Please help me (marriage problems)

[Broken1001]

I need help please. I am at my wits end.

What I have done
I stopped drinking so much because she said I was an alcoholic.
I got a vasectomy (already forgiven, thank you)
I quit performing music because it was interfering with my time at home.
I try to not let the conditions of the house get to me because she says the mental stability of the kids is far more important, so I try to be lenient with it.
I quit sending flirtatious emails and text messages to my wife because they made her uncomfortable.
I started going to mental health treatments to help me sort out my personality.
I stopped asking my wife for sex.

Truth Is
I stopped drinking for my wife, because she said I was a binge drinker, and that it made her uncomfortable and fearful. I never drink more than a six pack a week… am I am alcoholic?
I got the vasectomy because my wife feared being pregnant again for health reasons.
My wife does not want sex with me because she says I am always upset, which has always been the same. I feel that she just doesn’t like to touch me. that is how it feels. We have not made true love in almost 3 years.
My wife never wakes up to see me off to work, my wife never kisses me goodnight. But, I, regardless of what is going on, I always, ALWAYS kiss her forehead before I leave the house.
When I went to my therapists and they would tell me what was wrong and how I needed to express my emotions and feelings… when I did, my wife threatened to leave with the kids, stating that if she is the problem that she would remove herself from the picture, made rash decisions about moving out finding a job and trying to support 4 kids on her own… automatic guilt trip on me. When I would tell her not to leave, she would state that her mind was made… when I told her at least let me help her move on with her life, she stated that I didn’t really care and I was not fighting for it. I COULD NOT WIN EITHER WAY.
I quickly drove home… she mocked the fact that I did… asking me what I was doing there… and I said my marriage is more important than my job right now… she laughed and started reminding me of my ‘work ethic’ and whatnot, so she basically made fun of me.

When we fought that night, she said it was over. So I told her she could leave, but she was not taking my girls… she got out of bed in tears, screamed at me, compared me to her abusive ex husband, said I was just like him and pushed past me. I have never raised my hand to her, not in anger, not playfully, never… NEVER.
When I got in her way and told her to calm down, she knocked me to the ground, hissing at me with anger, and when I got up, she hit me again. I told her I was not getting out of the way and that we were going to talk, then she raised her hand up to hit me again, and pushed past me and went to sleep on the couch…
In tears I begged her to please come back to the bedroom, telling her it was a bad dream… she eventually came back, Then I went outside to smoke… which of course upset her.

During this argument she told me that the house we live in means nothing to her… I have not been able to see her the same way since that remark.

So now, I work hard, go to college full time… 12+ hours a day I am engulfed in work, trying to provide for my family, trying to maintain my GPA, trying to balance my work and college as well as household chores… I feel exhausted. My wife takes it as being depressed and says she refuses to talk if I am ‘in that mood’. She states that I only talk about negativity, never anything positive… so, talking about my rough day at work is a negative thing… where is the support supposed to come in? I thought I was supposed to be ONE with my wife…
… all she has done is confuse me into who she wants me to be. She states that my treatment of the kids is erratic… so, when I ask the kids (politely, like she wants me to) to do their chores, and they don’t do them, I get direct and my discipline comes up… and all of a sudden I am the MEAN ogre who is treating her children like subhumans.
She states that the mental stability of the children is more important that the cleanliness of the house… I mean, does this NOT go hand in hand? A clean house ads to moral and teaches responsibility, does it not?
And when I start to clean the house… all of a sudden I am the mean father figure? When will this idiocy end?

I am at a loss. I have no idea what to do…

She told me she wanted us to go to marriage counseling… so when I set it up, all of a sudden we cannot afford it… and I told her hundreds of times that when there is a will there is a way. I even invited her dozens of times to go with me to my therapist so we could talk as a group… and her excuse for not going is that ‘she does not want to feel attacked’ that he is MY therapist and it would all be one sided.
Well, I reminded her, that if I am the problem I wanted her to go to hear what the therapist was saying about me and what I needed to do… she still refused.

She sees me as the problem… and everyone I have talked to , trying to find some clarity, All of them tell me I am fine, even my therapists tell me that yes, I am stressed out, but I am not different than any hard working man who is trying to provide for his family and run a home…

All I have ever asked her for was a clean house… that’s it. Not a difficult task in my mind because of the elder children who are completely capable of picking up after themselves, doing the dishes and whatever else is needed… especially since they are homeschooled and only ‘study’ for 4 hours a day…am I being too harsh?

