Please Help Me with Liturgical Music Documents

[Marysann]

Our organist told me this evening at Mass that our priest no longer wants us to sing the ordinary parts of the Mass as we have been doing for several years. He just wants us to sing hymns so that we no longer pray in song, but we make the Mass into a sandwich with prayers between hymns. She explained that he felt that this helped people to pray and meditate! I have read Musicam Sacram, and so I know that this is not the mind of the Church on this matter. Vocimike, or Benedictgal or any of you other knowledgeable church musicians out their, can you give me the names of any other documents on this subject? I want to talk to Father about this myself, but I want to have the Church documents in hand. After every Mass we pray as a congregation to promote the teachings of the Pope. I know that this is not what our Holy Father would want, but I need to be able to prove it. Thanks for your help.

 

[Phemie]

Our organist told me this evening at Mass that our priest no longer wants us to sing the ordinary parts of the Mass as we have been doing for several years. He just wants us to sing hymns so that we no longer pray in song, but we make the Mass into a sandwich with prayers between hymns. She explained that he felt that this helped people to pray and meditate! I have read Musicam Sacram, and so I know that this is not the mind of the Church on this matter. Vocimike, or Benedictgal or any of you other knowledgeable church musicians out their, can you give me the names of any other documents on this subject? I want to talk to Father about this myself, but I want to have the Church documents in hand. After every Mass we pray as a congregation to promote the teachings of the Pope. I know that this is not what our Holy Father would want, but I need to be able to prove it. Thanks for your help.

I’d start with the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy & Musicam Sacram. Most of the other documents I know are American so they might not be taken seriously by your pastor.

But singing the 4 hymns and not the Ordinary is just doing things backwards.

 

[benedictgal]

Here is the link to the new USCCB document:
usccb.org/liturgy/SingToTheLord.pdf

Although I am not a big fan of it, the document does spell out the hierarchy of what is supposed to be sung during Mass, especially on Sundays and Solemnities.

There is a particular hierarchy involved:

First Tier
Gospel Acclamation (Alleluia or Lenten)
Sanctus
Memorial Acclamation
Great Amen

Second Tier
Kyrie
Gloria
Responsorial Psalm
Agnus Dei

Third Tier
Processional Hymn
Offertory Hymn
Communion Hymn
Recessional Hymn

If you do not sing the entrance hymn nor the Communion hymn, you need to read the corresponding antiphons.

Now, the Alleluia/Gospel Acclamation is to be sung. If it’s not sung, it is omitted. In other words, if it ain’t sung, it ain’t done.

In our parish, my PV will sing the first tier when there is no choir or no cantor. He will then lead us in praying the entrance and Communion anitphons. This is also what he does at Daily Mass. Now, during solemnities, he will chant the Kyrie and the Gloria (plainsong English).

I hope this helps.

 

[bpbasilphx]

How odd!

In my Episcopal days, even Morning Prayer parishes sang the Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei.

 

[muledog]

Marysann,

You might try heading over to the Adoremus website. They’ve got tons of liturgy-related articles, especially in the area of Sacred Music.

They’ve also got some original articles by some of their regular writers, which can be extremely helpful when speaking to parish liturgists and musicians.

 

[muledog]

Might I suggest reading Pope John Paul II’s [. I have also stressed the need to"]Chirograph on Sacred Music]("http://forum.catholic.com/On various occasions I too have recalled the precious role and great importance of music and song for a more active and intense participation in liturgical celebrations[9) (2003). It is full of his musical insights, including the following:

On various occasions I too have recalled the precious role and great importance of music and song for a more active and intense participation in liturgical celebrations. I have also stressed the need to “purify worship from ugliness of style, from distasteful forms of expression, from uninspired musical texts which are not worthy of the great act that is being celebrated”, to guarantee dignity and excellence to liturgical compositions

 

[Marysann]

Thank you all for your help. I have printed Musicam Sacram off the internet, but I would like to find it published so that I could buy a few copies to give to people who need to read it. I looked at Paulist Press which publishes a lot of Church documents, but they didn’t carry it. Does anyone know who might publish it? I am also going to print out the Chirograph on Sacred Music which I had never read before. It shows that Pope John Paul cared about sacred music despite what was played at some of his Masses. I have also found the chapter on sacred music in Pope Benedict’s book The Spirit of the Liturgy. He is great on distinguishing between the sacred and the profane.

