestments have played a similar symbolic role.
WOMEN’S HONOR
It is an honor to wear the veil. But by publicly repudiating it, a woman dishonors her feminine dignity, her sign of female subjection, just as the military officer is dishonored when he is stripped of his decorations.
The Roman Pontifical contains the imposing ceremonial of the consecration of the veils:
“Receive the sacred veil, that thou mayst be known to have despised the world, and to be truly, humbly, and with all thy heart subject to Christ as His bride; and may he defend thee from all evil, and bring thee to life eternal” (Pontificale Romanum, de benedictione).
"BECAUSE OF THE ANGELS"
“That is why women ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels,” wrote St. Paul (1 Cor. 11:10). The invisible hierarchy should be respected because the angels are present at Christian liturgical assemblies, offering with us the Holy Sacrifice with the honor due to Almighty God.
St. John the Apostle wrote:
“And another angel came and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense that he might offer it with the prayers of all before the throne.” (Rev. 8:3, see also Matt. 18:10).
“But immediately an angel of the Lord struck [Herod] down, because he had not given honor to God, and he was eaten by worms, and died.” (Acts 12:23).
ANCIENT TRADITION
The custom of wearing the veil was maintained in the primitive churches of God (1 Cor. 11:16). We see this in the First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians.
The women of Corinth, beset by modern sensibilities, started coming to church without their heads covered. When St. Paul heard of their neglect, he wrote and urged them to keep the veil. According to St. Jerome’s commentary Bible, he finally settled the matter by saying head covering was a custom of the primitive communities of Judea, “the churches of God” (1 Thess. 2:15, 3:6).
**GOD’S COMMAND **
Even today, some people erroneously believe that St. Paul based the tradition on his personal opinion. They think he did not intend it to be continued in the Universal Church, but only as a local custom. This argument, however, does not conform to the Pauline spirit. After all, it was Paul who stood before Peter to change Jewish traditions in Christian churches (Gal. 2:11-21).
St. Paul reminds them, “for I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it; but I received it by revelation of Jesus Christ” (Gal. 1:12), referring to the authority of his ministry, and veracity of his words. Our Lord warns us to obey His commandments:
“He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 5:19).
DIVINE HIERARCHY
God has established a hierarchy, in both the natural and the religious spheres, in which the female is subject to the male. St. Paul writes in 1st Corinthians: “But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God.” (1 Cor. 11:3)
And, in the institution of marriage, God gave the husband authority over the wife, but responsibility to her as well. Not only is he the family’s decision maker, but he is also responsible for the material and the spiritual welfare of his wife and children. Man is not in this position to enslave or belittle the wife.
As the Bride (the Church) is subject to Jesus, women must wear the veil as a sign that they are subjected to men. “Let wives be subject to their husbands as to the Lord; because a husband is head of the wife, just as Christ is head of the Church” (Eph. 5:22-23). The man represents Jesus. Therefore he should not cover his head.
However, this subjection is not derogatory to women, because in God’s kingdom everyone is subjected to a higher authority: “For as the woman is from the man, so also is the man through the woman, but all things are from God.” (1 Cor. 11:12). Furthermore, the symbolism of the veil takes that which is invisible, the order established by God, and makes it visible. In the history of the Church, priestly vestments have played a similar symbolic role.
WOMEN’S HONOR
It is an honor to wear the veil. But by publicly repudiating it, a woman dishonors her feminine dignity, her sign of female subjection, just as the military officer is dishonored when he is stripped of his decorations.
The Roman Pontifical contains the imposing ceremonial of the consecration of the veils:
“Receive the sacred veil, that thou mayst be known to have despised the world, and to be truly, humbly, and with all thy heart subject to Christ as His bride; and may he defend thee from all evil, and bring thee to life eternal” (Pontificale Romanum, de benedictione).
Code:
St. Paul says an unveiled woman is a dishonor: "But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces here head, for it is the same as if she were shaven." (1 Cor. 11:5)“That is why women ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels,” wrote St. Paul (1 Cor. 11:10). The invisible hierarchy should be respected because the angels are present at Christian liturgical assemblies, offering with us the Holy Sacrifice with the honor due to Almighty God.
St. John the Apostle wrote:
“And another angel came and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense that he might offer it with the prayers of all before the throne.” (Rev. 8:3, see also Matt. 18:10).
Code:
They are offended by a lack of reverence at Mass, just as they abhorred King Herod's acceptance of adoration from the people of Jerusalem:ANCIENT TRADITION
The custom of wearing the veil was maintained in the primitive churches of God (1 Cor. 11:16). We see this in the First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians.
