Please Help-I might become an atheist

[IvanKaramozov]

I really need some help in dealing with these articles. They claims to refute many arguments for the existance of God and since I’m just a novice (not even) in my philosophical thinking, these articles really runs circles around my head.

religionislies.com/godnoevidence.html

lhup.edu/~dsimanek/philosop/pudding.htm

They’re rather long, but if anyone can answer only one or more of these arguments I’ll be very grateful. I feel at the moment a disgusting fear of possibly becoming an atheist as a result of these and other like arguments, and I can’t fathom the thought of life as meaningless and existance worthless…‘we’re all going to die anyway so why bother with love, life, compassion, truth, morality, equlity, happiness, education, freedom, power, finding a cure for such disease, contributing to society etc… it all ceases to exist at death so why care’ kind of feeling .

Not to mention the horrific prospect of losing Jesus, whom I’ve recently began to fall so much in love with…that’s a fate infinitely worse than any unspeakable atrocity I can think of.

This was also posted as an answer to the question “Where can I find a formal refutation of Aquinas’ ‘Five proofs of God’, the ‘Quinquae viae’?”

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071126085634AAmdTKO

Any help *at all *would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and God bless

Well, I woulden’t pay much attention to that, looking at the first sight looks like something a pot head philosophy student threw together(just very vague, somewhat incoherant arguments).

I also woulden’t pay to much attention to general philosophy, ultimately they have been going around in circles for the last few thousand years, they only real, substantive improvements in philoosphy, in my oppinion, are those in logic which have exploded in this century, and mathematics, other than that it’s just one philosophy complaining about another.

If you’re new I’d suggust looking at Wittgenstein, Sokolowski, and Kant, Wittgenstin is VERY obscure, as is Kant, so I’d suggust reading ABOUT them first.

Also you may want to look at Dostoevsky.

Godel is very interesting, he was a Christian(although also a Schitzophrenic and the greatest logician to ever live) and he wrote a great deal on a number of topics, but most of his work is in logic and fa beyond most people minds(including mine)

 

[dranzal]

To provide some much needed balance…

peterkreeft.com/featured-writing.htm

The articles on the upper right address God’s existence. His other articles are also good.

Here are some more…

peterkreeft.com/topics-more/20_arguments-gods-existence.htm

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I really need some help in dealing with these articles. They claims to refute many arguments for the existance of God and since I’m just a novice (not even) in my philosophical thinking, these articles really runs circles around my head.

Do not fear S_V7. To me atheism is a belief system (religion) that their (creator) God given soul and intellect allows them to be fascinated with creation, and they feel they have the power, because of their free will to make themselves out to be god’s, in order to create their own worlds. Its like a spoiled little Kid, who finds out he can do what ever he wants with his toys, that is mother and father purchased for him, that he destroys them ultimately. Atheism is fascinated with God’s creation. Creation is there god, There “religion” enlightenment is to think that they can be god over creation. Sounds like the fall of man all over again.

Now that you have been confused by the evil one let the word of God help us.

Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of the present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens.

Atheism is no other than the fallen angels inducing the minds of men not to believe in God their creator and to make themselves out to be like god.

I will even name the evil powers and principalities for you, MASTEMA (the father of lies) thrown down from heaven,

Gadreel the evil one who led Eve astray,

Semhazah the evil one who is the leader of the watchers who had sex with women and beget giants,

Asael the evil one who revealed forbidden mysteries to men, that resulted in weapon making and wars.

Sometimes we have to know are enemies before we can battle them. Call on Michael who calls the battle cry “WHO IS LIKE GOD” Do not be afraid for if God is for you who can be against you.St. Michael has dealt these powers and principalites a deadly blow before. They know there time is limited here, for our Lord Jesus has conquered.

Romans 8:37… NO, in all these things we conquer overwhelmingly through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, no powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to seperate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ephesian 4:14…so that we may no longer be infants, tossed by waves and swept along by every wind of teaching arising from human trickery, from their cunning in the interests of deceitful scheming. Rather living the truth in love, we should grow in every way into him who is the head, Christ,…

So I will pray for you and the souls trapped by the powers and principalities of atheism, who decieve man into believing they can be like god.

