Please help me out...

[Monica4316]

Monica - stop trying to work this out yourself.

We are just lay people with imperfect knowledge.

Ask your Priest / Confessor / Spiritual Director and abide by his advice

That is what I’m going to do… but do you think there’s any chance of me getting different answers depending on the priest I ask? the canon seems sort of ambiguous and doesn’t define “schism” or “communicatio in sacris” and there might be difference of opinion on this. I don’t know if there’s an official definition somewhere.

I’m really worried after having read that canon and I’m really worried of being excommunicated but not even knowing and receiving the Eucharist unworthily

 

[The_Idiot]

Monica

You have to stop running from person to person and website to website , and Forum to Forum ] posing your questions .

You have a similar thread running on the Eastern Catholic Board at present and you are getting slightly different answers from each poster there .

NONE of us lay people have the deep , detailed knowledge to answer questions like yours re excommunication , worshipping at Services other than Catholic when if I recall correctly you had no option ]

You should be asking ONE priest , not several , and accepting the answer he gives you . You need to** trust** him.

All you are doing with this constant checking is making yourself more and more confused , and worried and this is not helping your spiritual state.

I am praying for you

 

[Diakonia]

thank you! well I’m wondering about something… here it talks about heresy, schism, apostasy, and communicatio in sacris… vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P52.HTM

If a person was doubting the Catholic faith and so visited another (Eastern Orthodox) church and actively worshipped with them though without receiving Communion… (but did participate in their sacred rites) - are they excommunicated??? why does it sound like it, based on the link? would it be schism, or communicatio in sacris??

It would be neither!

Worship and the Divine Liturgy are sacred rites and I would hope that if you attended the Divine Liturgy in an Orthodox Church that you did, indeed, participate in worship - because, given that the Orthodox Church has valid Apostolic Succession and, therefore, valid priestly orders, the Mystery of the Eucharist is validly performed and to not worship in such circumstances would be gravely disrespectful to the Real Presence.

To coin a phrase that describes what you do in concocting these scenarios in which you accuse yourself of ever higher levels of sinfulness, one cannot but help to think of it as the spiritual equivalent of Munchausen’s syndrome.

 

[Monica4316]

It would be neither!

Worship and the Divine Liturgy are sacred rites and I would hope that if you attended the Divine Liturgy in an Orthodox Church that you did, indeed, participate in worship - because, given that the Orthodox Church has valid Apostolic Succession and, therefore, valid priestly orders, the Mystery of the Eucharist is validly performed and to not worship in such circumstances would be gravely disrespectful to the Real Presence.

To coin a phrase that describes what you do in concocting these scenarios in which you accuse yourself of ever higher levels of sinfulness, one cannot but help to think of it as the spiritual equivalent of Munchausen’s syndrome.

Diakonia, but the teaching of the Church is that we should not participate in non Catholic sacred rites…

 

[The_Idiot]

Here we go again

You have not got the answer YOU wanted

Monica - stop asking everyone about this - go and ask your priest and stay off the Internet till he has convinced you.

You need help which none of us can give.

We are not Canon Lawyers - we are ordinary lay folk like you.

You are asking the same questions all the time - you have been given the answers - and yet you reject them because you have read something somewhere and are frightened by it.

Go and ask your priest and LISTEN to him

Do you go to your doctor and say 'I have tummy pain and I’ve read that this is cancer ’ He sends you off to a specialist who says after tests ’ No this is not cancer " Will you then go looking for another Specialist to confirm what you have read and believe ?

Trust the specialist - your priest

 

[Monica4316]

Here we go again

You have not got the answer YOU wanted

Monica - stop asking everyone about this - go and ask your priest and stay off the Internet till he has convinced you.

You need help which none of us can give.

We are not Canon Lawyers - we are ordinary lay folk like you.

You are asking the same questions all the time - you have been given the answers - and yet you reject them because you have read something somewhere and are frightened by it.

Go and ask your priest and LISTEN to him

Do you go to your doctor and say 'I have tummy pain and I’ve read that this is cancer ’ He sends you off to a specialist who says after tests ’ No this is not cancer " Will you then go looking for another Specialist to confirm what you have read and believe ?

Trust the specialist - your priest

You are all assuming that I’m just not getting the answer I “want”… do you think that I want to be excommunicated?

my situation is really complicated… I am actually Eastern Catholic but my church doesn’t have a bishop and my bishop is the local Latin one… however now it seems I’m supposed to follow the Eastern canon law, and they also have a penalty for communicatio in sacris but - who can I ask about this? I dont know… my priest is Latin rite and he might not know these little details in Eastern Canon Law. I don’t attend an Eastern rite parish. So I don’t really know WHO to ask, and my situation is not very simple. It’s not a matter of me getting or not getting an answer I “want”. The answer that I want is that I’m not excommunicated. But what is the truth, I don’t know.

