Please Help-I might become an atheist

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ribozyme said:
Isn’t it possible that most atheists are “simple, humble, and happy?” I bet most atheists DO NOT spend their time on religious forums railing on theists. It seems you met atheists who are quite ostentatious about their atheism. Of course, those atheists are easier to notice so your experience is probably tarnished by observer bias.

I’ve decided that God as described in the Christian Bible doesn’t exist, and I want to help build a new world - a techno-utopia.
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I think that MOST atheists keep pretty quiet about it. I find out about other people’s atheism only after admitting that I’m a close cousin, or, for purposes of this forum, an atheist.

Most Catholics aren’t noisy, ignorant and obnoxious, either, but there are sure a lot of them online, not in this forum, of course…😉
 
J_C said:
Many things are “possible” including the existence of happy atheists who live their lives quietly without having the need to drag others into their happy worlds. I doubt that many true atheists are like this. Lots of people call themselves atheists but are actually just religiously indifferent, and there’s a distinction.

Personal opinion, I think of an atheist about the same as a cultist. Most of them believe they’re onto something major and are on a quest to sell that major idea to as many others as they can. They need company in order to validate their own choices. “build a new world - a techno-utopia” suggests one is on a mission, no?
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To each his own, etc., but I’m a happy atheist-agnostic. I’m not trying to sell anything. Most people are very uncomfortable even thinking about atheism and I don’t want to upset them. Atheism has been around for a long time, so I don’t think that I’m onto anything new. And since we’re in the minority (actually, it’s hard to determine how many atheists there actually are), we don’t need any company.
 
Wow, lots of great stuff on this thread, almost too much to take in and respond to. But I like this one, S_V7 -
I’m quite certain there are true miracles.
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So am I. I am amazed that there are so many people who are quite unmoved by the numerous miracles cited in the OT, NT and recorded in the lives of the saints. It’s as if they figure they really didn’t happen. Let’s simplify things. What if only one miracle really, truly happened? Like, say, Elijah and the prophets of Baal. Or the parting of the Red Sea. That’s enough for me. Wouldn’t want to tempt the Lord my God with a request for a personal miracle after everything He’s shown us so far.

-Tim
 
S_V7 said:
Then there are those early Christian martyrs…Why face a brutel and perhaps merciless torture and death for a fairy tale? Just denounce your God and your free to go, right? Why die when a simple “no I don’t believe” will save your life?

There have been many brave martyrs in all religions for centuries. Just because they died (often horribly) for their beliefs doesn’t make their beliefs correct.

The bravest martyrs in the world today are the suicide martyr-murderers in Iraq and Palestine. Blowing themselves and others up to obey what they believe is the will of Allah and to go straight to heaven. People are lined up to do this, men, women, children.
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they are not the bravest martyrs, in fact they are not martyrs, they are murderers.

Cowards at best. to be persecuted and die peacefully for your faith, that is a different proof in and of itself. To die because you preach something, to die because you won’t denounce something, is that brave? No, that is faith.

To murder people because they do not share your faith is cowardly.
 
  • Again meaningless life unless there is God and an after life where we must give an account for our actions. Why bother doing the “right thing” when doing the opposite is more fun and therefore increases my “happiness”? Who gets to decide what’s right and wrong? Society, culture, us? More poisonous relativism*

    An enlightened atheist-agnostic supports an Epicurean philosophy of the Golden Mean. I do all things which tend to my greater good and comfort. It is important to contribute to society because I live in it. I give to charities so that my world is safer and better. I get along with people so that I have friends and family and can do my job in peace. I don’t kill animals because they are essential to the world’s order and (usually) won’t hurt me. Only someone who is amoral requires a fear of hell to do good. It is in our own self-interest to actively seek and do good consistently.
 
ribozyme said:
I’ve decided that God as described in the Christian Bible doesn’t exist, and I want to help build a new world - a techno-utopia.
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Good luck with that.

BTW, where will this techno-utopia get its values?

Paul
 
S_V7 said:
  1. there is no necessity for the Prime Mover to be supernatural.
  2. Again there is no requirement for a First Cause to be supernatural.
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I’m not a quantum-physicist, so I can’t really help you with the first parts of those questions, however, they are “skeptical” of God because He is not “visible”. I suggest you be equally skeptical of their quarks and whatnot that are not visible.
Now, assuming that the Prime Mover/First Cause is necessary (which I believe it is), it must necessarily be supernatural, since everything natural needs a previous cause or mover.
 