 

[muledog]

Thank you all for your help. I have printed Musicam Sacram off the internet, but I would like to find it published so that I could buy a few copies to give to people who need to read it. I looked at Paulist Press which publishes a lot of Church documents, but they didn’t carry it. Does anyone know who might publish it? I am also going to print out the Chirograph on Sacred Music which I had never read before. It shows that Pope John Paul cared about sacred music despite what was played at some of his Masses. I have also found the chapter on sacred music in Pope Benedict’s book The Spirit of the Liturgy. He is great on distinguishing between the sacred and the profane.

I’ve got Musicam Sacram in pamphlet form at home. It’s one of those printed by the Daughters of St. Paul, but I couldn’t find it on their website. You might have better luck.

I do know that our local Catholic bookstore has copies of it. I’ll ask them where they got 'em from when they open up on Thursday.

 

[Marysann]

Thank you, Muledog, for offering to check on this for me. I am not in the US, and we do not have good Catholic bookstores here.

 

[benedictgal]

Thank you, Muledog, for offering to check on this for me. I am not in the US, and we do not have good Catholic bookstores here.

Marysann, you might want to check www.adoremus.org as they carry a lot of the documents on their website. They are listed by subject and the site is easy to navigate.

 

[Marysann]

Adoremus is a great site for liturgical documents, and I downloaded Musicam Sacram from there and printed it for myself. I am interested in purchasing copies of this document from a real Catholic publishing house to give to people who I think would benefit from reading it because I think that it would make more of an impression on them than my just giving them copies of internet downloads. Besides, we live in the land of A4 paper, and I need to conserve my 8.5 x 11 inch paper!

 

[benedictgal]

Adoremus is a great site for liturgical documents, and I downloaded Musicam Sacram from there and printed it for myself. I am interested in purchasing copies of this document from a real Catholic publishing house to give to people who I think would benefit from reading it because I think that it would make more of an impression on them than my just giving them copies of internet downloads. Besides, we live in the land of A4 paper, and I need to conserve my 8.5 x 11 inch paper!

You might try Amazon.com as they carry books on just about everything. Pax books is the Vatican’s official bookseller. You can find them at www.paxbooks.com . Of course, since you are in Israel, you will probably be paying a hefty price for shipping and handling, so Amazon.com might be your best bet, since they have distributors all around the world.

 

[Marysann]

Benedictgal, thank you for the link to Pax books, but I was unable to find Musicam Sacram there. When I do find it postage be no object because we use APO, the American military postal service so it is really an American address. Thanks again for your help. I know that I should be satisfied that we have a reverent Mass at which to worship, but I would like us to worship with the mind of the whole Church. I hope that I can help make a difference here.

 

[LauraSings]

Musican Sacram is one of the Documents of Vatican II, so you ought to be able to access it at least as a portion of the Documents of Vatican II.

Don’t forget the General Instructions on the Roman Missal! (GIRM) Music issues are addressed there, too.

Also, incorporated by reference in Musican Sacram: the Motu Proprio of Pius X, which I believe I found years ago through Adoremus…

The new American doc on music in liturgy is sort of confusing, reads as if the bishops are trying to appease everyone and not really asserting anything. I’m very disappointed in it, and am withholding final cheers or groans until I hear the decisions about American hymnody. And I will confess: I am not optimistic.

The Ordinaries really ought to be sung whenever possible. What Mass Settings are you using? The Gloria, for instance, is supposed to be sung straight through by the entire body of the Faithful, not broken into verses with a refrain that is the only thing the Faithful can sing - yet we have Mass of Creation (a.k.a. “mass of distraction”), Mass of Praise and Thanksgiving, etc. - far better is The Heritage Mass (even if you can’t get a choir to sing the descants).

Could it be that your pastor is abandoning singing these prayers rather than having them incorrectly sung?

Good luck!

