Please help me understand...

[Neoteric]

My girlfriend of almost 4 years is moving at the end of April into a home owned by 2 very good friends of hers. They are devout Catholics, and are married.

Recently, they told her that if she was going to move in, that she and I would have to sleep in separate beds. After some discussion they then compromised to us being allowed in the same bed if we agreed to no sexual activity.

Now I went along with this (despite my initial reluctance) to respect their wishes as homeowners, and as a guest in their home. It is tough not being close to the one I love.

Today, she emails my girlfriend and tells her that after speaking to her priest, and because she is a faith leader in her church, that now I am not allowed to spend the night in the same ROOM as my girlfriend.

I understand to some here this is probably not a huge problem, but my girlfriend and I highly value our time together during the night, and sleeping without her next to me is difficult enough when we are at our separate houses…

I don’t necessarily think I can change her mind, but please could someone help me to understand this, and explain this thought process to me. I am 27 years old today, and I have gone through a lot in my life, and it is difficult for me to not feel controlled right now. I don’t understand the danger to the church, to the congregation, to her soul, or to God that this could bring.

 

[1ke]

Today, she emails my girlfriend and tells her that after speaking to her priest, and because she is a faith leader in her church, that now I am not allowed to spend the night in the same ROOM as my girlfriend.

Well, good for them. You should not be sleeping with your girlfriend at all, let alone in their house.

I understand to some here this is probably not a huge problem, but my girlfriend and I highly value our time together during the night, and sleeping without her next to me is difficult enough when we are at our separate houses…

Then get married.

I don’t necessarily think I can change her mind, but please could someone help me to understand this, and explain this thought process to me.

Fornication is grave matter (a serious sin) against the sixth commandment. These friends cannot honor God and condone fornication in their home at the same time.

If you are not religious, then that is your business. But, when a guest in another’s home-- particularly when asking to LIVE with them-- then one must respect their religion and their house rules.

I am 27 years old today, and I have gone through a lot in my life, and it is difficult for me to not feel controlled right now.

Is she being forced to live with these friends? No.

Don’t want to abide by their house rules? Make other living arrangements.

I don’t understand the danger to the church, to the congregation, to her soul, or to God that this could bring.

We commit sin ourselves when we condone, cooperate, encourage, or participate in the sin of others.

 

[Kittycoin]

Sometimes, when we are in error, it is best to be controlled.

Especially when we don’t understand the danger.

Be grateful and thankful that your girlfriend has such hospitable friends. And be considerate of her friends and their concern.

Many Blessings to You

 

[Neoteric]

I already agreed to do nothing sexual in their home. I am fine with that.

Is there a passage in the bible that says that an unmarried man and woman must not be in the same room together when they sleep?

I will abide by their decision whatever it may be, however I would feel more comfortable accepting that if I could see the reasoning.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I already agreed to do nothing sexual in their home. I am fine with that.

Is there a passage in the bible that says that an unmarried man and woman must not be in the same room together when they sleep?

I will abide by their decision whatever it may be, however I would feel more comfortable accepting that if I could see the reasoning.

You are 27, have to live with friends for a certain amount of time, the friends are Christians, they are charitably helping you out and you really, at 27, are flabberghasted that living in sexual sin is not something that God wants or helps you be holy?

I’m sorry to be blunt but your ego and your libido are overriding your logic and what should be your gratitude. Stop being so judgemental about the nice people helping you out!!!
I would encourage you to dive into faith and see why what you and your girlfriend are doing is not only sinful but it is disrespecting her. Big time. You are using her. And she is starting to realize it with the help of the CHurch. You should either get on board and encourage her to become a better person and become one yourself or you should cut her loose so she can grow in holiness and as a person.

Again sorry for the bluntness but “C’mon man!”

 

[1ke]

I already agreed to do nothing sexual in their home. I am fine with that.

Is there a passage in the bible that says that an unmarried man and woman must not be in the same room together when they sleep?

I will abide by their decision whatever it may be, however I would feel more comfortable accepting that if I could see the reasoning.

It is what would be termed a near occasion of sin.

 

[Kittycoin]

Also, we are not Sola Scriptura. We don’t look to the Bible alone for instruction, but also the authority of the Church Herself. I would pay close attention to the words of the priest and take them seriously.

 

[Neoteric]

You are 27, have to live with friends for a certain amount of time, the friends are Christians, they are charitably helping you out and you really, at 27, are flabberghasted that living in sexual sin is not something that God wants or helps you be holy?

