Please help me with something

[stayfa1thful]

First of all, I am not turning away from the Catholic faith, its where I want to be but, I have had strange questions coming into my head. I have tried to ask on the submit a question forums, but both attempts have not been answered. I am aware they are extremely busy. I have talked to friends, but still, no answers.

What about the Catholic Church? We have the Catechism, which is laws written by us, not Him. Why does our faith have so many “man made” rules. A good example is in the Bible, it states we are to eat his body and drink his blood. However, the Catholic Church teaches us we CANT have it unless we take THEIR class. Do you see where I am going with this? Who is a Church, to decide whether or not we are allowed to receive the body of Christ? They teach how important confession is, however I am not allowed to do it, because of their rules.

Here is the thing that got to me this morning

675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the ‘mystery of iniquity’ in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.

That was taken from another post and once again, it glared in my head that we are glorifying God THROUGH the Catholic Church, but the Church dictates how we are “supposed to do things” The whole “glorifies himself in place of God”

More than anything, I want everyone to tell me how stupid and uneducated I am for thinking this and just say “well its right here, it says” I would like to be put in my place so that I can be at peace because from the beginning, I felt God through the Catholic Church more than anything, ever before. However, he reaches people in many denominations. I do NOT want to change, and I will NOT change. However, so many questions that just leave me confused and confusion is one of the devils tools. Can anyone help clear this up for me?

Thank you

 

[Prodigal_Son]

They teach how important confession is, however I am not allowed to do it, because of their rules.

Who told you this? My understanding was that anyone, even non-Christians, may come to confession. By all means, go to confession, right away!

I do NOT want to change, and I will NOT change.

Really? But we all need to constantly be changing, to be changed into the image of God’s Son. Don’t get caught up in the forms of religion. Believe in Jesus, believe in the authority of the Church, and all else will follow.

I don’t understand how the Church glorifies itself in the place of God. The glory is all God’s; if there is anything wrong, we are to blame. You may criticize the Church for making rules, but aren’t rules necessary? We are all children of wrath, the Bible says – do you think we could become mature without rules?

 

[stayfa1thful]

Who told you this? My understanding was that anyone, even non-Christians, may come to confession. By all means, go to confession, right away!

Really? But we all need to constantly be changing, to be changed into the image of God’s Son. Don’t get caught up in the forms of religion. Believe in Jesus, believe in the authority of the Church, and all else will follow.

I don’t understand how the Church glorifies itself in the place of God. The glory is all God’s; if there is anything wrong, we are to blame. You may criticize the Church for making rules, but aren’t rules necessary? We are all children of wrath, the Bible says – do you think we could become mature without rules?

First of all, thank you very much and I will check around more about the confession part. I need to do it so bad I feel, to get rid of my former life.

I understand what you are saying about rules, but who’s rules are they? Thats what I am asking. Why can I not participate in the Eucharist? I will focus on that part, to leave my ignorance out of it. They are the ones who deny me that. Im not mad about it, I just sometimes feel left out as if I am not worthy, because I have not taken some class. That gets to me a bit because why do they think I am not worthy. I am not 100 percent clear on my teachings but Jesus allowed Judas, someone who was going to betray him, to receive his body and blood. Why can I not until the Church says so?

When I say I wont change, I mean faiths. When I walked into a Catholic Church, I knew that is where I was supposed to be. I know it. However, lingering questions are still in my head that are trying to get to me I believe. Its not that I am wrapped up in any denomination, its just that for me, I am home now and I will not leave my home, but I disagree with the colors of the walls, or the type of furniture. Know what I mean?

Think of it like this for a minute:

The Catholic Church makes these “rules”. What if they are not doing the right thing? They have become an organization, which I actually love but what if they are denying some people things they need or misleading them unintentionally. At what point does it become what they want and believe is best, instead of it being what God wants?