 

[holdencaulfield]

They’re rather long, but if anyone can answer only one or more of these arguments I’ll be very grateful. I feel at the moment a disgusting fear of possibly becoming an atheist as a result of these and other like arguments, and I can’t fathom the thought of life as meaningless and existance worthless…‘we’re all going to die anyway so why bother with love, life, compassion, truth, morality, equlity, happiness, education, freedom, power, finding a cure for such disease, contributing to society etc… it all ceases to exist at death so why care’ kind of feeling .

The fact that you are scared of becoming an atheist proves that atheism is wrong. The Holy Spirit is working in your mind right now forcing you to refute these arguments. Most atheists are under educated people who get their giggles by trying to send people to Hell so they will have more company when they get there. Stay strong on your Faith through thick and thin.

“Live such good lives among pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.” (1 Peter 2:12)

 

[1234]

(I know I’m about to sound like a whiney child but it seems like the only way to express myself. Please bear with me )

Your second and third statements don’t seem to match the reality of society. Crime rates are just , I mean murders are so common these days you can’t even turn the tv on without hearing about the shooting on so and so street, it’s like “oh yeah murder…hmm…so how about them Yankees?”
Now I don’t know if they are atheists or enlightened atheist (what is that by the way?) or Christian or whatever, but they certainly aren’t acting like Christians (I am in no way saying that atheist are murderous criminals) and they certainly aren’t contributing to society. I’m in no position to claim the following as true, tis but my rambling thoughts: apparently murderers and such aren’t interested in they’re “greater good and comfort”. It seems to me that they want what they want NOW (drugs money, I don’t know) and without regard for an afterlife where they are to be held accountable, which is what I believe would happen in a world without religion and standard morals. (again, not saying atheists are murderers). And who are we to say what someone’s greater good is? What if I believed my “greater good” was my personal happiness found through material posessions? Why shouldn’t I steal, it makes me happy no? It makes me feel comfortable. Who are you to tell me what’s for my own good? Who are you to tell me what’s right and wrong? So and So had a nice car, I liked it, so I killed him and took it, you have a problem with that?..come to think of it, you have a nice car too." :dts: :doh2:

What do you mean by “better”? What if my view of a good society is not your view? What if I like “the thrill” of a dangerous society? What if I feel that my friends and family are a nusance? Should I just kill them from annoyance? Use them for my benefit? (I love my family by the way )

Continued…
hmm I feel like I’m restateing some of my previous post

Well, if you steal, sooner or later you’ll get caught and go to jail. Ditto with murder. Belief in a god does not prevent people from felonies. In many cases, suicide bombers come to mind, their belief justifies their actions.

I suspect that criminals are amoral; they don’t stand around thinking about philosophy and religion. I don’t that a belief in an afterlife would deter them.

When I was growing up, Protestants criticized Catholics about confession, saying, “Well! (P’s were very intolerant)CATH-o-liks can just *go out *and sin, and receive confession and go out and sin again!!” So Catholics were accused of acting like atheists!

 

[1234]

Men are no better or worse today than they ever have been. If it seems like crime is worse, or people are meaner, it is mainly because you see the live action cam bringing all the grisly details right into your living room, something that wasn’t true even 100 years ago.

Amen. We hear about EVerything now on the telly and computer.

And in the US more than Canada, say, murders, etc. CRIMES make the headlines because they grab attention. Progress, agreement, sweetness and light is so DULL.

 

[1234]

What if I don’t care about the world’s order? I’m only interested in my personal and immediate benifit, after all I’m gonna die and cease to exist right? =(
I know some people who seem to kill animals just for the sake of it =( They say that it “controls the population” but their conversations about it are sometimes rather disturbing.