I’m sorry to be blunt but your ego and your libido are overriding your logic and what should be your gratitude. Stop being so judgemental about the nice people helping you out!!!
I would encourage you to dive into faith and see why what you and your girlfriend are doing is not only sinful but it is disrespecting her. Big time. You are using her. And she is starting to realize it with the help of the CHurch. You should either get on board and encourage her to become a better person and become one yourself or you should cut her loose so she can grow in holiness and as a person.

Again sorry for the bluntness but “C’mon man!”

First off, I am not the one who needs somewhere to live, I am living fine on my own. Secondly, my girlfriend lives long distance and we don’t get to see eachother often.
Thirdly, she isn’t staying there for free, she is splitting rent, utilities, and paying for half the food even though she is one person.

And you tell me not to be judgemental? You seem to be the one judging people here! Mathew 7:1 anyone? Feel free to turn your gaze onto your own life.

Thank you to everyone in this thread, some of it has helped and others, like this jerk, have taught me that piety does not give one a kind heart or an open mind.

 

[Xantippe]

You’re 27 years old. If you’ve been dating for some time, it’s probably time to start thinking about how to live in the same area and your timeline for marriage.

But it sounds like you and your girlfriend may be moving in incompatible directions.

 

[anonymous_in_fl]

Religion aside: when you are a guest under someone else’s roof, you live by their rules.
Or get a hotel room yourself.

 

[_Virtus]

I will abide by their decision whatever it may be, however I would feel more comfortable accepting that if I could see the reasoning.

If they told you not to park in their driveway would you feel more comfortable accepting it if they also told you why?

Why would the guest of their guest be in any position to feel deserving of reasons for the limitations of license they choose to offer inside their own home?

Can you provide them a verse stating that an unmarried man of no relation has the right to sleep in the same room as an unmarried female in their home?

These people don’t seem to owe you anything. I can’t understand why you feel you are owed anything from them.

A man if 27 years should not be concerned with the “sleepover”’ rules at all. This is the realm of a 7 year old boy.

 

[PennyinCanada]

Hi and Welcome to Catholic Answers!

Since the pill has become widely available to everyone, having sex and making babies has become divorced from each other.

Before the pill, everyone understood that sex and babies go together. Before the pill, there was honorable courtship, and then a man and woman had to come before family, friends, and God to declare their love, and to make a life long commitment to each other, before having sex. This made sure that the babies that would come would have both a mother AND a father to raise them. This was God’s design from the beginning.

With the pill and other means of contraception, what has happened is that more people, and at younger ages, have been sexually active. What this has brought to society is…

1. Not only more people infected with sexually transmitted diseases, but there are now more types of diseases to catch. Those that can be treated with antibiotics are becoming resistant. Many have no cure, AIDS being a terrible scourge. There is also a connection between some STD’s and cancer developing. Why did we need to bring this upon ourselves?
2. More sexual activity means that there are more ‘oops’ happening, like the young lady forgetting a pill or two at a critical time, or a condom breaking. This has brought a skyrocketing amount of young pregnant teens. This lead of course to the huge demand for abortions to ‘fix the problem’, and millions and millions of babies have never been able to see the light of day. Aborted and discarded. This is not good for women, and certainly murdering babies because of inconvenience is not good for babies!
3. Those pregnant women who did not have an abortion have been abandoned by their boyfriends who said they loved them. The huge amount of people living in poverty are women with babies with no husband to support them. This is not good for women, or for babies, or for the young men who think sexual activity and it’s consequences don’t have anything to do with them. This is not good for society or the nation that must support this situation.
4. The pill has permitted sex outside of marriage and infidelity. Promiscuity before marriage and promiscuity after. Without consequences, why not? What has happened to the divorce rate with what the pill offered? We can live together before hand to ‘try it out’ and ‘see if we are compatible’, and yet with these empty promises, we have an over 50% divorce rate. Marriage has been in ruins since the pill has come on the scene. This is not good for men or women, or their children, or the nation.

None of the above mentioned is within the design of God for marriage and family life. If we could wave a magic wand and have everyone follow God’s design, you know what would happen? Teenage pregnancy would disappear and the resulting poverty. STD’s would disappear, including AIDS and some cancers. Who wouldn’t want to see this happen? Yet this is what we enjoyed before the pill became available. The frightening thing about this is that we’ve forgotten how it was, and not that long ago! We’ve forgotten who we are as children of God who can choose to walk in His blessing, and not take on this awful curse upon ourselves and our nation.