The women of Corinth, beset by modern sensibilities, started coming to church without their heads covered. When St. Paul heard of their neglect, he wrote and urged them to keep the veil. According to St. Jerome’s commentary Bible, he finally settled the matter by saying head covering was a custom of the primitive communities of Judea, “the churches of God” (1 Thess. 2:15, 3:6).
**GOD’S COMMAND **
Even today, some people erroneously believe that St. Paul based the tradition on his personal opinion. They think he did not intend it to be continued in the Universal Church, but only as a local custom. This argument, however, does not conform to the Pauline spirit. After all, it was Paul who stood before Peter to change Jewish traditions in Christian churches (Gal. 2:11-21).
St. Paul reminds them, “for I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it; but I received it by revelation of Jesus Christ” (Gal. 1:12), referring to the authority of his ministry, and veracity of his words. Our Lord warns us to obey His commandments:
“He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 5:19).
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
Article continued again:
CONCLUSION
**“Woman must cover her head. It is a mark of respect required in the House of God. This, the angels demand.” ** - Our Lady, March 18, 1975
The amazing Bayside Prophecies…
These prophecies came from Jesus, Mary, and the saints to Veronica Lueken at Bayside, NY, from 1968 to 1995.
WOMEN MUST WEAR
“My child, tell all to act as good example in My Son’s House. Women must wear a head covering in the holy places and in prayer. It is not because of custom; it is because the angels demand proper deportment during the Holy Sacrifice.” - Our Lady, May 29, 1976
SIGN OF REVERENCE
"Observe: Women shall be meek in the presence of their husbands. We hear the call of ‘liberation’! Whom shall woman be liberated to but satan!
"A man, as a figure of the Christ, my child, shall be the head of his household. So it is from the Lord.
"A woman shall adorn herself not in pearls and braided hair, but in goodness and piety and good example to her children. A woman will not expose her body as a pagan. What manner of example has she given to her children? Woe to the parent who brings scandal to her children!
“Woman, remove your arrogance! You are searching in darkness. As a sign of reverence, you will cover your head. It is not that I call it custom, my children; it is that the angels demand this in the presence of the Sacrifice, Mass!” - St. Paul, March 22, 1975
ST. THERESA
Veronica - St. Theresa is pointing to some who are approaching the altar railing, and she is pointing to their hair. There are five girls. They look like they haven’t anything on their heads… - Veronica, February 1, 1972
1 CORINTHIANS 11
Veronica - Now also in relation to a woman’s head being covered during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and proper deportment within the portals of Holy Church where Jesus is residing. Now I am sure that our liberationists would not go along with us in this respect. However, this would actually signify that much of the liberation movement is being directed by satan, and not by God. Now the headdress for women–this is Saint Paul to the Corinthians, Chapter 11:
Now I praise you, brethren, because in all things you are mindful of me and hold fast my precepts as I gave them to you. But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraces his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is the same as if she were shaven. A man indeed ought not to cover his head because he is the image and glory of God. But woman is the glory of man. For man is not from woman, but woman from man. (Made from man by God.) For man was not created for woman, but woman for man. This is why the woman ought to have a sign of authority over her head, because of the angels.
CONCLUSION
Code:
In summary, the reasons St. Paul advises women to cover their heads in church are:- Our Lord commanded it;
- it is a visible sign of an invisible order established by God;
- The angels at Mass are offended if women don’t use it;
- it is a ceremonial vestment;
- it is our heritage.
Christian women around the world have other reasons to wear a hat, mantilla, rebozo, gele, scarf, shawl, or veil. Some wear it out of respect to God; others, to obey the Pope’s request, or continue family traditions. But the most important reason of all is because Our Lord said: “If you love me keep my commandments.” (John 14:15).
We should always be ready with our bridal veils, waiting for him and the promised wedding (Apoc. 22:17), following the example of our Blessed Mother Mary, who never appeared before the eyes of men but properly veiled.
To those who still think that the veil is an obsolete custom, remember that: “Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday and today, yes, and forever.” (Heb. 13:8).
**“Woman must cover her head. It is a mark of respect required in the House of God. This, the angels demand.” ** - Our Lady, March 18, 1975
The amazing Bayside Prophecies…
These prophecies came from Jesus, Mary, and the saints to Veronica Lueken at Bayside, NY, from 1968 to 1995.
WOMEN MUST WEAR
“My child, tell all to act as good example in My Son’s House. Women must wear a head covering in the holy places and in prayer. It is not because of custom; it is because the angels demand proper deportment during the Holy Sacrifice.” - Our Lady, May 29, 1976
SIGN OF REVERENCE
"Observe: Women shall be meek in the presence of their husbands. We hear the call of ‘liberation’! Whom shall woman be liberated to but satan!
