Please Help! Protestant Church Problems?

[bc96christian]

Hello. This is my first post on this forum so I hope I am doing it right. I am a teen and currently attend a want-to-be mega-church nondenominational Protestant congregation, and for the past few years I have grown to dislike it very much. I love God and everything, but feel like the church I am in has lots of problems (my parents have noticed these problems too).

Just to name a couple issues, services are very self-centered, money-hungry, etc. The church just spend approx. 18 million on renovating the building, adding a church cafe, things like that. Sermons are never challenging or faith-centered in any way. Many people treat our church as some sort of social club. There a whole lot of theological issues I have come across too, but I won’t get too deep into that.

I was wondering if anybody could recommend me some books on the problems of the modern church or of nondenominational/protestant congregations in general? I have been really studying theology a lot for the past couple of years and feel my faith growing beyond the type of church I am in now.

Any advice would also be greatly appreciated. Does attending a liturgical style service eliminate these problems or is most of Protestantism generally this way? Or should I just ignore these problems? If you have any advice or book recommendations, please help, thanks .

 

[DavidFilmer]

I think non-doms are generally more likely to be as you describe. Protestants who have a more liturgical framework (such as Methodists and Lutherans) have far less of this type of problem.

I attended a non-dom service in Charlotte with a coworker who was a member there. It was basically one long sermon (mostly about the evils of astrology) followed by a collection that lasted 40 minutes (really). There was the big lead-up to the collection, and the pastor made a show of getting out his checkbook and writing a check, and a little while later looking back at it and realized it was too small, so he tore it up and wrote another, all the while telling us why he had to write a bigger check. The collection was taken (using KFC chicken buckets, for some reason). When the buckets were presented to the pastor, he looked in them and declared it was not enough, and pass the buckets around again! And he didn’t want to hear the collection this time (meaning he wanted bills, not coins). And, I’m thinking, “do they do this every Sunday?”

Liturgy certainly reduces opportunity for trouble. I was talking about church with a non-dom friend; he didn’t see how Catholics could to to Mass week after week and everything is pretty much identical. He thought it would be terribly dull.

A little while later, he complained about his own church. The pastor is a big fan of our local basketball team (the Trail Blazers), has season tickets, etc. A big game was coming, and he led the congregation in a long prayer for the Blazers. My friend (rightly) found this highly inappropriate. I pointed out that there would be little opportunity for such abuse within a Catholic Mass, and he had to concede that I had a point. Though, I suppose, a priest could use his homily to promote his team…

 

[Ad_Orientem]

Welcome to the forum, bc96!

I recommend the following books:

The Spirit of the Liturgy by Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI (then Cardinal Ratzinger)

By What Authority? An Evangelical Discovers Catholic Tradition by Mark P. Shea

You may also want to check out the latter’s website.

Let us know if you have any specific questions about Catholicism.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

The collection was taken (using KFC chicken buckets, for some reason). When the buckets were presented to the pastor, he looked in them and declared it was not enough, and pass the buckets around again!

LOL!

 

[Jon_S_1]

Hello. This is my first post on this forum so I hope I am doing it right. I am a teen and currently attend a want-to-be mega-church nondenominational Protestant congregation, and for the past few years I have grown to dislike it very much. I love God and everything, but feel like the church I am in has lots of problems (my parents have noticed these problems too).

Just to name a couple issues, services are very self-centered, money-hungry, etc. The church just spend approx. 18 million on renovating the building, adding a church cafe, things like that. Sermons are never challenging or faith-centered in any way. Many people treat our church as some sort of social club. There a whole lot of theological issues I have come across too, but I won’t get too deep into that.

I was wondering if anybody could recommend me some books on the problems of the modern church or of nondenominational/protestant congregations in general? I have been really studying theology a lot for the past couple of years and feel my faith growing beyond the type of church I am in now.

Any advice would also be greatly appreciated. Does attending a liturgical style service eliminate these problems or is most of Protestantism generally this way? Or should I just ignore these problems? If you have any advice or book recommendations, please help, thanks .

This is what happens when you trade the Church Authority, for the authority of a man.

This is what happens when you trade liturgy and true worship, for Entertainment.

I was in an Evangelical Church, they were about growth and making money, near monthly sermons on tithing and of course all the multi million dollar renovations that “The Holy Spirit called them to do”

Meanwhile., the homeless in the surrounding neighborhoods are ignored.

