Please help Australian Catholics

[josh987654321]

Honestly though, we are failing the flock (even as part of the flock) in more than one way.

Speak for yourself.

We are still reeling from the Royal Commission, we have a former Archbishop in front of the courts, and many are bewildered.

Yes, we are being attacked on many fronts, now is not the time to capitulate. Like Gandalf in Lord of the Rings “The enemy is on your doorstep, as steward you are charged with the defense of this city, where are Gondor’s armies?”

Blaming people who want to marry their partner, or Safe Schools, is the easy way out.

It is about holding true, and I certainly refuse to be blackmailed and somehow held accountable and punnished over a crime myself and the Church has always condemned and I have never been a part of nor defended or aided in any way.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

Love the LOTR movies, especially the very brilliant, and the great Ian McKellen as Gandalf, who just happens to be a great voice for the LGBT movement.

I also really liked the LOTR movies, especially the writer himself who was a faithful Roman Catholic who would be horrified at the capitulation of the Church on many fronts today.

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

 

[LittleFlower]

the Church has always condemned

It has not always condemned it. It took an active role in hiding it in many fronts.

I have never been a part of nor defended or aided in any way.

Good on you.

But you do realised that many Australians know someone who has been abused by religious? Or never felt like the Church was compassionate towards them?

We haven’t aided ourselves to be able to defend ourselves against this because we have failed so many. It’s like a kid who destroys his birthday cake but then wants everyone to still eat it. Like no, it went into a mud puddle, I’m not touching it with a ten foot pole. We are the kid. The cake is the church, and no one wants a slice.

We may have had a better chance, if we were compassionate, had better governance and child protection in place beforehand. And now we are coming out of the wood works and saying Safe Schools is bad?

I mean, @josh987654321 , it’s not really helpful is it?

 

[josh987654321]

I mean, @josh987654321 , it’s not really helpful is it?

If you don’t come out and condemn some of the terrible stuff in the deceptive and totally unsafe ‘safe schools’ program, then you are repeating all the same mistakes you claim to be trying to make amends to!

Child Sex abuse and the failings of the Church in history, all came from men and women who did not stand up for the truth of the Church, failing to stand up for the truth of the Church again, does you or the Church no good, you simply repeat the same mistakes.

 

[LittleFlower]

If you don’t come out and condemn some of the terrible stuff in the deceptive and totally unsafe ‘safe schools’ program, then you are repeating all the same mistakes you claim to be trying to make amends to!

The manner in which you go about this is important and we don’t have, in the public’s eye, much ground to stand on. And this matters and should be taken into account in any communique.

 

[josh987654321]

The manner in which you go about this is important

I’m fine if you simply wish to criticize the manner in which one goes about defending the truth, but to advocate a yes vote and even vote yes to same sex marriage… that is NOT defending Christ and the truth of the Church. That is capitulation and betrayal! which will inevitably lead to our persecution.

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world”

 

[josh987654321]

Well said.

No different to the Pharisees of Christ’s time, trying to pretend that their mass murder of the most innocent is some kind of act of ‘love’. How messed up is that.

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

God Bless You

 

[FiveLinden]

Will someone answer my earlier question please? I wanted to know why Australian Catholics do not seek to outlaw other forms of marriage considered invalid by the Church, such as remarriage of divorced people, marriage of a Catholic to an unbaptised person without dispensation, marriage of priests etc? Why are gay marriages any different from any other invalid marriage?

 

[LittleFlower]

Will someone answer my earlier question please? I wanted to know why Australian Catholics do not seek to outlaw other forms of marriage considered invalid by the Church, such as remarriage of divorced people, marriage of a Catholic to an unbaptised person without dispensation, marriage of priests etc? Why are gay marriages any different from any other invalid marriage?

Very good question. Mainly because that ship has already left the port. Secular society is long sold on those issues and used to them, as they are now status quo. Those all would be literally the hill to die on.

 

[FiveLinden]

So you would if you could?

 

[LittleFlower]

So you would if you could?

Personally? That would be the marketing campaign to work on.

 

[josh987654321]

So you would if you could?

St John Ogilvie, pray for us.

John Ogilvie (saint) - Wikipedia

 

[josh987654321]

seek to outlaw other forms of marriage

False dichotomy and a loaded question, same sex marriage does not legalize nor criminalize a homosexual union.

There are also more forms of ‘marriage’ then two people or even people for that matter which certainly puts you into a hypocritical position unless you recognize every kind of view someone at any whim or fancy wishes to call ‘marriage’

 

[josh987654321]

I wanted to know why Australian Catholics do not seek to outlaw other forms of marriage considered invalid by the Church, such as remarriage of divorced people, marriage of a Catholic to an unbaptised person without dispensation, marriage of priests etc?