Why am I the problem? I do not party, I do not drink, I do not abuse my family… all I do is work hard, try to do my college projects, and maintain a clean home… she disagrees with me… that I am always upset, I am always mad and angry, that I take out my anger on them, and she refuses to accept anything else.

I do not know what to do.

 

[blackst]

1.Go Slow
2., examine your motives,
3.spend time in prayer,
4.put God first not your wife
5.Dont drink
6.Love your wife
7.Continue Catholc Counseling.

Make a list of problems in order of severity.
See what responsibility you have and can change.
Talk slow, and listen to your wife.

Ask your parents and Church to pray for you.

 

[ac_claire]

1.Go Slow
2., examine your motives,
3.spend time in prayer,
4.put God first not your wife
5.Dont drink
6.Love your wife
7.Continue Catholc Counseling.

Make a list of problems in order of severity.
See what responsibility you have and can change.
Talk slow, and listen to your wife.

Ask your parents and Church to pray for you.

I second this advice and really can’t add much to it. Except to reiterate what your responsibility is: love your wife, no matter what. It seems you already have some understanding of this. I would do what blackst said and take a deep breath, go slowly and write it all out to start with. It’s clear that, at least at the time you wrote this post, you’re at your wits end. You and your family will be in my prayers tonight.

 

[Sunflower15]

I’ll pray for you, your marriage & your family…

In the meantime…is there an Adoration Chapel near you? They are open 24/7, so whenever you feel overwhelmed, go there! The quiet, with the Lord, will be incredible…it might take time to adjust…but I think the peacefulness will be therapeutic.

Life if very difficult sometimes. Just hang on…calm down.

Something is bothering your wife. It might not have anything to do with you. She might not even be able to verbalize it. But, until you find whatever that is, life is going to be like a roller-coaster.

See, the truly difficult part in these situations is that both partners need to reconnect with God, individually, and by doing that, will find each other [in Him] to reconnect to each other again. What partners do instead, is to try to reconnect to each other, with all the mess in their heads and hearts, and then, an explosion usually occurs!

Christopher West comes to mind, for the sexual issues…which really will be solved once the other issues are solved. The way West portrays marriage though, helps in all situations. He explains the self- giving nature of the relationship.

It really doesn’t matter much, if at all, whether one is “right” or not. Too much is at stake. Those things can be fixed later [the house, messiness, cleanliness…etc] Neither of you want to end with a spotless, but empty home… Afterwards, things will come back to normal, or become normal even if they never were before.
God must come first, though…or nothing will work.

Just a question. Do you think that maybe the fact that the kids are home all day [home-schooling] makes the day not have a “break” for her? It sometimes happens when people work at home…in essence, they are never “off-work” and stress creeps in, unnoticed…

I think it would be good to relax a little more…especially the “rules”, just for now…

I do find it absolutely beautiful ] that you always kiss her forehead…I know you feel bad she doesn’t reciprocate…but let me ask you…what if you didn’t have a forehead to kiss daily?

This too shall pass…

 

[roselily]

I need help please. I am at my wits end.

How good you are! how good you are!
since you are so unhappy- you must from now try to be happy-I know you have not, and because of that I have a request to make. You understand everything, and are so good and generous you will not refuse what a brother/sister ask you:
Broken, you must from now be happy, for the sake of Children, and at least your wife still care about you, otherwise she will not be so mad, because she still care you, be grave, put on a happy face, show your love-be a man make your wife love and respect.
brother, pray you be happy like Psalm 128 say: You shall be happy, and it shall be well with you.
If you only knew how unhappy I have been when I read your post-
Yes, you are so good, and forgive her , and show more your love and generous, and start to smile now

 

[dulcissima]

What motivation does your wife have to change? It sounds like she expects perfection from you, but wants to contribute nothing. I recommend talking to your priest. I think you need to let her know that the status quo is unacceptable. Clearly let her know what she needs to do to make your marriage work. You can’t do it all by yourself. There need to be consequences for her if she is not going to contribute.

I’m pretty sure if a woman had written your post everyone would tell her to leave. I think you need to look at that possibility.