1234 said:
An enlightened atheist-agnostic supports an Epicurean philosophy of the Golden Mean. I do all things which tend to my greater good and comfort. It is important to contribute to society because I live in it. I give to charities so that my world is safer and better. I get along with people so that I have friends and family and can do my job in peace. I don’t kill animals because they are essential to the world’s order and (usually) won’t hurt me. Only someone who is amoral requires a fear of hell to do good. It is in our own self-interest to actively seek and do good consistently.
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(I know I’m about to sound like a whiney child but it seems like the only way to express myself. Please bear with me:o )

Your second and third statements don’t seem to match the reality of society. Crime rates are just:eek: , I mean murders are so common these days you can’t even turn the tv on without hearing about the shooting on so and so street, it’s like “oh yeah murder…hmm…so how about them Yankees?”
Now I don’t know if they are atheists or enlightened atheist (what is that by the way?) or Christian or whatever, but they certainly aren’t acting like Christians (I am in no way saying that atheist are murderous criminals) and they certainly aren’t contributing to society. I’m in no position to claim the following as true, tis but my rambling thoughts: apparently murderers and such aren’t interested in they’re “greater good and comfort”. It seems to me that they want what they want NOW (drugs money, I don’t know) and without regard for an afterlife where they are to be held accountable, which is what I believe would happen in a world without religion and standard morals. (again, not saying atheists are murderers). And who are we to say what someone’s greater good is? What if I believed my “greater good” was my personal happiness found through material posessions? Why shouldn’t I steal, it makes me happy no? It makes me feel comfortable. Who are you to tell me what’s for my own good? Who are you to tell me what’s right and wrong? So and So had a nice car, I liked it, so I killed him and took it, you have a problem with that?..come to think of it, you have a nice car too."🤷 :dts: :doh2: 😦
I give to charities so that my world is safer and better. I get along with people so that I have friends and family and can do my job in peace.
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What do you mean by “better”? What if my view of a good society is not your view? What if I like “the thrill” of a dangerous society? What if I feel that my friends and family are a nusance? Should I just kill them from annoyance? Use them for my benefit? (I love my family by the way:) )

Continued…
hmm I feel like I’m restateing some of my previous post
 
I don’t kill animals because they are essential to the world’s order and (usually) won’t hurt me
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What if I don’t care about the world’s order? I’m only interested in my personal and immediate benifit, after all I’m gonna die and cease to exist right? =(
I know some people who seem to kill animals just for the sake of it =( They say that it “controls the population” but their conversations about it are sometimes rather disturbing.
It is in our own self-interest to actively seek and do good consistently.
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Again, look at the news, today’s society doesn’t seem to abide by this. Look at the world’s idea of “entertainment.” Sex and violence =( . Please tell my that’s not your idea of good.
And as a refugee in high school, I can tell you that your last statement is not true. Cheating on tests, talking back to teachers (a girl in my class is constantly bringing up my teacher’s “pathetic divorce” and he just laughs:ehh: =( , fights, gossip, laziness in school work (that’s a huge problem I think), not to mention the constant dirty jokes and swear words that sometimes make me want to cover my ears and go " lalalalalal". The other day I was taking a test and you could hear apparently a student arguing with a teacher, and the teacher just yelled “Shut up!” -not a rare thing by the way, though not constant-yet =( , sex in school. I hope you don’t see this as “actively seeking and doing good consistently”. I hate to say it, but it just seems like their self interest lays, well…in their self interest -without regards to anyone else:( Not everyone at school does these though, this is just my observation, and I really hope it’s wrong.

Sigh I feel here the need to apologize for my ramblings:o I don’t mean to say that atheists are these horrible evil people, neither am I implying that everyone at my school is a “savage unbeliever”. There are plenty of good people I know who stumble but get back up and try again.
I believe in God, doing so gives me the light to see the world and its events in a sad, yet hopeful way. This gives me more of a reason to do good and learn more about my faith in order to spread that goodness.
Take God away and I see no reason to prevent me from selfishly seeking my own interests or obeying any law. No one to love completely and give an account to. “Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die” 😦
I don’t claim it to be anything. Life is simply what you make it to be.
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Exactly, nothing. What’s the point of striving for a “good life” when it has no true value?
sigh I don’t mean to be so negative but I just can’t see it any other way. Without my Love, I see no point in anything, only empty and fleeting ‘satisfactions’ and pleasures that ultimatley make no true difference to anyone.
This can’t be so.
There has to be a meaning for life (:rolleyes: I just heard myself saying this in my head and it sounded so cheesy but I felt it had to be said)
Again sorry about my gloom and doom pessimism. I don’t mean to throw anyone into an abyss of despair (if I even did). Hope is not lost. And as a Catholic I find it in Jesus.
Okay atheists, please tell me the meaning of life if there is no God or afterlife (Yes,I know, the million dollar question:p )

