Please help me with the Creed! Resources?

[TheRealJuliane]

I need to find a great explanation of all of the points in the Creed (Apostle’s) that we say in every Mass. I asked my husband if he really believes what he professes to believe, or if he just says it in front of our sons so they will think he’s still a Catholic. He said there are parts of it that he believes, but some parts he can’t.

THE APOSTLE’S CREED
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. **He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; **He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

This descent into Hell - what did Jesus go there for? We never said that in the Nicene Creed, so having it return as we say the Apostles’ Creed is a bit problematic for hubby, I suppose. And he makes fun of that statement because it seems so far-fetched - like, what did Jesus go to Hell for, to have lunch with Satan? Speaking of which, is anyone currently in Hell? In Revelation it says that Satan and his demons WILL BE cast into the lake of fire when Jesus comes again, so obviously they aren’t there yet. So if they aren’t there, who keeps track of all the suffering of anyone who IS there??

And, if Jesus is going to come to judge the living AND the dead, does that mean that the dead are not yet in heaven? How can He judge them twice? We Catholics do not believe in some sort of waiting area, like the Jehovah Witnesses, so what is meant by “judge the living and the dead?” We do believe in “absent from the body, present with the Lord (or in Purgatory)” don’t we? I am pretty sure that’s the case but I didn’t want to inform him wrongly and make things worse.

Any resources to help me out are welcomed. I am not good at apologetics having missed 20+ years of catechism and church. Would “Catholicism for Dummies” work fairly well for these basic questions? I would LOVE to be able to answer my husband’s questions and have him return to the Church!!! Please keep him in your prayers.

Thank you so much for any help you can offer.

 

[1ke]

This descent into Hell - what did Jesus go there for? We never said that in the Nicene Creed, so having it return as we say the Apostles’ Creed is a bit problematic for hubby, I suppose. And he makes fun of that statement because it seems so far-fetched - like, what did Jesus go to Hell for, to have lunch with Satan? Speaking of which, is anyone currently in Hell? In Revelation it says that Satan and his demons WILL BE cast into the lake of fire when Jesus comes again, so obviously they aren’t there yet. So if they aren’t there, who keeps track of all the suffering of anyone who IS there??

The Catechism:

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1R.HTM

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2O.HTM

And, if Jesus is going to come to judge the living AND the dead, does that mean that the dead are not yet in heaven? How can He judge them twice? We Catholics do not believe in some sort of waiting area, like the Jehovah Witnesses, so what is meant by “judge the living and the dead?” We do believe in “absent from the body, present with the Lord (or in Purgatory)” don’t we? I am pretty sure that’s the case but I didn’t want to inform him wrongly and make things worse.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1W.HTM

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2L.HTM

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2P.HTM

Any resources to help me out are welcomed. I am not good at apologetics having missed 20+ years of catechism and church. Would “Catholicism for Dummies” work fairly well for these basic questions? I would LOVE to be able to answer my husband’s questions and have him return to the Church!!! Please keep him in your prayers.

Thank you so much for any help you can offer.

I think that Catholicism for Dummies is a good, basic book.

On the Creed I really like Dr. Marcellino D’Ambrosio’s DVD entitled I Believe. It is excellent, a 4 part explanation of the Creed, although based on the old translation of the Creed. I don’t believe he’s updated it yet. I don’t think it would matter too much as the essentials remain the same. Dr. d’Ambrosio has a lot of great videos, MP3s, etc, at his website www.crossroadsinitiative.com under “Resources”.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Oh geez…

:doh2::blushing:

Now I’m really embarrassed!

It’s in the Catechism???

LOL Never thought to just check with the source!



Thanks though.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Okay, I have read all of the links you sent. But I am still confused! In fact I am MORE confused!

If Jesus is going to raise the dead when he returns, who ARE the dead? I thought we get judged immediately after death, and either go to purgatory or hell, or heaven. So who are these dead in their tombs? Or do we just wait for the coming of Jesus and not get judged? Where does my soul go after I die? Do I get to see Jesus or not?

Who is in hell right now? Are the demons there? Is Satan there? And who did Jesus free when he went there?

 

[Gamera]

The “hell” to which Jesus descended was not the hell of the damned. It was what’s commonly called Abraham’s Bosom, meaning the place where the souls of the just who died before the sacrifice of Christ on the cross were waiting to be able to enter heaven. Note that Jesus told the good thief, “Today you will be with me in paradise,” not “heaven,” – Jesus didn’t ascend to heaven until 40 days after the resurrection. The hell of the damned would hardly be called “paradise.”

Your other questions are mostly answered by the fact that there are two judgments: the individual or particular judgment which each person receives immediately upon death, and the general judgment at the end of time, when those who have been saved will receive glorified bodies.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The “hell” to which Jesus descended was not the hell of the damned. It was what’s commonly called Abraham’s Bosom, meaning the place where the souls of the just who died before the sacrifice of Christ on the cross were waiting to be able to enter heaven. Note that Jesus told the good thief, “Today you will be with me in paradise,” not “heaven,” – Jesus didn’t ascend to heaven until 40 days after the resurrection. The hell of the damned would hardly be called “paradise.”

Your other questions are mostly answered by the fact that there are two judgments: the individual or particular judgment which each person receives immediately upon death, and the general judgment at the end of time, when those who have been saved will receive glorified bodies.