 

[dulcissima]

I would also ask, does your wife come from a family of alcoholics?

 

[Liberanosamalo]

I feel for you. Being in a can’t-win situation is very stressful and induces depression. I echo what other posters said about the adoration chapel and prayer.

Now let’s talk about your wife’s past. I’ll give you my take on it based on my marriage to an abusive man.

It sounds like she never resolved the scars and issues from that marriage. Sounds also like she went and married a man the exact opposite of the one she was with. (I’ll bet he never cleaned the house and would not have driven home from work with tears in his eyes begging to work on the marriage.)

She doesn’t know how to handle a sane husband.

Read the next sentence carefully:

She is expecting you to turn into her ex.

Yes. Expecting.

Anything you do that even reminds her of him sets off a gut reaction of “here I go again.”

So even though you have never hit her and never would, there are other things her ex did probably to “control her.” Like threatening to leave her or divorce her. That is what abusers do to make a spouse feel helpless, hopeless and make them “behave.” In YOUR head you are expressing how frustrated you are. She HEARS her ex-husband’s threats all over again.

When she accuses your treatment of the kids as being uneven, it’s because in her former marriage, xh would be happy one minute and screaming the next. Abusers control their wives and kids (or husbands) by being psychologically unpredictable. So she sees any surface similarity to that as her husband’s style of crazymaking.

When you offer to take her to a therapist, well, abusers love to do that. They find “their guy” and take the other party so everyone can agree the other party is the problem. So she sees it as being ganged up on. She doesn’t want to go to that. For years in her former marriage, she was told everything was her fault. She’s afraid that will happen again.

You don’t say if xh was a neat freak who demanded the house be kept perfect. You may be poking some old wounds there. Yes, we need cleanliness. Can you pay a cleaning lady once every two or three weeks? Take the burden off your wife. At least a few days the place will seem clean. My xh was a cleanliness nazi. I could never keep the place clean enough for him. Sounds like this issue could be one that predates your marriage.

Her ex may have drunk too much. Maybe she’s afraid any alcohol will lead to abuse. Mine was a mean drunk.

Any threats to take her kids away from her… well, that’s how my xh would reduce me to panic stage.

Her ex was probably also very negative and very moody.

You have reason to be angry. And it comes out in ways that probably trigger PTSD in her. A normal irritated reaction is read by her as you turning into him.

She probably spent years dodging his anger and his moods and his verbal threats and his taking his bad day out on the kids. They also probably have abuse issues from him as a father.

Their mental health is important. But it’s not too much to expect them to make beds.

How about a job sheet with stars and whoever gets the most stars at the end of the week wins.

That family was controlled through fear for years. Now you are the head of the family. The only way you will get ahead is to lead through love and gentleness and good example.

You sound like you are doing more than your share. But until she can get a grip on the fact that you are not her ex it will be a problem. That even though she chose horribly wrongly once, that doesn’t mean she made the same mistake again and you wont’ turn into a raging screaming monster who will take her home and dreams away from her.

When she makes a comment about how the house means nothing to her… that sounds like she’s protecting herself from the biggest threat. My xh used to threaten all the time to kick me out on the street. Eventually I stopped viewing my home as something I needed. I began to view it as something that was impermanent.

Maybe your next session with a therapist you can discuss how not to step on her PTSD triggers. The wounds go very deep when the person who you vow to spend your life with and love with all your heart turns into your greatest fear and enemy.

Keep kissing her gently on the forehead. Assure her that you aren’t the ex. You won’t do to her what he did. You won’t do to the children what he did. You want to help her heal and trust again.

She was conditioned to react to things that normal people don’t react to. With her ex she had to be tuned to the slightest variation in mood because the wrong move on her part could end up with stuff thrown and broken and a physical attack. Your normal tiredness, annoyance or depression to her feels like one of his “moods” that she learned to stay far away from. Maybe if you say “I’m just complaining about work.” Smile at her, and say, “Don’t worry. I won’t start screaming, throwing things and smacking you. I’ll just sit here looking glum for a while and then go watch baseball on tv till the mood passes. You’re safe.” Make a joke of it. See if that coaxes a conversation out of her about what she endured. Has she ever discussed his abuse with you? Maybe you need to talk about that and she needs to hear your opinion of a man who would do that.