 

[Phemie]

The Ordinaries really ought to be sung whenever possible. What Mass Settings are you using? The Gloria, for instance, is supposed to be sung straight through by the entire body of the Faithful, not broken into verses with a refrain that is the only thing the Faithful can sing - yet we have Mass of Creation (a.k.a. “mass of distraction”), Mass of Praise and Thanksgiving, etc. - far better is The Heritage Mass (even if you can’t get a choir to sing the descants).

Could it be that your pastor is abandoning singing these prayers rather than having them incorrectly sung?

Good luck!

Actually the Gloria (as well as the Entrance, Offertory & Communion hymns) can be sung by the choir only, it’s one of the options in the GIRM. The GIRM only mentions one hymn that should be sung by everyone and that is one sung as a post-Communion reflection. Of course the Eucharistic Prayer acclamations and the dialogue responses should be sung by the entire assembly.

Recently our choir dug up an old Gloria from somewhere (it’s not the MOC but it’s just as bad, if not worse). I want my old “New, Good Shepherd Mass” Gloria back. It’s been the continual musical thread linking all the Anglophone parishes I’ve attended in the past 35 years.

 

[Marysann]

Phemie, and LauraSings, thank you for your responses. Let me explain our situation to you. I attend an English language Mass in a foreign country. We have no choir, or cantor, only an organist. Our regular organist is a good musician and know what he is doing as he was trained by the Oratorians in England. We don’t sing any new Mass settings, only Gregorian chant, and standard hymns. The Eucharist Prayer is almost always said in Latin, since the congregation is an international group. The preaching is always good and very orthodox. Considering what I read on this forum, most readers who attend one of our Masses would think that they had died and gone to Heaven! Many English language Masses here are guitar Masses with abuses such as using old Lucian Deiss antiphons or Christmas carol choruses for the Memorial Acclamation, or they hymn Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God Almighty instead of the Sanctus. These are actually minor annoyances compared to what happens in a lot of places, I realize. While our organist was on vacation, we had a substitute organist who does not have the training or liturgical knowledge of the other guy. When she left out the chant and only played the hymns, I questioned her about it. She said that Father thought that people could pray and meditate better(now English is not this lady’s first language so we might have some translation problems here), if we didn’t sing the chant (we sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Sanctus, and the Agnus Dei). Our regular organist is back, and he plays what he wants unless order to do otherwise so we got our chants back! We want to approach Father with a printed document from the Vatican to show him that we know exactly what we are suppose to be doing. I could make a download a copy, but I felt that a professionally printed document would look better, and save me precious computer paper. This place is really good, we just want it to be great. Since we can sing the Gloria in Latin (people from all over the world know this) we should certainly be able to sing the short responses. By the way I also had a degree in music and have run the music programs for our English Masses in two of the countries in which we have lived so I am familiar with most of the documents, but I certainly could have missed something! Thank you all for your help.

 

[benedictgal]

Marysann, I hear you.

I don’t know if you’ve been able to access the website, but www.paxbooks.com may have some of what you need. It is the Vatican’s official publishing house.

As I said before, you could check wih Amazon.com as they have many international sites (and shipping from Europe to Israel might be cheaper).

Does the Latin Patriarch for Jerusalem not have any information or a library to which you could refer? Just a thought.

 

[Marysann]

Benedictgal, I was able to access Pax Books, but they did not have the document I wanted. Muledog said that he had seen it at the Daughters of St. Paul bookstore so I tried their website, but they did not have it either. I also went to the websites of the US Catholic Bishops and the Vatican. Postage is no problem for us, because we can use APO, the American military post office. I guess I am going to have to give up, and print out Musicam Sacram myself to share with our priest. I would hesitate to bother the Latin Patriarch’s office because they would not have copies of documents in English. Besides they are busy with more important issues such as persecution of Catholics on the West Bank. I have heard something that might be of interest to those interested in the promoting authentic Catholic music in the Church. Rumor has it that all of the churches run by the Franciscans are replacing their organs. Could they be preparing for a visit someday of our Holy Father Pope Benedict?! Maybe they are waking up and “smelling the incense” (a phrase from Father Z’s blog)! Thank you all for your help.