And I don’t know if you’d all care if I told you, but I’ll pray a rosary for all you atheists and agnostics out there. You’ve probably heard this a million times, but hey, we care about you, no?🙂

thanks for bearing with me. My brain is tired and limited so I probably messed up my scrambled thinking somewhere(s) so please let me know if you’d like me to clarify something. I’ll do what I can. It’s getting late and I must go to bed. You may now chastise my juvenile rant.

oh yeah, b4 I go. Here’s some food for thought. I read this quote somewhere and you might think about it if you want. Atheist’s have probably heard this many times before but o well, million and one. I believe it’s from Pascal’s Wager (and yes I’m aware that it has flaws, but I still like the quote)
Here’s my paraphrase from memory:
“There are two kinds of people in this world. Those afraid to lose God, and those afraid of finding Him.”

:yawn: off to bed now.
G’night!
 
Men are no better or worse today than they ever have been. If it seems like crime is worse, or people are meaner, it is mainly because you see the live action cam bringing all the grisly details right into your living room, something that wasn’t true even 100 years ago.
 
Don’t know what others have been saying, but I got through one of the first ‘refutes to Aquinas’ first proof.’
God means it cannot be proved.
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The arguer has come with preconceived notions of who God is, that is why his argument, while it works to disprove the god he set up, does not disprove God. You cannot set something up as God, disprove that god, and say you have disproved God.

God is more than infinite, which is why the impossible is possible. He simply Is.
 
I don’t mean to jump to conclusions, buit I’m gonna guess…

Mission Acomplished. Atheism averted. 👍
 
brycelaliberte said:
Don’t know what others have been saying, but I got through one of the first ‘refutes to Aquinas’ first proof.’

The arguer has come with preconceived notions of who God is, that is why his argument, while it works to disprove the god he set up, does not disprove God. You cannot set something up as God, disprove that god, and say you have disproved God.

God is more than infinite, which is why the impossible is possible. He simply Is.
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This is pretty typical of atheists, from what I have seen. They presume that their imaginations of God somehow are the real thing. Most of them also seem to think God is literally “an old man in the sky”. 😃
 
1234 said:
  • Again meaningless life unless there is God and an after life where we must give an account for our actions. Why bother doing the “right thing” when doing the opposite is more fun and therefore increases my “happiness”? Who gets to decide what’s right and wrong? Society, culture, us? More poisonous relativism*

    An enlightened atheist-agnostic supports an Epicurean philosophy of the Golden Mean. I do all things which tend to my greater good and comfort. It is important to contribute to society because I live in it. I give to charities so that my world is safer and better. I get along with people so that I have friends and family and can do my job in peace. I don’t kill animals because they are essential to the world’s order and (usually) won’t hurt me. Only someone who is amoral requires a fear of hell to do good. It is in our own self-interest to actively seek and do good consistently.
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By what evidence do you disprove God? For there is plenty of evidence He is.
 
If these articles distress you, then do not read them. Ultimately they are an atheists opinion intended to distress you and destroy the beautiful faith and belief you have that we humans are not just a random lump of cells destined to die and become worm food.

Despite their intellectualism which appears attractive, all they ultimately offer is a belief that we are born to die and live in the meantime … wandering lumps of flesh and bone with no destiny, no purpose, other than to have sex and work for money.

There is a saying that goes along the lines, “don’t touch s**t because it stinks”

that’s my advice

🙂
 
1234 said:
An enlightened atheist-agnostic supports an Epicurean philosophy of the Golden Mean. I do all things which tend to MY greater good and comfort. It is important to contribute to society because I live in it. I give to charities so that MY**** world is safer and better.
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Not surprising. Though I myself used to believe this was how everyone in the world thought.
 
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