I pray she heals. And I hope God gives you strength and wisdom. She sounds very wounded and can’t appreciate what she has now. You don’t say much about her family and what that was like and your in-laws. That might give more of the picture. Do they like you? Were they disfunctional? It just sounded like after she divorced the abuser, she never dialed her own reactions to life back to normal.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

continued…

She’s ready to protect herself against everyone. You need to convince her you’re on her side for the long haul. No more divorce threats. No more leaving threats. Maybe if you contacted a professional who deals with abused wives she might be amenable to that kind of healing and a non-confrontational kind of discussion so you can assure her you want to be part of the solution and not another problem and another failed marriage.

By the way, discussing your emotions with her may not be suitable for someone whose previous husband probably did nothing but let her know every moment of every day just what HE was feeling.

Until your wife gets a grip on her own emotions, she is completely incapable of dealing with yours. Keep talking to your therapist, good friends, relatives. Leave the negative talk for neutral parties.

 

[roselily]

What motivation does your wife have to change? It sounds like she expects perfection from you, but wants to contribute nothing. I recommend talking to your priest. I think you need to let her know that the status quo is unacceptable. Clearly let her know what she needs to do to make your marriage work. You can’t do it all by yourself. There need to be consequences for her if she is not going to contribute.

I’m pretty sure if a woman had written your post everyone would tell her to leave. I think you need to look at that possibility.

Perhaps it is so. But for the sake of children, and he is so good! They shall , They shall, both try to be in peace. I think he can possibly manage.

 

[cinnaboo38]

she sounds like the unstable one. I don’t know what I would do if I were you but I know I wouldn’t put up with someone treating me like your wife is treating you. I wish the best of luck -sincerely

 

[Sunflower15]

Dear Broken,

I’m going to tell you what I always tell my sons. When there are children, it is always better [except in some very extreme circumstances that I can’t even come up with!] for a MAN to stay with the family, no matter what! Let me explain, the father tends to lose control of the children after a divorce, since they usually end with the mother. He is less and less in the picture, even if he doesn’t form another family, and if he does, forget it! Usually, he sees the kids during visits, not there on a day to day basis. And if she forms another family, that too is a problem, wondering how the other guy treats her [in front of the kids] and the kids.

So, I completely disagree with thinking or threatening about leaving. It’s a NO win situation if you do. And, it sounds like you still love her. And, for her to be this mad, she must also still love you. Otherwise, you would have described someone who is apathetic…not the case here.There is some undercover HUGE elephant in this room…that needs to be dealt with.

Getting back to the marriage vows, and how sometimes, if you are running a marathon [not a short sprint] some years will seem pretty bad, other will be better, but you can make it to the end!

It is important to stop the physical fighting.

I also feel for the children. You don’t specify which are yours, but it sounds like the older ones aren’t. Why are they home-schooled? It sounds to me like those kids would benefit from being out of the house a few hours a day…if this is hard on the two adults, imagine on kids! How old are the young ones?

Everyone seems to need some fun…which may seem awkward at first, but in time, would be healthy. Families have fun together…

This is your family. Your “project”. Your treasure. Abandoning ship is not the solution, it just creates other problems…so better strategize how to make thinks slowly better…slowly…peacefully…in control…

Some men don’t have this problem…they don’t have anyone…and they are not just lonely, but alone.

God is always there to help…even when you don’t see/feel it. He IS with you! Find your center, your peace in HIM. Then, you can help your family. This is going to sound harsh, but THAT is what really means to be the “head” of the family…

You are not alone…you have us here, whenever you need us to pray for you, to listen, to try to give you some peace…

 

[grandiosa]

Can I be the odd man out and suggest that being gone more than 12 hours a day, every day, might have left this wife feeling abandoned and bitter? Education is important, but if that dream is getting in the way of being there for the family appropriately, then it needs to be put aside for now and revisited later. When have you had time to romance your wife, if you are gone all the time?

I agree with what Liberanosamalo said about her past. The short version of that is Dr. Laura’s statement that if you rescue a damsel in distress, all you get is a distressed damsel. If she’s really invested in her “victim” status, and the attention and sympathy it gets her, I don’t see how you can fix this.

Are the children yours? Or are they from her first marriage? How long have you been married?