I would recommend “Bad Religion; How we became a nation of heretics” by Ross Douthat

I would also recommend exploring the Catholic Faith, Just go to Sunday mass one day, what do you have to lose.

I went for the first time for a philosophy of religion class I had to visit another religion beside my own and I was so moved and so impressed and humbled.

The service was about God

No showy rock band

No trendy Coffee Shops

No big screen tv’s

No Dynamic Pastor saying look at me

Just a humble reflection on myself before God. A chance to acknowledge my sin, say thanks for his redemption and stand in communion with other believers in true worship.

Prayers for you!

 

[ClearWater]

hear

the collection this time (meaning he wanted bills, not coins). And, I’m thinking, “do they do this every Sunday?”

…

lol

I once sent my brother a birthday card which made fun of a bunch of religions, in the form of quotes about grass. One faith’s motto would be, “the grass is always greener on the other side” (heaven). Another faith’s motto would be, “send us your Green”!

It must have been one of those “send us your Green” churches!

 

[JerryZ]

Hello. This is my first post on this forum so I hope I am doing it right. I am a teen and currently attend a want-to-be mega-church nondenominational Protestant congregation, and for the past few years I have grown to dislike it very much. I love God and everything, but feel like the church I am in has lots of problems (my parents have noticed these problems too).

Just to name a couple issues, services are very self-centered, money-hungry, etc. The church just spend approx. 18 million on renovating the building, adding a church cafe, things like that. Sermons are never challenging or faith-centered in any way. Many people treat our church as some sort of social club. There a whole lot of theological issues I have come across too, but I won’t get too deep into that.

I was wondering if anybody could recommend me some books on the problems of the modern church or of nondenominational/protestant congregations in general? I have been really studying theology a lot for the past couple of years and feel my faith growing beyond the type of church I am in now.

Any advice would also be greatly appreciated. Does attending a liturgical style service eliminate these problems or is most of Protestantism generally this way? Or should I just ignore these problems? If you have any advice or book recommendations, please help, thanks .

Is not that the really important stuff?
After all we are ONLY speaking about the true way to find the narrow path.
As others suggested I would encourage you to explore the Catholic faith.
2000 years of endurance must mean something don’t you think?
May the Holy Spirit help you find the truth.

–

 

[RedFox0456]

I couldn’t give you any books to read on that subject in particular. If you are looking for some good reading on faith in general, I like Life of the Beloved by Henri Nouwen. It steers clear of discussing specific denominations and is more for people who are finding new interest in, or struggling with, faith. I think it is on Amazon for about $12 new.

 

[ClearWater]

What concerns me about non-denominational faiths is it’s not clear to me what they DO believe. What do they actually believe?

With the Catholic Church, we say the creed every Sunday, and our beliefs are not the same as other churches, therefore not interchangeable. We state a summary of the highlights of our faith every Sunday. We KNOW what we believe.

I have a family member, and her friend, same church, can go to different churches. Assembly of God…or Pentecostal…doesn’t make any difference which…though the beliefs are different!

Another family member can go to whichever church as long as “God is being worshipped”.
So, sometimes, she’d come with us to the Catholic Church while visiting or go to another just as easily.

I also went with her to different churches. We once went together to a Baptist Church. Another time to a Born-again church.

For a time, this appealed to me, but then later, it didn’t. I wanted to know what I believed.

I also saw some of the things you talked about and didn’t like in those. What I eventually did after many years is return to my original…Catholic…Church! It’s the last thing I thought I’d do, but it’s the only thing at that point that made any sense to me.

I came to appreciate ALL of the Catholic Church! So, after years of switching around a ton of churches, I came back to start! People looked at my life and thought it was even a little funny!

Had you ever thought to go to a Catholic Church, just once, to see if it could be more like what you are looking for?

 

[Wargoski]

I think non-doms are generally more likely to be as you describe. Protestants who have a more liturgical framework (such as Methodists and Lutherans) have far less of this type of problem.

I attended a non-dom service in Charlotte with a coworker who was a member there. It was basically one long sermon (mostly about the evils of astrology) followed by a collection that lasted 40 minutes (really). There was the big lead-up to the collection, and the pastor made a show of getting out his checkbook and writing a check, and a little while later looking back at it and realized it was too small, so he tore it up and wrote another, all the while telling us why he had to write a bigger check. The collection was taken (using KFC chicken buckets, for some reason). When the buckets were presented to the pastor, he looked in them and declared it was not enough, and pass the buckets around again! And he didn’t want to hear the collection this time (meaning he wanted bills, not coins). And, I’m thinking, “do they do this every Sunday?”