Okay, great. I get the first point. Was that caused by a translation problem? Because he didn’t go down to “Hell,” really, but this other place. Is there any other name for it, besides “Abraham’s Bosom?” I don’t remember hearing any of this anywhere else!

Does this place exist now? And, does Hell (the Hell of the damned) exist now? Since Satan isn’t there, who is? Are demons there?

2 judgments. The people in Heaven and Purgatory will receive glorified bodies then? So we don’t have our glorified bodies in Heaven…we won’t get them until Jesus comes.

What happens if we are still alive when Jesus comes?

 

[adrift]

Okay, great. I get the first point. Was that caused by a translation problem? Because he didn’t go down to “Hell,” really, but this other place. Is there any other name for it, besides “Abraham’s Bosom?” I don’t remember hearing any of this anywhere else!

Does this place exist now? And, does Hell (the Hell of the damned) exist now? Since Satan isn’t there, who is? Are demons there?

2 judgments. The people in Heaven and Purgatory will receive glorified bodies then? So we don’t have our glorified bodies in Heaven…we won’t get them until Jesus comes.

What happens if we are still alive when Jesus comes?

Wow you really make me think about things I have taken for granted.
The Catholic Encylopedia has an article on Limbo which I think answers some of the questions

Late Latin limbus) a word of Teutonic derivation, meaning literally “hem” or “border,” as of a garment, or anything joined on (cf. Italian lembo or English limb).

In theological usage the name is applied to (a) the temporary place or state of the souls of the just who, although purified from sin, were excluded from the beatific vision until Christ’s triumphant ascension into Heaven (the “limbus patrum”); or (b) to the permanent place or state of those unbaptized children and others who, dying without grievous personal sin, are excluded from the beatific vision on account of original sin alone (the “limbus infantium” or “puerorum”).

You might also be interested in this Hell

 

[patrick457]

Okay, great. I get the first point. Was that caused by a translation problem? Because he didn’t go down to “Hell,” really, but this other place. Is there any other name for it, besides “Abraham’s Bosom?” I don’t remember hearing any of this anywhere else!

The word hell originally comes from Proto-Germanic *haljō (“nether world, concealed place”), from Proto-Indo-European *kel- (“to cover, conceal, save”) via Old English hel, hell, helle (“nether world, abode of the dead”) and Middle English helle. Like the Latin infernus (“lower regions”) or the Greek hadēs, it originally did not denote a specific area in the afterlife (specifically the one where the damned are punished) but was a general term for the afterlife or netherworld in general: in this original sense, each and every dead person go to infernus, ‘hell’, the realm of the deceased. Within Catholic theology, this place where the righteous dead were before Christ opened heaven’s gate is usually called, for lack of a better term, limbus patrum (“limbo of the fathers”), Hades, or Sheol (“Pit,” the term for the ancient Israelite netherworld in the older parts of the OT).

Many ancient cultures did not yet have a very complex set of beliefs concerning the afterlife. They believed that when we die, some part of our being goes to the realm of the dead, a place of darkness usually thought to be located beneath the earth (totally not a pleasant place to be in, of course!) and permanently stay there, cut off the land of the living, never to return - save for a few exceptions. Regardless of deeds or station in life, all humans, good or evil, are thought to go down the underworld. For the early Israelites, this was Sheol (the “Pit”); for the Greeks, this was Hades (originally Haidou “[house] of Hades (god of the dead)”); for the Japanese, this was Yomi. We can find this earlier concept in the older parts of the Old Testament.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Wow you really make me think about things I have taken for granted.
The Catholic Encylopedia has an article on Limbo which I think answers some of the questions

You might also be interested in this Hell

Ultimately, the answer is “We don’t really know what happens to us after death.” I know and understand this, but my scientist husband needs more evidence or a better theory than just I am no apologist and since I am able to accept the Creed fully, I have not given as much thought to it as he, a skeptic and perhaps atheist, has. He questions a lot of what is said during Mass. And I am trying to wrap my head around his questions and give the best answer I can. I know it probably won’t suffice. He is very stubborn and he’s also got a grudge against God and the Church b/c of his parents’ divorce. So only the Holy Spirit is going to be able to sway him. But I at least wanted to try and answer these questions about the Creed. I think I’m going to need at least one resource other than the internet, though.

Thanks for the links, they help me.

 

[mackbrislawn]

2 judgments. The people in Heaven and Purgatory will receive glorified bodies then? So we don’t have our glorified bodies in Heaven…we won’t get them until Jesus comes.

What happens if we are still alive when Jesus comes?

No, the resurrection doesn’t occur until the second coming.

In regards to what happens to those still alive at the second coming, Paul answers that question directly at 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Verses 15 to 17 say, “For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.”

Heaven and earth become one. God Himself will dwell among men on earth. Revelation 21:1-4. There shall be a new heaven and a new earth and it is on the new earth we will have our glorified bodies.

 

[R_C]

Ultimately, the answer is “We don’t really know what happens to us after death.”

I am sorry, but we actually know. We know really well. And we have had no doubt about it, for literally almost 2000 years.

Societies and cultures have changed, science has changed, but the Magisterium of the Church has only grown stronger in the divine revelation. Many will reject sacred tradition, now and tomorrow and in the centuries to come, just like they have in the past ones…but the Church, mystical bride of the divine Word, knows and will always share the truth.

“Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth” (blessed pope John Paul II, encyclical Fides et Ratio) To find God, we cannot shut down faith. We need both wings to fly through the wind of the Holy Spirit…