I think what you are learning here is that no matter how much you put into a bottomless pit, you can’t fill it up. Emotionally, that is what your wife is. She should never have remarried until she resolved the issues that led her to stay in an abusive relationship. She should not have obligated you to this!

 

[dulcissima]

Sunflower does make some good points. I would begin to keep a journal of her abusive behavior towards you. She is totally lax with the kids though? That seems like an odd combination. I would expect her to also exhibit controlling behavior with them.

I’m interested by what Liberanosamalo says, but at the same time, I think such baggage doesn’t give her a free pass. I left an abusive marriage. I went to therapy weekly for a year before cutting back to every other week then once a month before I even started dating. If your wife won’t go to therapy, either alone or with you, that speaks volumes about her intentions. My ex wouldn’t go because he didn’t want “everything to be his fault.” People with an alcoholic mindset, regardless of whether they themselves are the actual alcoholic, seem to place a high degree of importance on placing blame. Your wife is concerned that she will be blamed for the problems, and evidently not being blamed is more important than actually fixing the problems. This is not a good model for your children to be growing up in. Do not accept it and do not be afraid of the consequences of doing the right thing.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Oh, I’m not giving her a free pass. It’s just maybe a way he can understand the situation and find a new way to deal with it. She should be grateful she has a husband who cares. But she didn’t get the help she needed after she escaped her abuser, obviously. I remember asking myself years ago “What kind of man would be attracted to the wreckage you are now? Would you want such a man?”

I’m interested in what drew OP to this woman to begin with? Did he like playing rescuer? Is part of his anger now the lack of appreciation for his rescue work? He is trying to work through his issues and he gets points.

She can’t use her ex as an excuse forever. It’s time for her to show her children a different way so they don’t follow her footsteps.

I’m interested also in how long she was homeschooling, how much contact the xh still has with the children and his ability to control her and threaten her still, and whether the homeschooling is a reaction to xh playing teachers off her with regard to the children before.

And I also agree that 12 hours without a break and no help with the kids can make a woman too tired to see things clearly.

I’m also interested in how quickly she remarried after the divorce. She still has lots of work to do on herself.

 

[Broken1001]

First I want to say thank you for all the insight and advice on my situation.

I will try to answer some of your questions to me…

We have been married four years, the first two children are hers, but only the first is from her previous marriage. The second was from the man she started dating after her first divorce… after that she was alone with her children for 6 years until I came into the picture. Today, they are 13 and 10 respectively.
Our two youngest children and my two beautiful girls, and they are 3 and 2… and yes I would die for them.

At first, when we got married, I wanted to homeschool the kids due to the horrendous situation in the public schools in my county. Ok… well we decided not to, and they went to public school… and my wife would stay at home to take care of the house while I went to work. I was working as an Assistant Store Manager for a drywall company and in the evenings I was working part time as a tire technician. Here is the point, we agreed… we AGREED as a couple that we would follow the traditional gender roles. I would work and bring home the bacon, so to speak, she would stay home and take care of the house.

Well… let me just say that I kept my end of the bargain.

Why did I return to college? Well… honestly, my WIFE recommended it because she knew I had a love for creativity. So, I returned to college for the second time to earn my Associates Degree in Graphic Design… and now I am on my way to my Bachelor’s… I am back in college because I love it, and SHE motivated me to do it. She even hinted at trying to obtain my Master’s degree…

She decided to pull both our older children from public school because (1) our eldest son was picked on by bullies and (2) she was sick and tired of the schooling system and their lack of communication with parents. I kept on telling her that if she would just stop ‘babying’ our son and show him how to stand up for himself that this would not happen so much. That he should talk to his teachers, talk to the principal… SAY something! But he would not do it because he kept on saying ‘they do not do anything about it’. So, my wife said, ‘I am pulling him out’… now I wanted to show my son how to stand up to bullying, and fight in self defense… but he preferred his mother’s reasoning and huddled next to her, and she would not agree to anything I said.