"A man, as a figure of the Christ, my child, shall be the head of his household. So it is from the Lord.
"A woman shall adorn herself not in pearls and braided hair, but in goodness and piety and good example to her children. A woman will not expose her body as a pagan. What manner of example has she given to her children? Woe to the parent who brings scandal to her children!
“Woman, remove your arrogance! You are searching in darkness. As a sign of reverence, you will cover your head. It is not that I call it custom, my children; it is that the angels demand this in the presence of the Sacrifice, Mass!” - St. Paul, March 22, 1975
ST. THERESA
Veronica - St. Theresa is pointing to some who are approaching the altar railing, and she is pointing to their hair. There are five girls. They look like they haven’t anything on their heads… - Veronica, February 1, 1972
1 CORINTHIANS 11
Veronica - Now also in relation to a woman’s head being covered during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and proper deportment within the portals of Holy Church where Jesus is residing. Now I am sure that our liberationists would not go along with us in this respect. However, this would actually signify that much of the liberation movement is being directed by satan, and not by God. Now the headdress for women–this is Saint Paul to the Corinthians, Chapter 11:
Now I praise you, brethren, because in all things you are mindful of me and hold fast my precepts as I gave them to you. But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraces his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is the same as if she were shaven. A man indeed ought not to cover his head because he is the image and glory of God. But woman is the glory of man. For man is not from woman, but woman from man. (Made from man by God.) For man was not created for woman, but woman for man. This is why the woman ought to have a sign of authority over her head, because of the angels.
In other words, Saint Paul is saying that it's not just custom. This is the excuse given by the liberation movement to stop the head covering of women in the Church. Well, they say that it is custom only in Saint Paul's time. But that is not true because Saint Paul explains, and these are the words direct from God through Saint Paul, that you must have your head covered. It is proper deportment in the eyes of the angels. - Veronica, April 1, 1978
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Article continued again again 
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ST. PAUL: YOU DERIDE HIM
“You must read the Bible and act upon it. Cast not aside the teachings of the founders of My Son’s Church. Saint Paul, you revile and deride him. You cast him aside, and why? So that you can write and rewrite the words of your God to suit your own basic carnal human nature.” - Our Lady, July 25, 1977
RESPECT
"You will make it known to the world, My child, that the Father is much distressed by the manner in which His Son, My Son, comes to you in the Eucharist. Many are bringing Him with disrespect.
“Do not discount in your daily lives the little things, My children, for they add up and make a multitude of offenses to the Father. The angels command respect to My Son. You will cover your heads when you pray.” - Our Lady, November 23, 1974
**NOT BECAUSE OF FASHION **
"My children, you must join your hands in reverence at the Sacrifice of My Son. It is an expression of love, gratitude, and respect. Reverence and respect and holiness must be returned to My Son’s houses, churches throughout the world-reverence, holiness, and respect from the beginning to the end of the Sacred Service.
“Women must keep their heads covered, My child. It is not because of fashion or modes; it is because the Eternal Father and the angels demand proper deportment during the Holy Sacrifice. It offends the heart of My Son much to see that satan has taken away so much piety and holiness in His churches throughout the world.” - Our Lady, September 6, 1975
MARK OF RESPECT
"Women must adorn themselves in modesty. Pagan practices of diabolical music is not condoned by the Eternal Father, nor shall We condone dancing and all manner of worldly entrance within the holy houses of God.
“Woman must cover her head. It is a mark of respect required in the House of God. This, the angels demand.” - Our Lady, March 18, 1975
**IRREVERENCE **
"The irreverence given to My Son in His houses upon earth cry out to Heaven for vengeance! Women, you will not disport yourself in nakedness in My Son’s House! You will cover your heads–not because you come in vanity, thinking that your hair is a beauty, or the crowning glory of your being! Look to your soul to be your crowning glory. Your hair will be covered with the worms just as your body will enter into the dust. Better that you spend your time shining your soul than glorifying your body.
"Cover your body before My Son! Do not defame and disgust Him by your presence and your acceptance of His divinity! Why, you are naked like pagans! Cover your heads! You do not follow the modernism and modes of an evil generation. No! The angels demand that all respect be given to the divinity of the Son of God in the houses throughout the world.