Liturgy certainly reduces opportunity for trouble. I was talking about church with a non-dom friend; he didn’t see how Catholics could to to Mass week after week and everything is pretty much identical. He thought it would be terribly dull.

A little while later, he complained about his own church. The pastor is a big fan of our local basketball team (the Trail Blazers), has season tickets, etc. A big game was coming, and he led the congregation in a long prayer for the Blazers. My friend (rightly) found this highly inappropriate. I pointed out that there would be little opportunity for such abuse within a Catholic Mass, and he had to concede that I had a point. Though, I suppose, a priest could use his homily to promote his team…

Your post has shocked me so much that it took a minute to even think of something to say. I was just so astonished that a Church would actually do something like this.

I believe that giving what you can is what is important. At times in my life i have had no income but the pennies in my pocket. I would give them knowing in my heart that is what i could give. I never got stares or ever ridiculed in the Church (Catholic). This makes me just as strong as ever to know I am in the right place.

Thank You and sorry this my post was a little off topic.
Andrew

 

[Jon_S_1]

What concerns me about non-denominational faiths is it’s not clear to me what they DO believe. What do they actually believe?

With the Catholic Church, we say the creed every Sunday, and our beliefs are not the same as other churches, therefore not interchangeable. We state a summary of the highlights of our faith every Sunday. We KNOW what we believe.

I have a family member, and her friend, same church, can go to different churches. Assembly of God…or Pentecostal…doesn’t make any difference which…though the beliefs are different!

Another family member can go to whichever church as long as “God is being worshipped”.
So, sometimes, she’d come with us to the Catholic Church while visiting or go to another just as easily.

I also went with her to different churches. We once went together to a Baptist Church. Another time to a Born-again church.

For a time, this appealed to me, but then later, it didn’t. I wanted to know what I believed.

I also saw some of the things you talked about and didn’t like in those. What I eventually did after many years is return to my original…Catholic…Church! It’s the last thing I thought I’d do, but it’s the only thing at that point that made any sense to me.

I came to appreciate ALL of the Catholic Church! So, after years of switching around a ton of churches, I came back to start! People looked at my life and thought it was even a little funny!

Had you ever thought to go to a Catholic Church, just once, to see if it could be more like what you are looking for?

It really hit home for me when I went to multiple pastors in my church regarding a doctrinal issue in my marriage and we got a different answer from all of them.

What?

Thank God for the Catholic Church!

 

[Khalid]

I need to have an answer to one or two questions before I can begin to address the other questions in your post:

Is the church you currently attend a “Word-Faith” (name it and claim it, e.g. Prayer of Jabez) denomination? Is it Pentecostal/charismatic?

 

[DavidFilmer]

Your post has shocked me so much that it took a minute to even think of something to say.

Yeah, I know what you mean. You should have BEEN THERE! The excitement level was off-the-scale. After the pastor finally called the congregation to order, a fella three rows behind me (I was roughly in the middle of the crowd) jumped up on his folding chair and shouted “ALL-LEE-LUU-UIA” at the top of his lungs, which resulted in another five minutes of uproar, despite the pastor’s repeated attempts to call the assembly to order.

Imagine if a typical Catholic congregation had even a tenth of that enthusiasm!

As a reciprocal gesture, I invited my coworker to attend a “Catholic Service” with me. Normally, this would be a problem for him, because his wanna-be mega-church had only one Sunday service. But it happened to be during Lent, and my Parish offered daily Stations of the Cross, and he came with me for a Thursday evening rite. There is NO homily/sermon. There is NO collection. There is ONLY a short Office at the beginning and end of the rite, and mostly the procession around the memorials of Our Lord’s suffering.

I think my coworker was more astonished by our Stations of the Cross than I was by his Sunday service.

I believe that giving what you can is what is important. At times in my life i have had no income but the pennies in my pocket. I would give them knowing in my heart that is what i could give. I never got stares or ever ridiculed in the Church (Catholic).

You remind me of Our Lord’s teaching about the “widow’s mite” (a small sum offered by a person in poverty, which was far greater than the offerings of the excess of rich people).