As for glorifying the Church instead of God, I may have worded it wrong. Not once have I ever heard a true Catholic glorify anything but God. However, so many believe that the Catholic faith is the one true Church and that they are the way. Maybe I have been over thinking it and my mind needs to be cleared.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I agree that the institutional status of the Church can lead to misunderstanding and error. This is especially true in America right now, where I do believe we have a crisis of unfaithfulness within the Church. In that respect, I want to honor you for your desire to be faithful, despite obstacles.

I don’t have time for a fuller answer right now – my apologies. As far as communion goes, there are some experts on this forum who I hope will know the answer to your question far better than I will. As with any obstacle, or “red tape”, don’t let it get in your way. Share openly and honestly with the leaders at your church that you don’t understand the rationale, and I imagine they will be understanding.

 

[beckycmarie]

Dear stayfa1thful,

It may help to keep in mind that the Catholic Church is the only one founded directly by Jesus Christ. Even the apostles had to be taught for three years before they could receive His Body & Blood!

 

[Kay_Cee]

First of all, I am not turning away from the Catholic faith, its where I want to be but, I have had strange questions coming into my head. I have tried to ask on the submit a question forums, but both attempts have not been answered. I am aware they are extremely busy. I have talked to friends, but still, no answers.

What about the Catholic Church? We have the Catechism, which is laws written by us, not Him. Why does our faith have so many “man made” rules.

When you read the catechism, please pay attention to all the footnotes. I think you’ll be astonished at how much these rules have their basis in scripture.

A good example is in the Bible, it states we are to eat his body and drink his blood. However, the Catholic Church teaches us we CANT have it unless we take THEIR class. Do you see where I am going with this? Who is a Church, to decide whether or not we are allowed to receive the body of Christ? They teach how important confession is, however I am not allowed to do it, because of their rules.

Would you be okay with the Body of Christ telling you that you can’t eat his body unless you take a class?

You seem to have a skewed idea of exactly what the Church is. You seem to think it’s a man-made institution. Well, if you check Colossions 1:24, you’ll see that the Church is the Body of Christ.

Here is the thing that got to me this morning

675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the ‘mystery of iniquity’ in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.

This sounds like mankind glorifying secularism rather than giving the glory to God.

That was taken from another post and once again, it glared in my head that we are glorifying God THROUGH the Catholic Church, but the Church dictates how we are “supposed to do things” The whole “glorifies himself in place of God”

Of course you should glorify God through the Catholic Church, since it is the very Body of Christ.

More than anything, I want everyone to tell me how stupid and uneducated I am for thinking this and just say “well its right here, it says” I would like to be put in my place so that I can be at peace because from the beginning,

It is never stupid to ask a question, nor is it wrong to have doubts.

I felt God through the Catholic Church more than anything, ever before.

Hurray!

However, he reaches people in many denominations.

Which is exactly what the Catholic Church teaches.

I do NOT want to change, and I will NOT change.

By this I assume you mean you do not want to leave the Church. However, we should all desire to change in the respect that we should want God to mold us into saints.

However, so many questions that just leave me confused and confusion is one of the devils tools. Can anyone help clear this up for me?

I hope I have, at least somewhat. Perhaps someone who is better educated than I am can help you understand how the Church is the Body of Christ. I will say, however, that we, as the bride of Christ, are married to Him in a mystical way, and in this marriage we become “one flesh.” See chapter 5 of Ephesians for more on this.

Thank you

You’re welcome!

 

[tee_eff_em]

Who told you this? My understanding was that anyone, even non-Christians, may come to confession.

Who told you this?

While I suppose it is true that “anyone may confess” (how can you stop someone from speaking as they please?), only the baptized may receive the graces of sacramental confession. Baptism is the gateway to all of the other sacraments.

tee

 

[Texas_Roofer]

First of all, I am not turning away from the Catholic faith, its where I want to be but, I have had strange questions coming into my head…
…What about the Catholic Church?

The Catholic church is lead by the holy spirit not men, the Holy Spirit resides in all of us

We have the Catechism, which is laws written by us, not Him.