Again, look at the news, today’s society doesn’t seem to abide by this. Look at the world’s idea of “entertainment.” Sex and violence =( . Please tell my that’s not your idea of good.
And as a refugee in high school, I can tell you that your last statement is not true. Cheating on tests, talking back to teachers (a girl in my class is constantly bringing up my teacher’s “pathetic divorce” and he just laughs:ehh: =( , fights, gossip, laziness in school work (that’s a huge problem I think), not to mention the constant dirty jokes and swear words that sometimes make me want to cover my ears and go " lalalalalal". The other day I was taking a test and you could hear apparently a student arguing with a teacher, and the teacher just yelled “Shut up!” -not a rare thing by the way, though not constant-yet =( , sex in school. I hope you don’t see this as “actively seeking and doing good consistently”. I hate to say it, but it just seems like their self interest lays, well…in their self interest -without regards to anyone else Not everyone at school does these though, this is just my observation, and I really hope it’s wrong.

+++
oh yeah, b4 I go. Here’s some food for thought. I read this quote somewhere and you might think about it if you want. Atheist’s have probably heard this many times before but o well, million and one. I believe it’s from Pascal’s Wager (and yes I’m aware that it has flaws, but I still like the quote)
Here’s my paraphrase from memory:
“There are two kinds of people in this world. Those afraid to lose God, and those afraid of finding Him.”
:yawn: off to bed now.
G’night!

I am sorry for your school situation, SV. Those kids are not acting according to the Epicurean philosophy! That is, they are not acting in their best self-interest. What happens to them for all their disrespect? Bad grades. Bad recommendations. NO recommendations. No scholarships, honors. No go to college, the mandatory ladder to a better life. Often this sort doesn’t have any friends, not that they can rely on. Very short sighted behavior. Religion isn’t going to bring these kids back into line.

I just think that belief in a god solves nothing. Without or without a god, life is unfair. We should strive to improve it in any case.

If belief makes life easier for you now, by all means, believe. But keep an open mind.

Above all be patient. Work hard, get good grades. Go to college. Life gets better.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I really need some help in dealing with these articles. They claims to refute many arguments for the existance of God and since I’m just a novice (not even) in my philosophical thinking, these articles really runs circles around my head.

religionislies.com/godnoevidence.html

lhup.edu/~dsimanek/philosop/pudding.htm

They’re rather long, but if anyone can answer only one or more of these arguments I’ll be very grateful. I feel at the moment a disgusting fear of possibly becoming an atheist as a result of these and other like arguments, and I can’t fathom the thought of life as meaningless and existance worthless…‘we’re all going to die anyway so why bother with love, life, compassion, truth, morality, equlity, happiness, education, freedom, power, finding a cure for such disease, contributing to society etc… it all ceases to exist at death so why care’ kind of feeling .

Not to mention the horrific prospect of losing Jesus, whom I’ve recently began to fall so much in love with…that’s a fate infinitely worse than any unspeakable atrocity I can think of.

This was also posted as an answer to the question “Where can I find a formal refutation of Aquinas’ ‘Five proofs of God’, the ‘Quinquae viae’?”

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071126085634AAmdTKO

Any help *at all *would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and God bless

Faith isn’t something that just falls out of the sky, you have to keep it alive.

Pray, read your Bible, go to mass.

Think of your life without Christ, and if that is not the life you want, then stop chasing after things you don’t want.

 

[S_V7]

Men are no better or worse today than they ever have been. If it seems like crime is worse, or people are meaner, it is mainly because you see the live action cam bringing all the grisly details right into your living room, something that wasn’t true even 100 years ago.

I’m not so sure that’s the case. Does anyone know of some statistics concerning this?
And I really don’t watch much tv anymore. Most of my observations are made at school. My mother, a teacher’s aid, has said that every year kids seem to be getting worse, and she’s not the only one whose said this. Not to mention the immense drop of morality in entertainment (one of the reasons as to why I dislodged myself from the tube), I’m fairly certain that some of the things they dare call ‘appropriate’ would ever make it on tv 30 years ago

---

Well, if you steal, sooner or later you’ll get caught and go to jail. Ditto with murder. Belief in a god does not prevent people from felonies. In many cases, suicide bombers come to mind, their belief justifies their actions.

I doubt all criminals will get caught by the police and go to jail.