Clever question, just like the trick questions the Pharisees asked Christ, your very asking it and in such a way tells me where your heart is on the issue. If we say ‘yes’ you will alienate Catholics and Protestants when it comes to this battle, divide and conquer. If we say ‘no’ you will accuse us of double standards.

1. Not even the Protestants all support no fault divorce.
2. We live in a democracy, the question is whether we agree with redefining marriage, the answer is obviously no, any Catholic who says ‘yes’ is a heretic. Appealing to separation of church and state is like saying “Personally I think murder is wrong, but I don’t want to impose my beliefs on others” it’s nonsensical, because they are voting to impose their beliefs on us! All they have done is deceive those who disagree with them to vote in favor for them, which is the height of absurdity.
3. When Divorce was introduced and became widespread, it was damaging, very damaging (hence the martyr’s) and we are supposed to believe there will be no consequences over the next revolution on marriage and the family? the only difference is it will not be Protestants persecuting Catholics, it will be secular society persecuting Christians.

Thank you for reading

 

[FiveLinden]

I’m sorry you think my intention was ‘tricky’. That was not the intention. I do think Catholic thought is stressed to breaking point on this point.

 

[OraLabora]

Alas the same-sex “marriage” (an ontological impossibility) ship has sailed. I fought the fight in Canada, wrote to my member of parliament, the Prime Minister (at the time a Catholic!), etc. but the ship still left its moorings in spite of me more than 10 years ago,.

It’s occurred to me since then, that we are witnessing the decline of an unchurched society, and the governments we get merely reflect that reality. There is absolutely zero chance that the Church can stop things like this in the political arena. Sure Catholics have a duty to speak up for the Truth, but the reality is that what is needed is evangelization. Only when a critical mass of society is made up of believers, and thus represent a constituency that can only be ignored at the peril of an incumbent for office, do we have a chance to stop the slide down the slippery slope.

On CAF we’re preaching to the choir and outside CAF we are preaching into thin air. We need people who will actually listen, and that means attracting more non-believers into our pews. That usually means meeting people where they are and planting the seed of inner conversion. That’s a much harder job than firing off a letter to a politician or voting in a plebiscite.

 

[josh987654321]

It’s occurred to me since then

There is just one fatal flaw in your analysis. And you answered it yourself -

the Prime Minister (at the time a Catholic!)

As you see, we are not under attack from without (not yet anyway) but here in the west we are under attack from within! So here is exactly where we need to be.

Trudeau is supposed to be Catholic, yet he promotes both same sex marriage and abortion.

In Australia both Malcolm Turnbull and Bill Shorten are supposed to be Catholics and yet both support a yes vote to same sex marriage, the Australian Labor party used to be a majority Catholic Party, now it is assuredly anti-Catholic, Daniel Andrews in Victoria, is supposed to be Catholic, he is currently pushing euthanasia along with same sex marriage and abortion.

The Democratic Party in America used to be the majority Catholic Party, now it is assuredly anti-Catholic. Tim Kaine called himself ‘Catholic’ yet was the running mate for Hillary Clinton who calls abortion a ‘human right’ John Podesta is supposed to be Catholic, yet he was caught out on WikiLeaks infiltrating and corrupting the Church, and this very thread is about a Catholic Priest who went on Q&A to promote a yes vote for same sex marriage here in Australia.

We are under attack alright! but it’s not from those outside the Church (not yet anyway, unless we live in the Middle East or Communist nations).

To say we need to go out and evangelize non-believers instead, is like going into battle with an army full of saboteurs.

On CAF we’re preaching to the choir

Are we? I certainly don’t feel like we are. Do you?

God Bless You

Thank you for reading.

 

[brian_custer]

i would abandon ship on same sex marriage

we’ve been defeated (politically) on this issue

i would respectfully request we concentrate on pro-life

 

[josh987654321]

i would abandon ship on same sex marriage

I’m not going anywhere. If this ship goes down, then I go down with it.

we’ve been defeated (politically) on this issue

That’s what they said about Brexit and Trump. This plebiscite in Australia has not even come back yet and already your declaring that we’ve lost? What kind of an army for Christ is this?

Reagan - A Time For Choosing -

i would respectfully request we concentrate on pro-life

Until we hit some rough waters and then abandon ship again?

God Bless

Thank you for reading

 

[SuperLuigi]

I’d get the government out of the marriage business altogether. Governments are in many ways a reflection of culture in democracies and long story short they just can’t handle it.