Please help me... :(

[paarsurrey]

Mormons are not Christians. It doesn’t matter how many times they repeat the claim… by definition there is just no way they can be considered Christian.

Hi
I know that the Catholics don’t cosider Mormons and JWs as Christians, but who cares? They would retort and say that the Catholics are not Christians. Who would decide who is a Christian and who is not? Everybody makes claims, so do they.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

 

[exoflare]

Hi
I know that the Catholics don’t cosider Mormons and JWs as Christians, but who cares? They would retort and say that the Catholics are not Christians. Who would decide who is a Christian and who is not? Everybody makes claims, so do they.

It’s not a matter of subjective consideration… they are NOT Christians whether they (or you) like it or not. They do not base their faith on a single word Jesus or those he chose to succeed him in the Church taught. It all revolves around the words of Joseph Smith for them… simple enough.

 

[The_Truthinator]

Great to see you here! And your interest in the Faith! I’m not Catholic (just Christian) but I just wanted to say it’s amazing to see someone who sees so clearly God working in his Church. Hey, if you are looking for a good translation, the New Living Translation is great! Pretty accurate to the original and easy, easy stuff to read. What’s more, if you want to become a member of the Catholic Church, they DO have a Catholic edition, and you could probably find one at a Books-A-Million if any are around you … And yes, talk to someone from a local church (Catholic or Protestant), for they will, God willing, point you in the right direction.

Shalom!

 

[CCM08]

Members of the “Nation of Islam” profess to be Muslims and yet the practice and doctrines of the NoI would not be recongized any actual Muslim scholar or cleric. Equally so, the Mormon religion professes Christianity, and even uses some Christian terms but in ways that are completely alien to Christianity.

I was also raised Mormon, though my family was inactive at periods for various reasons. I converted to Orthodoxy, best thing that ever happened. Your best option is to find a priest who can answer questions and suggest reading materials. Catholic answers also has material (and books for sale) writen by former Mormons.

 

[PurpleViolets]

Hi! I can’t really help you too much with becoming Catholic, but I am a former Mormon too.

I also couldn’t shake that feeling that something is VERY wrong with that church. It only gets worse and weirder as you get older too, with pressures for missions, and early temple marriage and kids, and etc. They constantly want something from you, without giving much if anything back.

You are still young, and so lucky you came to this realization so early. I know lots of people who are also former Mormons and ignored that inner voice until they were much older and it was that much harder to follow their conscience and get out when they had spouses and children that were still involved.

Good luck on your journey!

I do agree with the rest of the posters I’ve read in this thread as well. Just go to talk to a priest. They don’t bite, and would be happy to help you and explain everything.

 

[Erich]

Hi
Do the Mormons say they are not Christians? Every one has to proclaim his faith himself; not others say about him; that is the norm.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

Not to hijack this thread, but…

I believe in an eternal God who made all things in heaven and on earth and under the earth. I believe that the books of the Law of Moses (Torah), the Prophets (Neviim), and the Writings (Ketuvim) are inspired Scripture. I believe that God knows our thoughts, sees our deeds, and will reward the good and punish the wicked.

All of this makes my religion near to the Jewish one… so does that make me Jewish? No, because I also believe in a trinitarian God, and I believe that the Messiah has already come (and will come again).

Just as Catholicism (for centuries the only Christianity) added to Judaism making it “no longer Jewish,” Mormonism added to Christianity making it “no longer Christian.”

Mormonism saying it’s a Christian denomination is like Catholicism saying it’s a Jewish sect (alongside Orthodox-, Conservative-, or Reform Judaism). But of course, observant Jews are going to be much better judges of “Jewishness” than any/all outsiders.

 

[paarsurrey]

Not to hijack this thread, but…

I believe in an eternal God who made all things in heaven and on earth and under the earth. I believe that the books of the Law of Moses (Torah), the Prophets (Neviim), and the Writings (Ketuvim) are inspired Scripture. I believe that God knows our thoughts, sees our deeds, and will reward the good and punish the wicked.
No, because I also believe in a trinitarian God, and I believe that the Messiah has already come (and will come again).

Hi
To me, your standpoint is irrational, illogical and inconsistent. As per Martin Luther’s Small Catechism, which is said to be also acceptable to Catholics:

1. God the Father is eternal (Ps. 90:1-2),
2. Son- is also eternal,
3. Spirit is also eternal
   The ChristianGod cannot be eternal; since it is a cardinal belief (imported by Paul ,an enemy of Jesus, from Rome) of my Christian friends that Jesus died on Cross, at least for three days and three nights Jesus remained dead. So the Christians (trul speaking the Pauline) mythology makes a hole in the eternity of Jesus, which further results into a hole in the eternity of ChristianGod at large if my friends realize. This is no doubt a blemish; yet it is there and damages the eternity of ChristianGod. This needs to be improved by my Christian friends. May GodAllahYHWH bless you all and let you all resolve this blemish if you understand it, otherwise no compulsion. I respect your faith.
   Thanks
   I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

 

[Erich]

To me, your standpoint is irrational, illogical and inconsistent. … I respect your faith.