Catechism is teaching not the rules. It is based on rules but not in and of itself rules

Why does our faith have so many “man made” rules.

man made rules are disciplines

A good example is in the Bible

no the bible is revelation

, it states we are to eat his body and drink his blood. However, the Catholic Church teaches us we CANT have it unless we take THEIR class.

this is to be in communion which is to say “you” are applying proper living standards to yourself

Do you see where I am going with this? Who is a Church, to decide whether or not we are allowed to receive the body of Christ?

if you ask for the body you will receive it, however if you do that under false pretenses it is you not the church in error

They teach how important confession is, however I am not allowed to do it, because of their rules.

Here is the thing that got to me this morning

675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the ‘mystery of iniquity’ in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.

That was taken from another post and once again, it glared in my head that we are glorifying God THROUGH the Catholic Church, but the Church dictates how we are “supposed to do things” The whole “glorifies himself in place of God”

More than anything, I want everyone to tell me how stupid and uneducated I am for thinking this and just say “well its right here, it says” I would like to be put in my place so that I can be at peace because from the beginning, I felt God through the Catholic Church more than anything, ever before. However, he reaches people in many denominations. I do NOT want to change, and I will NOT change. However, so many questions that just leave me confused and confusion is one of the devils tools. Can anyone help clear this up for me?

Thank you

If you do not want to change your decision has been made. Irony no(?) you feel the Holy Spirit through the Church and yet deny the Church is the Holy Spirit.

Hope that answers your questions, it is all up to you

 

[tee_eff_em]

A good example is in the Bible, it states we are to eat his body and drink his blood. However, the Catholic Church teaches us we CANT have it unless we take THEIR class. Do you see where I am going with this? Who is a Church, to decide whether or not we are allowed to receive the body of Christ?

The Bible also states: *For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. *Does not the Church then have a responsibility to administer the sacraments in a worthy manner? The ordinary way in which she does so is by means of catechism classes (but there are extraordinary ways as well).

They teach how important confession is, however I am not allowed to do it, because of their rules.

What “rule” (specifically) is preventing you from the sacrament?

tee

 

[VociMike]

Hello,

There is a very common assumption that God is somehow opposed to rules, but the story of his chosen people, laid out in the Old Testament, clearly disproves that. God’s rules were extremely demanding then, and if anything have been greatly relaxed. But not done away with.

Rules in the Church are for guidance and for obedience, and they are made on the ultimate authority of God.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Who told you this?

I probably read it in a novel of classical literature. In that context, everyone was baptized, so it was just saying that a baptized non-believer can confess. That’s my best guess.

I think most priests would be delighted to see an unbaptized person in confession, though – not to receive the fullness of the sacrament, but to give blessing and guidance. We have a duty as Catholics to be inviting.

 

[stayfa1thful]

Dear stayfa1thful,

It may help to keep in mind that the Catholic Church is the only one founded directly by Jesus Christ. Even the apostles had to be taught for three years before they could receive His Body & Blood!

I never saw it from that perspective, and that makes me happy to hear to be honest. Although I dont fully understand why any institution can deny it, at least it some logic behind it

 

[stayfa1thful]

KayCee

Its not that I believe it is a man made institution, but many things have changed over the past few thousand years and the original teachings have not. As our understanding of the teachings became better translations, it leaves the room for human error. That human error is what I was wondering about, not the Church itself.

I do appreciate the replies

Tee and Prodigal Son

I called a few Churches and yes, I have to have taken the classes or be in the middle of them in order to go to confession. This brings to mind another question, about confession.

Since we must do this through a priest, what happens when someone like myself, finds God but I cannot complete classes and I die say next week. Am I screwed? I have done the best I could, and prayed and confessed to Him myself. Where do I stand?

 

[davidv]

KayCee

Its not that I believe it is a man made institution, but many things have changed over the past few thousand years and the original teachings have not. As our understanding of the teachings became better translations, it leaves the room for human error. That human error is what I was wondering about, not the Church itself.

I do appreciate the replies

If we trust Jesus at His word, no human error will be allowed to destroy the Church by revising the Deposit of Faith.