Belief in a god does not prevent people from felonies.

I have a strong, desire I guess you might call it, to answer this in length but I don’t trust my immature knowledge of theology and moral theology and fear I might make a mistake and mislead someone. From what I can see, criminals may believe in God but never grow past that. They might not have that intimacy with Him and therefore see no real consequence in their actions. I hate to admit that I once thought about the afterlife as such: “I’ll think about it later, I’m not such a horrible person so I think I’ll get in to Heaven.” Perhaps many criminals presume on the mercy of God, while pushing aside his justice. Just my thoughts.

As for suicide bombers, they may claim that their beliefs justify their actions, but that doesn’t mean their beliefs or actions are correct. One may sincerly believe the world to be a triangle but that ain’t gonna change the fact that it’s a sphere.
I guess this is where one might get into absolute truths and relativism, but that’s for another thread.

I suspect that criminals are amoral; they don’t stand around thinking about philosophy and religion. I don’t that a belief in an afterlife would deter them.

Well I don’t know what amoral means but as for belief in the afterlife, I think it would make a difference. True belief that is, not just if’s and maybies. If people realized the wonders of Heaven, the gravity of sin, and the terrible reality of hell, I believe you and I would be discussing something totally different

they don’t stand around thinking about philosophy and religion

If only we could, but that pesky school gets in the way. sigh I always dream of replaceing gym and keyboarding with philosophy and theology, i suspect the world would be at least a tad bit different.

When I was growing up, Protestants criticized Catholics about confession, saying, “Well! (P’s were very intolerant)CATH-o-liks can just go out and sin, and receive confession and go out and sin again!!” So Catholics were accused of acting like atheists!

It’s sad, the thing is, many have a misconception of what the Church teaches. If I were to go and confess a mortal sin with the intention of continuing it, I would walk in with 1 mortal sin and leave with 2.

 

[S_V7]

Amen. We hear about EVerything now on the telly and computer.

And in the US more than Canada, say, murders, etc. CRIMES make the headlines because they grab attention. Progress, agreement, sweetness and light is so DULL.

I like progress, agreement, sweetness and light. It’s true though, crimes and tabloids seem to make the headlines.

 

[S_V7]

I am sorry for your school situation, SV. Those kids are not acting according to the Epicurean philosophy! That is, they are not acting in their best self-interest. What happens to them for all their disrespect? Bad grades. Bad recommendations. NO recommendations. No scholarships, honors. No go to college, the mandatory ladder to a better life. Often this sort doesn’t have any friends, not that they can rely on. Very short sighted behavior. Religion isn’t going to bring these kids back into line.

The thing is (again my observation) many people just don’t seem to care.
People know what getting drunk can do and yet many do it anyways.

they are not acting in their best self-interest

That seems true, some seem to act in their self interest (as in ‘I do what I want when I want and how I want’) but not their best self-interest, which would likely require self denial, discipline, work, and obedience.

Often this sort doesn’t have any friends, not that they can rely on. .

form what I can tell, this is false, although I don’t know about the last part.

Very short sighted behavior. Religion isn’t going to bring these kids back into line.

Yes very short sighted behavior.
Well, religion helped me set my priorities straight. And the thing is, many people hear religion and think only do’s and don’ts. But there’s sooooo much more. It’s that love for God that makes things so wonderful. I have found that I am most at peace and joy in Church and in thinking about Him (when a few years ago, I used to fall asleep during Mass ).
If only people knew Who they were ignoring and rejecting. Choosing vain and fleeting beauty as opposed to the Uncreated Beauty…which I am also guilty of doing far too often.
Alas, man’s fallen nature.
But then comes contemplation of His Divine Mercy:heart: …

Again, I’m not saying everyone is like this, it just seems like quite a bunch, especially among teenagers.

I just think that belief in a god solves nothing. Without or without a god, life is unfair. We should strive to improve it in any case.