From The Eternal Sonship of Christ:

Some Evangelicals, such as John MacArthur, J. Oliver Buswell, and the late Walter Martin, have been abandoning the Trinitarian faith as defined by the First Council of Nicaea (A.D. 325). Their abandonment of orthodox Trinitarianism consists in denying the eternal Sonship of Christ, the doctrine that the second person of the Trinity was the Son of God from all eternity. Instead, they claim that the second person of the Trinity only became the Son of God at his incarnation. Apart from the incarnation he was still God, but not the Son, just the second Person.

This teaching destroys the internal relationships within the Trinity, because if the Son was not eternally begotten by the Father then neither did the Spirit eternally proceed from the Father through the Son. It also destroys the Fatherhood of the first person, since without a Son there is no Father. Thus the fundamental familial relations among the persons of the Godhead are destroyed and replaced by mere social relationships, a bare existence of three persons in the Godhead. Prior to the incarnation, there is no longer the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but simply Number One, Number Two, and Number Three—the numbers themselves being an arbitrary designation.

The Church Fathers who wrote the creeds had a different view. They recognized that the Bible depicts the Son as having his identity as the Son before his incarnation. In 1 John 4:9 we read, that “the love of God was made manifest among us [in] that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.” Thus, the second person of the Trinity was already the Son when he was sent into the world.

The same truth is taught under a different analogy in John 1:1,14 where we read, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . . . And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” Here the Word (i.e., the second person of the Trinity) is pictured as having his identity as the Word from all eternity. Thus, from all eternity the Word of God proceeded from God, just as speech proceeds from a speaker; similarly, a Son proceeds from his Father. Under both analogies, whether as the Son of God or the Word of God, the second person of the Trinity is depicted as eternally proceeding from the first person of the Trinity.

Also check out the following articles which should help bridge the gaps:
The Divinity of Christ
Filioque
God in Three Persons
The Trinity

 

[Erich]

paarsurrey:

I know that the Catholics don’t cosider Mormons and JWs as Christians, but who cares?

Catholics aren’t the only Christians who don’t consider Mormons and JWs Christian. But I would say the Mormons and JWs themselves care about being considered Christian, because that’s what gives them an air of respectability.

paarsurrey:

They would retort and say that the Catholics are not Christians. Who would decide who is a Christian and who is not? Everybody makes claims, so do they.

Not knowing much about Ahmadis I checked Wikipedia. It would appear that Ahmadis are the Muslim equivalent of Mormons:

The Ahmadi version of Islam has been controversial to mainstream Muslims since its birth. Most Muslims have not accepted Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s claims and some do not consider Ahmadis to be Muslims at all, citing, in particular, the Ahmadiyya view on the finality of Muhammad, ascension and return of Jesus, and concept of Jihad.[2] The Ahmadis however argue that their beliefs are in accordance with Islam,[3][4] and using arguments from the Qur’an, Hadith and opinion of Islamic jurists, challenge the contention of the groups calling them non-Muslims.[5]

So, it does not surprise me that you would consider Mormonism (and perhaps also JWism) as Christian, just as you might agree with the statement that the Ahmadiyya Movement “represents the latter day renaissance of the religion of Islam.”

Supposing, for the sake of this discussion, that Ahmadis are 100% correct, doesn’t that imply that mainstream Muslims aren’t really “fully Muslim”? Who decides who is a Muslim and who is not?

paarsurrey:

This is no doubt a blemish; yet it is there

Indeed!

The original poster asked us to “please write back and let me know the easiest ways to get started on learning more and more about this faith so eventually I can get baptize and raise my children in this faith.” I would recommend An Interactive Detective Story as a guide to determining the true Church from available information.

 

[Hellisreal]

I am glad the Holy Spirit is waking you up and making you ask some tough questions.

Keep praying, and read John Paul’s Theology of the Body.

You wont want to miss that one.

 

[paarsurrey]

Supposing, for the sake of this discussion, that Ahmadis are 100% correct, doesn’t that imply that mainstream Muslims aren’t really “fully Muslim”? Who decides who is a Muslim and who is not?