I agreed with my wife only on the event that the children will be properly homeschooled by an accreditated home schooling academy and that they be taught proper life skills and responsibility. Well, that was not happening… the house soon turned into a pigsty, my wife was spending more time on the internet with her ‘online message boards’ and the quality of home soon diminished into disarray.

when I would bring up these pointers, she would get angered and say that I did not understand the difficulties of trying to take care of four kids alone. Oh trust me, I KNOW what it was like, because my mother raised four of us… ALONE while my father was on active duty military. So, the whole thing of ‘difficulty’ to me is ridiculous because the reality is that she has too many distractions. That is how I see it.

truth is, while she was alone with her two first children, she was not ‘really’ alone, her parents lived down the street and they would watch the children while she was at work. All she did was go to her parents house after work, I guess she would eat with them, take the kids home… and to bed. That is what I THINK, I am not saying it as a fact.

There is so much more to say… but I will stop here.

 

[Broken1001]

I would also ask, does your wife come from a family of alcoholics?

No, she doesn’t come from a family of alcoholics.

her ex husband was an alcoholic…

the thing is my wife and I used to drink socially together, but then all of a sudden… I am an alcoholic?

My wife goes out with her friends, and drinks until they are stupid and fumbling, she doesn’t call home when she goes out…
I, on the contrary, when I have my ‘guys night out’, i ALWAYS call to check in and I ALWAYS try to come home at a decent hour.

What is wrong with this picture?

 

[TLM08]

I recommend the book “Creating Love” by John Bradshaw. Other works of his are “Family Secrets” and “Homecoming”. Bradshaw’s work absolutely saved my marriage.

 

[mesurman]

No, she doesn’t come from a family of alcoholics.

her ex husband was an alcoholic…

the thing is my wife and I used to drink socially together, but then all of a sudden… I am an alcoholic?

My wife goes out with her friends, and drinks until they are stupid and fumbling, she doesn’t call home when she goes out…
I, on the contrary, when I have my ‘guys night out’, i ALWAYS call to check in and I ALWAYS try to come home at a decent hour.

What is wrong with this picture?

Be patient and prayerful. However your wife needs some counseling it appears to me that she is transferring all of her problems of the past and present onto to you so that she doesn’t have to deal with them and accept them as hers or she just can’t see the reality of it all and is making excuses to delay the inevitable. My prayers are with you and your wife and kids. God Bless.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Ahh. You were raised in a military household.

Your ideas of discipline and responsibility were formed by that.

From what you say, she is teaching your son to be a victim in life, just like she was.

May I suggest family counselling? Bring in EVERYONE so there is no concentration on her alone.

You have a right to prepare your children for the real world and real responsibilities. In fact, that’s your duty.

Can you and her have a talk with the parish priest and have him help you outline a family plan for the future? The wheels are falling off your family.

Does your wife drink with her stupid fumbling friends? Does she come home drunk? Sometimes people tend to project their own behavior onto others.

Call her bluff. Stop drinking altogether. Then if she drinks, call her on it.

Your job is to show your children what being a man really is. Your son won’t have a clue without you. And your little girls need to see it so they know what to look for in a man someday.

As for the house:

Apply the concept of “battlestations” and on Saturday morning, have a new system. No computer or activities till everyone does their pre-assigned chores. Make it kind of fun, and lunch out for everyone afterward. Delegate the chores according to ability. Even the 2 year old can pick up stuffed animals and put them in a box.

One hour of everyone turning to and the place would be liveable.

Otherwise, all you’re doing is training your kids to live like pigs.

I have a bigger problem with your wife and her messageboards. If she’s not instructing the kids and they’re not passing standardized tests or anything, you could have the state interfering with your family life pretty soon. Abusing home schooling priveleges puts it in jeopardy for all the families that do it diligently.

Your son will be in high school. He needs to be in a real school. You need to talk to him about handling bullies. Running away from them doesn’t make them go away.

How much longer with the school for you? It’s good you’re putting yourself in a position to earn more someday. Your wife is playing a passive aggressive game of urging you to do something and then complaining when you do it.

You need joint marriage counselling ASAP. I don’t understand women like that. I would have loved someone to come along and put my family together and help me carry the load. Instead I’ve had to work, raise 3 kids and keep a neat house for 10 years with no family around and no help. I guess the question is, why does your wife see a need to sabotage her chance for happiness?

What messageboards does she hang around? Have you seen what she’s doing? Maybe she’s getting advice that is unhelpful from people with different values.

Keep being strong and dependable and responsible. Your kids will only learn that from you.

I hope your wife isn’t driving intoxicated or in cars with people who do.

Keep coming here to vent. If you aren’t venting at her that might ease some of the stress there.