“Do not discount in your daily lives the little things, My children, for they add up and make a multitude of offenses to the Father. The angels command respect to My Son. You will cover your heads when you pray.” - Our Lady, August 14, 1974
NOT A MERE CUSTOM
“My children, My Son, His heart is pierced by the manner in which many come to His House with disrespect, apathy, and using His House as a meeting place for all manner of abominations. In due respect on this night of the feast of the high angels in the eternal Kingdom, they demand–and Michael commands–that women must cover their heads during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It is not through custom that this is asked of you. Do not be deluded by satan, My children. Women must cover their heads in respect for the Sacrifice of My Son, in respect for all laws of your God and not of man; for man now, My children, is setting up his own laws, his own rules, and man shall destroy himself in this manner.” - Our Lady, September 28, 1976
COMMAND OF THE ANGELS
“My heart is torn, My children, at the manner in which you do honor to My Son in His House! The angels demand proper deportment during the Holy Sacrifice of My Son. A woman must have her head covered. It is the command of the angels who are present at the Holy Sacrifice. All flesh and nakedness shall burn with the Ball of Redemption. Cover your bodies! They are temples of the Holy Ghost!” - Our Lady, November 19, 1977
Also, see this site:
tldm.org/directives/d178.htm
:ST. PAUL: YOU DERIDE HIM
“You must read the Bible and act upon it. Cast not aside the teachings of the founders of My Son’s Church. Saint Paul, you revile and deride him. You cast him aside, and why? So that you can write and rewrite the words of your God to suit your own basic carnal human nature.” - Our Lady, July 25, 1977
RESPECT
"You will make it known to the world, My child, that the Father is much distressed by the manner in which His Son, My Son, comes to you in the Eucharist. Many are bringing Him with disrespect.
“Do not discount in your daily lives the little things, My children, for they add up and make a multitude of offenses to the Father. The angels command respect to My Son. You will cover your heads when you pray.” - Our Lady, November 23, 1974
**NOT BECAUSE OF FASHION **
"My children, you must join your hands in reverence at the Sacrifice of My Son. It is an expression of love, gratitude, and respect. Reverence and respect and holiness must be returned to My Son’s houses, churches throughout the world-reverence, holiness, and respect from the beginning to the end of the Sacred Service.
“Women must keep their heads covered, My child. It is not because of fashion or modes; it is because the Eternal Father and the angels demand proper deportment during the Holy Sacrifice. It offends the heart of My Son much to see that satan has taken away so much piety and holiness in His churches throughout the world.” - Our Lady, September 6, 1975
MARK OF RESPECT
"Women must adorn themselves in modesty. Pagan practices of diabolical music is not condoned by the Eternal Father, nor shall We condone dancing and all manner of worldly entrance within the holy houses of God.
“Woman must cover her head. It is a mark of respect required in the House of God. This, the angels demand.” - Our Lady, March 18, 1975
**IRREVERENCE **
"The irreverence given to My Son in His houses upon earth cry out to Heaven for vengeance! Women, you will not disport yourself in nakedness in My Son’s House! You will cover your heads–not because you come in vanity, thinking that your hair is a beauty, or the crowning glory of your being! Look to your soul to be your crowning glory. Your hair will be covered with the worms just as your body will enter into the dust. Better that you spend your time shining your soul than glorifying your body.
"Cover your body before My Son! Do not defame and disgust Him by your presence and your acceptance of His divinity! Why, you are naked like pagans! Cover your heads! You do not follow the modernism and modes of an evil generation. No! The angels demand that all respect be given to the divinity of the Son of God in the houses throughout the world.
“Do not discount in your daily lives the little things, My children, for they add up and make a multitude of offenses to the Father. The angels command respect to My Son. You will cover your heads when you pray.” - Our Lady, August 14, 1974
NOT A MERE CUSTOM
“My children, My Son, His heart is pierced by the manner in which many come to His House with disrespect, apathy, and using His House as a meeting place for all manner of abominations. In due respect on this night of the feast of the high angels in the eternal Kingdom, they demand–and Michael commands–that women must cover their heads during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It is not through custom that this is asked of you. Do not be deluded by satan, My children. Women must cover their heads in respect for the Sacrifice of My Son, in respect for all laws of your God and not of man; for man now, My children, is setting up his own laws, his own rules, and man shall destroy himself in this manner.” - Our Lady, September 28, 1976
COMMAND OF THE ANGELS
“My heart is torn, My children, at the manner in which you do honor to My Son in His House! The angels demand proper deportment during the Holy Sacrifice of My Son. A woman must have her head covered. It is the command of the angels who are present at the Holy Sacrifice. All flesh and nakedness shall burn with the Ball of Redemption. Cover your bodies! They are temples of the Holy Ghost!” - Our Lady, November 19, 1977
Also, see this site:
tldm.org/directives/d178.htm
- Status