Hi
For secular purposes anybody who says he belongs to such faith/denomination/religion would be considered as such.
For religious purposes we won’t deny a right one’s is entiltled to and would try to make such a person a better Christian, or a better Muslim etc, etc and would leave the matter to GodAllahYHWH to decide as he is the best Judge, we won’t humiliate such person as that would be counterproductive.We will respect everyhuman being to whatever race,colour,religion one belongs to, even atheists/agnostics would be respected.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

 

[The_Truthinator]

GodAllahYHWH

“Allah” is an Arabic word used to denote the Divinity, yet primarily associated with the god of the Qur’an. YHWH is the God of the Old and New Covenant books, the Father of our Lord. “God” is simply a generic English term that could refer to any number of deities, based on your own personal preferances.

Should you not specify, according to your beliefs–or better yet, according to Truth? I can tell you now, you cannnot serve both YHWH and Allah …

 

[paarsurrey]

“Allah” is an Arabic word used to denote the Divinity, yet primarily associated with the god of the Qur’an. YHWH is the God of the Old and New Covenant books, the Father of our Lord. “God” is simply a generic English term that could refer to any number of deities, based on your own personal preferances.
Should you not specify, according to your beliefs–or better yet, according to Truth? I can tell you now, you cannnot serve both YHWH and Allah …

Hi
You see a miracle; I serve GodAllahYHWHAhuraMazdaParmesherWaheguru etc , etc, …
all denoting definitely only ONENESS of God.
The Creator of this Universe is only one, so these are names revealed by GodAllahYHWH to different nations/races speaking different languages, meaning the same.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

 

[Jaypeeto4]

To the Ahmadi,
you seem like a very kind soul.
But you are mistaken that all religions are true.
You see, logically, that simply cannot be.
The different religions teach doctrines which contradict each other. Two contradictory teachings cannot BOTH be true.
For example, the Christians believe and teach that Jesus is God the Son of God. The Muslims, by contrast, teach that God DOES NOT HAVE A SON and that Jesus is just a Prophet.
Both beliefs cannot be correct because they totally contradict each other.
God bless you,
Jaypeeto4

 

[The_Truthinator]

You see a miracle; I serve GodAllahYHWHAhuraMazdaParmesherWaheguru etc , etc, …

You seem, then, to mistake “YHWH” for “El.” YHWH is not a generic term, like El, Allah, or God; it is a personal Name. I reiterate, you cannot serve Allah (the god of the Qur’an, that is) and YHWH (the God who reveals himself through his Son and his Covenants) simultaneously.

You might reconsider you word choice, as it seems to be misleading in this way.

Shalom.

 

[paarsurrey]

You seem, then, to mistake “YHWH” for “El.” YHWH is not a generic term, like El, Allah, or God; it is a personal Name. I reiterate, you cannot serve Allah (the god of the Qur’an, that is) and YHWH (the God who reveals himself through his Son and his Covenants) simultaneously.
You might reconsider you word choice, as it seems to be misleading in this way.
Shalom.

Hi
Thanks for your advice though.It is the same.
By the way ; what is your religions/denimination/faith?
Thanks again
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

 

[LittleDeb]

**Im 17 years old, and have been born into the mormon religion. Growing up I have always had this weird feeling about the church, and now that im old its getting worse. I’ve grown to become very dissapointed in the way this religion has handled situations, and just the religion in general that I dont even want to consider myself a mormon. Lately I’ve been very interested in the catholic faith, but im very confused on where to get started. Im very serious about changing my faiths, I believe it will make me not only a better person, but a happier person. Please if you read this will you please wreite back and let me know the easiest ways to get started on learning more and more about this faith so eventually I can get baptize and raise my children in this faith… Thank you and God bless. **

Yes seek out a priest. And to add to what others here have said…If you decide to leave the LDS church do so on doctrine. Do not let members actions drive you out, otherwise you might suffer the same problem as a Catholic. The members of both groups can behave sinfully. Don’t let that be a deciding factor.

Make sure you know which LDS doctrines you disagree with. You will find the Truth of each of those doctrines in the Catholic Church. If there is a doctrine in the LDS church that is True, you will find that Truth in the Catholic Church also. (An all male priesthood is one that comes to mind.) But, in the Catholic Church you will find the reason for it is different than the “men are higher” view of the LDS church.

The shorter answer: Know what you are leaving. Know what the LDS church actually teaches. Leave behind untruth for Truth. Don’t leave in confusion.

God bless you in your journey home to the Catholic Church.

 

[The_Truthinator]

Thanks for your advice though.It is the same.
By the way ; what is your religions/denimination/faith?
Thanks again

The same? You argue most vehemently against certain aspects of the Christian faith, against YHWH himself quite often, and yet to you it is “the same”? I must admit, I am a little perplexed at where you are coming from, though I know the gist of the Ahmadi faith system.

I am a follower of Christ, by the way.

Of course!

Peace, friend.