But when life seems unfair, it’s that love of God that makes thing bearable, even wonderful. As the Saints say:

God has made human beings so noble that every suffering which purifies us and every effort which raises us up gladdens us while making us better.~St. Augustine

Let us strive to face suffering with Christian courage. Then all difficulties will vanish and pain itself will become transformed into joy.~St. Teresa of Avila

The cross is the greatest gift God could bestow on His Elect on earth. There is nothing so necessary, so beneficial, so sweet, or so glorious as to suffer something for Jesus. If you suffer as you ought, the cross will become a precious yoke that Jesus will carry with you ~St. Louis de Montfort

Suffering is like a kiss that Jesus hanging from the cross bestows on persons whom He loves in a special way. Because of this love He wants to associate them in the work of the redemption.
~St. Bonaventure
catholicfire.blogspot.com/2008/01/catholic-perspective-on-prayer-and.html

and two of my favorites from the Little Flower:

*“Life is only a dream: soon, we shall awaken. And what joy! The greater our sufferings, the more limitless our glory. Oh! do not let us waste the trial that Jesus sends.”

“I have come to the point where I cannot suffer, because all suffering has become sweet to me.”*

---

If belief makes life easier for you now, by all means, believe. But keep an open mind…

It doesn’t and does. To live as a faithful Christian in the world is hard work and I’ve failed alot.
I have been made fun of by others for my beliefs, but it really hasn’t bothered me too much and it’s rather encouraging. Besides, what can the world possibly offer that’s better than loving God? I hate to say that I often choose it over Him, but with His help I’ll get through. Having an open mind can be good, but with caution. There’s all sorts of wrong philosophies and weird ideas out there. I found this article on the subject interesting.
catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0401fea1.asp

be patient. Work hard, get good grades. Go to college.

All great advice, but the question begs to be asked. If in the end it doesn’t matter, why bother?

Life gets better

hmm, depending on the definition of ‘better’ this isn’t always the case.
But with God, good or ‘bad’, it can be wonderful.

 

[Righteousone]

I really need some help in dealing with these articles. They claims to refute many arguments for the existance of God and since I’m just a novice (not even) in my philosophical thinking, these articles really runs circles around my head.

religionislies.com/godnoevidence.html

lhup.edu/~dsimanek/philosop/pudding.htm

They’re rather long, but if anyone can answer only one or more of these arguments I’ll be very grateful. I feel at the moment a disgusting fear of possibly becoming an atheist as a result of these and other like arguments, and I can’t fathom the thought of life as meaningless and existance worthless…‘we’re all going to die anyway so why bother with love, life, compassion, truth, morality, equlity, happiness, education, freedom, power, finding a cure for such disease, contributing to society etc… it all ceases to exist at death so why care’ kind of feeling .

Not to mention the horrific prospect of losing Jesus, whom I’ve recently began to fall so much in love with…that’s a fate infinitely worse than any unspeakable atrocity I can think of.

This was also posted as an answer to the question “Where can I find a formal refutation of Aquinas’ ‘Five proofs of God’, the ‘Quinquae viae’?”

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071126085634AAmdTKO

Any help *at all *would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and God bless

Why believe everything you read is taken as truth? Lots of anti-Catholics out there.

 

[paarsurrey]

I’ve decided that God as described in the Christian Bible doesn’t exist, and I want to help build a new world - a techno-utopia.

Hi

That is a peculiar problem of the Catholicism; they have built their religion on a number of mysteries that trouble the enquiring mind and they decide as you have mentioned. I think it would be good, to reduce the mysteries if possible, so that people don’t get confused and frustrated and become nonbelievers.

I love Jesus and Mary.

Thanks

 

[Righteousone]

Hi

That is a peculiar problem of the Catholicism; they have built their religion on a number of mysteries that trouble the enquiring mind and they decide as you have mentioned. I think it would be good, to reduce the mysteries if possible, so that people don’t get confused and frustrated and become nonbelievers.

I love Jesus and Mary.

Thanks

Paarsurrey, why do you love Jesus and Mary? Just curious

 

[paarsurrey]

But keep an open mind.
Above all be patient. Work hard, get good grades. Go to college. Life gets better.