This is why I’ve typed all of this. We’ve forgotten how to walk in God’s blessing. You as a young man can choose today to bring blessing upon yourself and your beautiful girlfriend, treat her honorably from this point on, and discern whether you are meant to be married, in a sober and thoughtful way. Men and women cannot think straight when they get the hormones of sex involved and many have gotten married and wondered later What on earth was I thinking? God designed sex to be the super-glue of marriage, and you’ve applied the super-glue before it’s time.

I am grateful for the witness of this couple to you both. It gives you time to pause and think how you will go forward. Begin to pray and ask God to give you the desire to walk in blessing today. God’s blessing can be yours! On your marriage, should that happen in the future, and on your children. Grab a hold of that today! It’s yours for the asking.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

First off, I am not the one who needs somewhere to live, I am living fine on my own. Secondly, my girlfriend lives long distance and we don’t get to see eachother often.
Thirdly, she isn’t staying there for free, she is splitting rent, utilities, and paying for half the food even though she is one person.

And you tell me not to be judgemental? You seem to be the one judging people here! Mathew 7:1 anyone? Feel free to turn your gaze onto your own life.

Thank you to everyone in this thread, some of it has helped and others, like this jerk, have taught me that piety does not give one a kind heart or an open mind.

It was wrong of them to change the rules after you all agreed and she moved in and started paying rent. Because she’s paying rent, she is a tenant and they need to honor the previous agreement, even if it was only verbal. In most states, you could get an attorney and force them to stick with the previous agreement until her lease is up. (And to the people saying that you can’t condone fornication under your roof, legally as soon as you start accepting rent, the rules and situation change drastically. The girlfriend is not a guest, she’s a resident and this is a business transaction).

But is that really something you want to do to her friends? Over this? Yes, they are being rude, disrespectful, and it could be said that they tricked your girlfriend into moving in under false pretenses, but do you really want to harm her friendships and make the rest of the time she lives there an awkward nightmare for her? I know that in her position I would be hurt and annoyed, but I wouldn’t press the issue unless they started making other “rules”. My peaceful living situation and friendships just wouldn’t be worth it.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

First off, I am not the one who needs somewhere to live, I am living fine on my own. Secondly, my girlfriend lives long distance and we don’t get to see eachother often.
Thirdly, she isn’t staying there for free, she is splitting rent, utilities, and paying for half the food even though she is one person.

And you tell me not to be judgemental? You seem to be the one judging people here! Mathew 7:1 anyone? Feel free to turn your gaze onto your own life.

Thank you to everyone in this thread, some of it has helped and others, like this jerk, have taught me that piety does not give one a kind heart or an open mind.

I am sorry that you were offended by my post. The internet is a tough place to get advice and there is no room on these threads to coddle. Look at it from my perspective. You are a first time poster that posts on a subject that is black and white morality and plain as day in the bible, the Church and the entirety of Christian history. In my experience your stay will be short because you will not receive the answers you want to hear. But this thread will be here for an indefinite period of time. And I feel that honest truth not only best serves you, but also anyone else who may happen across this thread in the future.
Matthew 7:1 is often misunderstood. Would you use that verse to defend a child molester? Probably not. I am fully prepared to be judged by the same standard I set out in my first post. Because I am a faithful follower of Christ I realize that it is a VIRTUE and a requirement of admonish the sinner. To try to help others achieve heaven. I find it odd though that you use the Bible to make a point when your actions are clearly condemned. Perhaps instead of Matthew 7:1 you should try this one.

Matthew 5:28
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Now I don’t think anyone will win a war of Bible quotes here. But I don’t understand a few things. Why is your girlfriend staying in this place? Does she want to? If she does not want to then perhaps she should look elsewhere. Why is it that you have not taken this woman you say you love and acted in her best interest. Married her, provided a home for her and made a family? Why do her friends seem to care more about her and her soul than the man who is in love with her? Why is she willing to let you potentially create life with her and share the most intimate of expressions that could possible bring about human life and yet you two are not willing to get married or share a home?

Finally, if it is biblical justification or theological understanding you seek, please search these forums under the search button for “premarital sex” You will be given all of the verses you desire and the teaching of two millennia of saints and the Holy Spirit through the Catholic Church.

PS

To be fair and to show that I am concerned about truth and not just a theological point. I would like to point out that if your girlfriend is paying rent it may very well be illegal to enforce sexual morality rules upon a tenant. They may argue that you cannot “sleep” there but as for who engages is the various sex acts and where, there may be no standing to make that demand legally. Though certainly they can request you respect them and their wishes. And you should.