Tee and Prodigal Son

I called a few Churches and yes, I have to have taken the classes or be in the middle of them in order to go to confession. This brings to mind another question, about confession.

Since we must do this through a priest, what happens when someone like myself, finds God but I cannot complete classes and I die say next week. Am I screwed?

No. If your are contrite and have resolved to go to confession as soon as practically possible, the Church teaches that you can be forgiven without the Sacrament of Confession

I have done the best I could, and prayed and confessed to Him myself. Where do I stand?

You stand closer to God than those who won’t admit their sins.

 

[stayfa1thful]

Texas Roofer

Yes, the Church is led by the Holy Spirit but as we know, sometimes we think God could be talking to us, but its us being tricked into believing its Him when it isnt Him. This is where the human error comes into play, as I mentioned to Kay Cee. Everyone can be tricked, because no one is perfect. Thats why these “rules” or “disciplines” are sometimes things I wonder about.

I do need to read the Catechism before thinking too much into it.

As for receiving the body, I do feel I am ready. I feel that being able to receive this would help me in such a great way, but I will just have to wait. The only thing I am missing is the classes.

I do not deny the Church as the holy spirit, however, its the human error that we all know exists. Im sure everyone who reads this knows that they have received a message, or feeling but it turned out to be false, no matter how “right” it seemed at the time. It is ironic, however I need these types of things answered so I can get resolution and some kind of answer. If I allow evil to let me stay in a state of confusion, he will try to chip away piece after piece until it finds a way to get to me. Thats why I have come to these forums because I have exhausted all means that i know of, other than taking up our priest time for 2-3 hours.

Thank you for your answer

 

[tee_eff_em]

Since we must do this through a priest, what happens when someone like myself, finds God but I cannot complete classes and I die say next week. Am I screwed? I have done the best I could, and prayed and confessed to Him myself. Where do I stand?

Not to dwell on the morbid, but if your death is foreseen, and since you have expressed the desire for them(?), it is quite likely you could receive the sacraments.

Even if your hypothetical death should be sudden: You will stand in the mercy of God, who knows your desire for the Faith and the Sacraments.

tee

 

[stayfa1thful]

Tee

I understand what you are saying about having the right to administer the sacraments.

Your line says

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord

I guess what has bothered me is that people who have no clue what my relationship with God is, is who deems me worth or unworthy. I mean I do get it, I really do. However, it still feels like man is the one who figures out whether I am worthy. If I am unworthy and I take it, then thats something I will have to account for when my time comes. Either way, Im going to wait until I take the classes, but it still doesnt stop the fact that I yearn to be able to take part in it

The “rules” i spoke of is no confession or Eucharist without classes.

 

[maryj]

KayCee

Its not that I believe it is a man made institution, but many things have changed over the past few thousand years and the original teachings have not. As our understanding of the teachings became better translations, it leaves the room for human error. That human error is what I was wondering about, not the Church itself.

I do appreciate the replies

Tee and Prodigal Son

I called a few Churches and yes, I have to have taken the classes or be in the middle of them in order to go to confession. This brings to mind another question, about confession.

Well I’ve been Catholic all my life, and I had to take classes in order to receive the Sacrament of reconcilliation, the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist, the Sacrament of Confirmation and as a matter of fact classes before the Sacrament of Marriage. That took only 23 years to complete, I would say 8-9 months in RCIA would be a lot quicker.

Since we must do this through a priest, what happens when someone like myself, finds God but I cannot complete classes and I die say next week. Am I screwed? I have done the best I could, and prayed and confessed to Him myself. Where do I stand?

 

[maryj]

Well I’m not quite sure how my post got inside your quote, but I think you can figure it out!

 

[maryj]

Well I’ve been Catholic all my life, and I had to take classes in order to receive the Sacrament of reconcilliation, the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist, the Sacrament of Confirmation and as a matter of fact classes before the Sacrament of Marriage. That took only 23 years to complete, I would say 8-9 months in RCIA would be a lot quicker.
There that’s better.