Hi

The above is a good suggestion, I must agree, but with all that
I think an open mind should also be open for God and praying to Him. GodAllahYHWH does solve the problems.

Thanks

 

[mschrank]

1. The ‘Unmoved Mover’ fails at “everything that is moved is moved by a mover”. This is untrue in the quantum world at least, and even without this hole, there is no necessity for the Prime Mover to be supernatural.

Erhg? Quantum Mechanics does not create problems for God. This is really rich. First, it’s supposed to be the clockwork certainty of Newtonian Physics that “puts God out of a job” and ushers in the whole “no-God-needed” framework of the Enlightenment.

Now when that goes way, it’s claimed that no, Newtonian Physics and its destruction actually also destroys the need for God too. What? Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don’t!

1. Ditto the ‘First Cause’ argument fails at “everything that is caused is caused by something else”, which is untrue in the quantum world, where uncaused events are commonplace. Again there is no requirement for a First Cause to be supernatural.

They are not “uncaused”. Does an electron have an equal chance of transforming itself into a pork pie? No, there are regularities that can be reasonably predicted (although not exactly) by mathematics.

LOL, its just that we don’t know what causes them because they are either a) beyond our comprehension or b) we haven’t figured them out yet. Note the subtle equation of “what we can know” with “what is”. Another prime example of “begging the question”, a logical fallacy.

Basically it is saying that if we cannot understand something in material terms with the science we have not, then it is uncaused in itself. Talk about a vast ontological statement! You’d think this would be an example of the limitations of the scientific method, but no…

1. Contingency fails at “something can’t come of nothing”, which applies only in the world of Classical Matter. Virtual particles don’t obey this, and the Big Bang may be a similar event. Both the ‘parallel universe’ and current M-Theory models don’t obey this.

This is not a bad argument, I can admit that- however the fact remains that some outcome of any quantum probability does happen, that at some point the wave has to collapse (i.e., a concrete decision has to be made from various probablities). Why did the big bang happen when it did, not 10 minutes before or 100 million years after? So really, contingency still stands. Also, the Big Bang set the conditions for quantum existance, so there is no reason to assume quantum-level mechanics still applied. But really, this is so much speculation that there is no point in trying to go “before” the BB.

The ‘Degree Argument’ is particularly absurd: first, the notion of ‘perfection’ is anthropocentric; and even allowing this notion, ‘ultimate perfection’ is neither implied, nor assumed, nor required at all.

This is really only absurd if you adhere to scientistic reductionism. However, its the most remote proof of God so I will not bother trying to defend it.

5 The ‘Argument from Design’ has been comprehensively demolished elsewhere. It assumes that the appearance of design must imply design, which is both anthropocentric and wrong

Neo-darwinian monomania does conflict with Aquinas, however I personally do not believe neodarwninism (ND) can account, in total, for every facet of life on earth. There, I said it. I am not an ID-er either, but I have looked at the various schemes out there (ND, ID, various alternative theories) and I think most of them have something to offer.

Finally, to top it off.

Columnist Avelino de Almeida of O Século (Portugal’s most influential newspaper, which was pro-government in policy and avowedly anti-clerical),[1] reported the following “Before the astonished eyes of the crowd, whose aspect was biblical as they stood bare-headed, eagerly searching the sky, the sun trembled, made sudden incredible movements outside all cosmic laws - the sun ‘danced’ according to the typical expression of the people.”[6]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Fatima#Miracle_of_the_Sun

‘No, Father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’

Jesus, the Christ

 

[AgnosTheist]

If we’re just like animals, why would it be wrong to murder?

Because unlike your average animal, we humans have the ability to reason. combine that with the fact that we are social animals, whose survival is based on our ability to cooperate, then you get the idea that murder is wrong.

Besides, why should you be complaining about murder when the every religion, the catholic church, and even the bible itself is guilty of much murder. In the bible itself the supposed “God of love” demanded that infants be slaughtered. Genocide. Could it be that it goes to show that the biblical god is nothing than a reflection of the human animal?

