Please help me understand...

[Neoteric]

Thank you BlueEyedLady, Sunbreak, Hoosier, 1ke, Monicad and everyone else for your responses. I would not want to do anything that would jeopardize their beliefs, reputations, or their church. As you probably realized, I was very emotional in my post and was struggling.

I am glad I decided to come here. I found out that “To Explain & Defend The Faith” was more “defend first explain later”, but that’s understandable.

If you all don’t mind maybe I will post on occasion, I am not afraid of learning or of opinions (and giving out mine).

 

[1ke]

the God I choose to believe in would never damn anyone to hell based on geographical birth, and that almost every religion believes anyone born outside it’s walls are doomed.

Funny. That’s the same God I believe in. Perhaps you are unaware that the Catholic Church does not teach what you just proposed.

This is not to say I denounce your beliefs or disrespect them.

Those are not Catholic beliefs.

 

[underacloud]

Am I religious? I am baptized catholic, attended the church when I was younger and then against the wishes of my mother waned in faith over the years. I read a lot, studied a lot of different world-views and decided that the God I choose to believe in would never damn anyone to hell based on geographical birth, and that almost every religion believes anyone born outside it’s walls are doomed. I decided to believe in the presence of good in the world, whatever created it, and it’s people rather than choosing the book I liked best or happened to be taught first.

The good news is that this is not a teaching of the Catholic Church. The Catholic faith leaves plenty of room for anyone to go to heaven, if they respond to God’s grace regardless of their particular circumstances.

 

[Neoteric]

Funny. That’s the same God I believe in. Perhaps you are unaware that the Catholic Church does not teach what you just proposed.

The second Vatican council addressed this and said, and I quote,

“Those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.

Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.
She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life."

My focus draws upon “not yet” and “preparation for the Gospel” and also “so they may finally have life”. I don’t know what conclusion you draw from this, but to me it clearly states that unless you eventually find god and accept his gospel, you won’t be saved.

I truly hope I am wrong.

EDIT: Also, I was making a broad generalization about my search for truth. I apologize if I am mistaken.

 

[1ke]

Well, “not yet” could be someone’s entire life. Some never get there, through ignorance, through cultural bias, through isolation, through traumatic experiences, etc.

From the catechism:

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”

 

[underacloud]

The second Vatican council addressed this and said, and I quote,

“Those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.

Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.
She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life."

My focus draws upon “not yet” and “preparation for the Gospel” and also “so they may finally have life”. I don’t know what conclusion you draw from this, but to me it clearly states that unless you eventually find god and accept his gospel, you won’t be saved.

I truly hope I am wrong.

EDIT: Also, I was making a broad generalization about my search for truth. I apologize if I am mistaken.

You are indeed wrong in your reading of that. But to make the position clearer, here is what Pope John Paul II wrote in Redemptoris Missio:

“The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the gospel revelation or to enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation.”

 

[PJM]

=Neoteric;11818470]My girlfriend of almost 4 years is moving at the end of April into a home owned by 2 very good friends of hers. They are devout Catholics, and are married.

Recently, they told her that if she was going to move in, that she and I would have to sleep in separate beds. After some discussion they then compromised to us being allowed in the same bed if we agreed to no sexual activity.

Now I went along with this (despite my initial reluctance) to respect their wishes as homeowners, and as a guest in their home. It is tough not being close to the one I love.

Today, she emails my girlfriend and tells her that after speaking to her priest, and because she is a faith leader in her church, that now I am not allowed to spend the night in the same ROOM as my girlfriend.

I understand to some here this is probably not a huge problem, but my girlfriend and I highly value our time together during the night, and sleeping without her next to me is difficult enough when we are at our separate houses…

I don’t necessarily think I can change her mind, but please could someone help me to understand this, and explain this thought process to me. I am 27 years old today, and I have gone through a lot in my life, and it is difficult for me to not feel controlled right now. I don’t understand the danger to the church, to the congregation, to her soul, or to God that this could bring.

here’s the explanation; but if your not a Christian, it may not make sense to you

"It is I [God] who bring both death and life" (Dt 32:39)

Sex is a free gift from God and intended for MARRIED man and wife. The Purpose of marriage is three fold: 1. to help each other get to heaven 2. “Unitive” 3. Procreative

1. Married couple must BOTH OBEY God’s Commandments; rules and mandates as taught by His One true Church. [Your Friends ARE seriously wrong in permittin you to “sleep” together in their home
2. The Unitive function cannot be separated from the Procreative responsibility. Sexual intercourse is to be ENJOYED by both the husband and the wife; and it builds a BOND between them. Sex out side marriage is always a Mortal sin.
3. All sexual intercourse MUST be open to the POSSIBILITY of a pregnancy. So says GOD! [Genesis 1:26-28] . We know that not every act of unprotected sex results in a pregnancy. WHY> Because God himself built into women a fertile and an infertile period so that artificial means which DO USURP God’s control do not have to be used.

My suggestion friend, is MARRY her!

God Bless you,
patrick [PJM]

 

[CatholicRaven]

I can understand your confusion, but you are wrong about what it means. It’s a way of saying that we can trust in God’s Mercy for those who never have an opportunity to hear the Gospel message–and that we should not assume they cannot be saved (almost the opposite of what you’re saying!).

In general, it means that if, through no fault of your own, you do not know about the Gospel, but you strive to live a good life, you can still be saved through God’s grace and mercy.

By referring specifically to those “not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God…” it is clarified that those who have arrived at that knowledge are in a different situation, and therefore, this particular passage does not apply (though it is still not saying those are doomed to hell, either). It’s clarifying the difference between rejecting the Gospel, and having no knowledge of it in the first place.

It’s also saying that good and truth can be found in these people’s beliefs (and these truths are given by God) even though they have not yet heard the Gospel–and that if they do have the opportunity to hear/read/learn the Gospel message, those truths they already believe will help them to understand it and accept (or knowingly reject) it.

And this part: “She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life.”

The Church knows that whatever good and true things that these people believe has been given to them by God so that they may also get to Heaven.

Hope that helps!

 

[Neoteric]

Well then, thanks for enlightening me everyone

 

[Galbin]

Hi Neoteric

Is your gf a practicing Catholic? What does she think about this? If you know she is ‘the one’ why can’t you get engaged? I understand waiting to marry, but why not get engaged?