 

[dans0622]

my situation is really complicated… I am actually Eastern Catholic…

Hello again,

So, you’re actually a member of an Eastern Church. Ok. That being the case, you are surely not excommunicated. There are no automatic excommunications in the Eastern Churches. There are no automatic penalties of any kind in the Eastern Churches. This makes your situation as simple as can be.

Dan

 

[Monica4316]

Hello again,

So, you’re actually a member of an Eastern Church. Ok. That being the case, you are surely not excommunicated. There are no automatic excommunications in the Eastern Churches. There are no automatic penalties of any kind in the Eastern Churches. This makes your situation as simple as can be.

Dan

Dan, you’re right there are no Eastern automatic excommunications… but it does say in Eastern Canon Law that communicatio in sacris results in an “appropriate penalty”…

Okay so what I’m going to do, is talk to an Eastern rite priest (though my Bishop is actually the Latin bishop, because my sui iuris church doesn’t have its own bishop, and it doesn’t even exist in my area…) - and I’ll ask him if I’m supposed to follow the Eastern canon law, and what that canon means. If he says there’s some sort of penalty for what I did, I guess I’ll have to speak with the Latin bishop and get that resolved. I’ll also ask a Latin rite priest to clarify about Latin canon law, in case that’s the one I have to follow.

I hope I’ll get this resolved

 

[dans0622]

Dan, you’re right there are no Eastern automatic excommunications… but it does say in Eastern Canon Law that communicatio in sacris results in an “appropriate penalty”…

Okay so what I’m going to do, is talk to an Eastern rite priest (though my Bishop is actually the Latin bishop, because my sui iuris church doesn’t have its own bishop, and it doesn’t even exist in my area…) - and I’ll ask him if I’m supposed to follow the Eastern canon law, and what that canon means. If he says there’s some sort of penalty for what I did, I guess I’ll have to speak with the Latin bishop and get that resolved. I’ll also ask a Latin rite priest to clarify about Latin canon law, in case that’s the one I have to follow.

I hope I’ll get this resolved

Monica,

Since there are no automatic penalties, the only way that you would have been penalized is through a trial. You have not been the subject of any ecclesiastical trial. Nobody has even charged you with any crime.

An “appropriate penalty” means just that. The Judge would take into consideration all the circumstances surrounding the prohibited act and, if the person is proven guilty, impose the penalty that is most just, medicinal, etc.

If you are a member of an Eastern Church, there is no doubt that the Eastern law applies to you in this regard.

Dan

 

[Simpleton]

Has anyone been excommunicated from the Church for being something other than an obstinate sinner? If you have no intention of being an obstinate sinner then why would you care about the reasons for excommunication from the Catholic Church? Not meaning to offend but is this question because of the scrupulosity problem you have been dealing with Monica?

St. Faustina (entry 1485): “**Do not be afraid of your Savior, O sinful soul. I make the first move to come to you, for I know that by yourself you are unable to come to Me. Child, do not run away from your Father; be willing to talk openly with your God of mercy who wants to speak words of pardon and lavish His graces on you. … My Mercy is greater than your sins, and those of the entire world.”–Jesus **

 

[Vico]

Dan, you’re right there are no Eastern automatic excommunications… but it does say in Eastern Canon Law that communicatio in sacris results in an “appropriate penalty”…

Okay so what I’m going to do, is talk to an Eastern rite priest (though my Bishop is actually the Latin bishop, because my sui iuris church doesn’t have its own bishop, and it doesn’t even exist in my area…) - and I’ll ask him if I’m supposed to follow the Eastern canon law, and what that canon means. If he says there’s some sort of penalty for what I did, I guess I’ll have to speak with the Latin bishop and get that resolved. I’ll also ask a Latin rite priest to clarify about Latin canon law, in case that’s the one I have to follow.

I hope I’ll get this resolved

You said: “but it does say in Eastern Canon Law that communicatio in sacris results in an “appropriate penalty”…”

To be precise, CCEO Canon 1440 states that: One who violates the norms of law concerning communicatio in sacris can be punished with an appropriate penalty.

But communicatio in sacris means receiving the sacraments (when prohibited) not attending a liturgy.

There is no question that if you are and eastern Catholic that the CCEO is the appropriate code for you.