 

[The_Bucket]

The internet is a tough place to get advice and there is no room on these threads to coddle.

This isn’t Reddit, Something Awful or 4chan. No, there’s no room to coddle sin, but there is reason to treat people with respect. Remain firm on the teaching to be sure, but explain out of charity. And do so in a way that others see that you are coming from a place of love and not judgment.

To be fair and to show that I am concerned about truth and not just a theological point. I would like to point out that if your girlfriend is paying rent it may very well be illegal to enforce sexual morality rules upon a tenant. They may argue that you cannot “sleep” there but as for who engages is the various sex acts and where, there may be no standing to make that demand legally. Though certainly they can request you respect them and their wishes. And you should.

He should respect their desires because they are good and holy, not because “it’s polite” or some other nonsense. BEL has a strong point that the girlfriend is a tenant and the relationship there is and should be a business one. The question of whether the OP wants to create “drama” by acceding to these requests is a wholly different matter.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

This isn’t Reddit, Something Awful or 4chan. No, there’s no room to coddle sin, but there is reason to treat people with respect. Remain firm on the teaching to be sure, but explain out of charity. And do so in a way that others see that you are coming from a place of love and not judgment.

He should respect their desires because they are good and holy, not because “it’s polite” or some other nonsense. BEL has a strong point that the girlfriend is a tenant and the relationship there is and should be a business one. The question of whether the OP wants to create “drama” by acceding to these requests is a wholly different matter.

I meant no disrespect. I feel this has been handled more respectfully than the OPs original attitude.

 

[PennyinCanada]

It was wrong of them to change the rules after you all agreed and she moved in and started paying rent. Because she’s paying rent, she is a tenant and they need to honor the previous agreement, even if it was only verbal. In most states, you could get an attorney and force them to stick with the previous agreement until her lease is up. (And to the people saying that you can’t condone fornication under your roof, legally as soon as you start accepting rent, the rules and situation change drastically. The girlfriend is not a guest, she’s a resident and this is a business transaction).

Perhaps the only reason she is there is because of friendship and they are extending their home as a kindness, not because they were needing or wanting a renter.
Talking legal jargon is pretty heavy handed. They likely didn’t ask for a security deposit of 2 months rent, or went through a back ground check. Probably sharing some meals together. Plus, she is free to move out if she doesn’t care for the arrangement. Perhaps it is only temporary until she can get settled on her own. If the poster is feeling deprived, he can supplement her funds so she can rent elsewhere, if funds are an issue.

 

[The_Bucket]

I meant no disrespect. I feel this has been handled more respectfully than the OPs original attitude.

Gotta meet people where they are. That’s my main point.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I am 27 years old today, and I have gone through a lot in my life, and it is difficult for me to not feel controlled right now. I don’t understand the danger to the church, to the congregation, to her soul, or to God that this could bring.

To me, this is the most important part of the OPs post. Not the legality of the arrangement or the politeness between friends. That the OP can type this

I don’t understand the danger to the church, to the congregation, to her soul, or to God that this could bring

Needs to be addressed. And that is where my questions come in. The OP needs to clarify a few things. Is the OP or the girlfriend Catholic or Christian? What is the situation that they can not get married and live a moral life? Does the OP have an understanding of spirituality, God, or the Church that would enable him to not understand the pretty basic teaching here?

IF the Op is truly concerned about a soul of his beloved. He should take actions to protect it!!

One of the reasons I am pretty rigid on this thread is that the issue sounds like a teenager complaining about something but this is a grown man. At 27, I assume the maturity to look at this situation a little more openly than “I can’t have sex when I want”

IF the couple is having sex then there is potential life coming into play. ANd if the potential life were a girl in about 17 years the OP could be having this conversation with a daughter and her boyfriend, That is thy the OP needs to take a deeper look into morality, religion, and the values he and his girlfriend are engaging in.

I can tell you that there is more going on here than meets the eye. Some things are not adding up.

Clarification from the OP would be great! I just hope I have not judged him away!

 

[_Virtus]

It was wrong of them to change the rules after you all agreed and she moved in and started paying rent. Because she’s paying rent, she is a tenant and they need to honor the previous agreement, even if it was only verbal.

I don’t think anyone has yet moved in to the home in question so it is unlikely that anyone has paid any rent yet, either, as the move-in date is still 40 days in the future. I don’t think any rules have technically “changed” as the contract has likely not yet been entered into by either party.

“My girlfriend of almost 4 years ***is moving at the end of April ***into a home owned by 2 very good friends of hers. They are devout Catholics, and are married.”