 

[1234]

I have a strong, desire I guess you might call it, to answer this in length but I don’t trust my immature knowledge of theology and moral theology and fear I might make a mistake and mislead someone. From what I can see, criminals may believe in God but never grow past that. They might not have that intimacy with Him and therefore see no real consequence in their actions. I hate to admit that I once thought about the afterlife as such: “I’ll think about it later, I’m not such a horrible person so I think I’ll get in to Heaven.” Perhaps many criminals presume on the mercy of God, while pushing aside his justice. Just my thoughts.

As for suicide bombers, they may claim that their beliefs justify their actions, but that doesn’t mean their beliefs or actions are correct. One may sincerely believe the world to be a triangle but that ain’t gonna change the fact that it’s a sphere.

I guess this is where one might get into absolute truths and relativism, but that’s for another thread.

Well I don’t know what amoral means but as for belief in the afterlife, I think it would make a difference. True belief that is, not just if’s and maybies. If people realized the wonders of Heaven, the gravity of sin, and the terrible reality of hell, I believe you and I would be discussing something totally different

If only we could, but that pesky school gets in the way. sigh I always dream of replacing gym and keyboarding with philosophy and theology, i suspect the world would be at least a tad bit different.

It’s sad, the thing is, many have a misconception of what the Church teaches. If I were to go and confess a mortal sin with the intention of continuing it, I would walk in with 1 mortal sin and leave with 2.

Actually, if jail doesn’t deter criminals then I don’t think belief in an afterlife would!

I hope that I didn’t infer than suicide bombers are correct. Of course they’re wrong. But they believe and they are an example of how beliefs can carry people away from a common-sense Epicurean philosophy.

You have a good mind, SV. Be patient. Keep thinking. You’ll be able (if you want to) to study philosophy and theology in college.

You might look at the atheist thread on this forum and other atheist threads and start debating them a bit, if it doesn’t take too much of your time. Here are two books:

Lord Raglan The Hero

Earl Doherty The Jesus Puzzle.

If these don’t make you question your religion, they will strengthen it.

You can’t hide forever, not with your mind.

 

[1234]

It doesn’t and does. To live as a faithful Christian in the world is hard work and I’ve failed alot.
I have been made fun of by others for my beliefs, but it really hasn’t bothered me too much and it’s rather encouraging. Besides, what can the world possibly offer that’s better than loving God? I hate to say that I often choose it over Him, but with His help I’ll get through. Having an open mind can be good, but with caution. There’s all sorts of wrong philosophies and weird ideas out there. I found this article on the subject interesting.
catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0401fea1.asp
All great advice, but the question begs to be asked. If in the end it doesn’t matter, why bother?

hmm, depending on the definition of ‘better’ this isn’t always the case.
But with God, good or ‘bad’, it can be wonderful.

One thing you should remember is that your brain has not matured nor have the brains of your idiot colleagues matured. This fact is something only recently discovered and is what is behind Graduated Driving Laws. Teenagers’ brains mature, especially boys’ brains (!) only in their early twenties. By that time a lot of your idiot colleagues will have re-directed their behaviors; if they don’t, they are going to be in jail, on parole, in rehab, working at dead-end jobs, or dead. A surprising number of them are going to ‘go straight’, shape up, and move forward.

I don’t want to take your sense of consolation from you. It’s just that things *are *going to get better and that you should keep an open, inquiring mind on religion and philosophy.

Can’t you find some friends of your own, religious or non-religious, who take school, life, extra-curriculars and hobbies seriously? My older daughter got into great summer programs. My younger got into school theater. My older daughter got into great summer programs. My younger daughter got into school theater.

I am an agnostic, not an atheist, btw. It has to do with the nature of knowledge. *I *don’t know. You don’t know. Nobody knows. Faced with the same body of evidence, some will believe, some won’t.

I won’t.

 

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Not surprising. Though I myself used to believe this was how everyone in the world thought.

Point of order:

In quoting me, you did not use the correct emphasis. I did not use Caps in BOLD. I never use this. If I use emphasis, I use italics.

You should put the following:

(emphasis mine)

after portions of other peoples’ writings that you emphasize.