But, although I am not a poor person, I have not put anything into a Catholic offering basket for many years. The basket flies past me and my family without any (name removed by moderator)ut. That’s because I have made my contribution electronically these past ten or so years ago. For many years, I relied on my bank’s ability to do electronic payment. Now, my Parish can accept direct payment. I think that such electronic donations are now far more commonplace, but even when they were uncommon, I never had anyone accuse me in any way (by stare, or body language, etc) of any impropriety by bypassing the collection basket.

Even in older times, some people contributed monthly or even annually, depending on how they received their income. I have heard Catholics complain about a great many things, but contributions have never been mentioned.

 

[Misplaced_Book]

Hello. This is my first post on this forum so I hope I am doing it right. I am a teen and currently attend a want-to-be mega-church nondenominational Protestant congregation, and for the past few years I have grown to dislike it very much. I love God and everything, but feel like the church I am in has lots of problems (my parents have noticed these problems too).

Just to name a couple issues, services are very self-centered, money-hungry, etc. The church just spend approx. 18 million on renovating the building, adding a church cafe, things like that. Sermons are never challenging or faith-centered in any way. Many people treat our church as some sort of social club. There a whole lot of theological issues I have come across too, but I won’t get too deep into that.

I was wondering if anybody could recommend me some books on the problems of the modern church or of nondenominational/protestant congregations in general? I have been really studying theology a lot for the past couple of years and feel my faith growing beyond the type of church I am in now.

Any advice would also be greatly appreciated. Does attending a liturgical style service eliminate these problems or is most of Protestantism generally this way? Or should I just ignore these problems? If you have any advice or book recommendations, please help, thanks .

The Liturgy certainly doesn’t lend itself to Shenanigans, that is certain. BUT, there will always be “problems” in any place that you go.

Where are your explorations leading you? Do you know a mature Christian in your congregation or elsewhere that could perhaps help guide you and put things in context? It is easy to become prideful, without realizing it. That is the danger I would caution you about.

Don’t take my word for it, read and PRAY.

 

[steve_b]

Hello. This is my first post on this forum so I hope I am doing it right. I am a teen and currently attend a want-to-be mega-church nondenominational Protestant congregation, and for the past few years I have grown to dislike it very much. I love God and everything, but feel like the church I am in has lots of problems (my parents have noticed these problems too).

Just to name a couple issues, services are very self-centered, money-hungry, etc. The church just spend approx. 18 million on renovating the building, adding a church cafe, things like that. Sermons are never challenging or faith-centered in any way. Many people treat our church as some sort of social club. There a whole lot of theological issues I have come across too, but I won’t get too deep into that.

I was wondering if anybody could recommend me some books on the problems of the modern church or of nondenominational/protestant congregations in general? I have been really studying theology a lot for the past couple of years and feel my faith growing beyond the type of church I am in now.

Any advice would also be greatly appreciated. Does attending a liturgical style service eliminate these problems or is most of Protestantism generally this way? Or should I just ignore these problems? If you have any advice or book recommendations, please help, thanks .

Why not investigate the Church Jesus established,… the Catholic Church. That will fix the problem

 

[bc96christian]

Thank you everybody for your replies! To Khalid: No, my church is not that kind of church; there is no dancing, no speaking in tongues, no people screaming “hallelujah” or anything like that.

Thank you for replying everybody. I might be attending a Catholic mass this weekend, not sure yet though. I really appreciate everybody’s efforts to help out and thanks for your advice

 

[Wargoski]

Yeah, I know what you mean. You should have BEEN THERE! The excitement level was off-the-scale. After the pastor finally called the congregation to order, a fella three rows behind me (I was roughly in the middle of the crowd) jumped up on his folding chair and shouted “ALL-LEE-LUU-UIA” at the top of his lungs, which resulted in another five minutes of uproar, despite the pastor’s repeated attempts to call the assembly to order.

Imagine if a typical Catholic congregation had even a tenth of that enthusiasm!

As a reciprocal gesture, I invited my coworker to attend a “Catholic Service” with me. Normally, this would be a problem for him, because his wanna-be mega-church had only one Sunday service. But it happened to be during Lent, and my Parish offered daily Stations of the Cross, and he came with me for a Thursday evening rite. There is NO homily/sermon. There is NO collection. There is ONLY a short Office at the beginning and end of the rite, and mostly the procession around the memorials of Our Lord’s suffering.

I think my coworker was more astonished by our Stations of the Cross than I was by his Sunday service.

You remind me of Our Lord’s teaching about the “widow’s mite” (a small sum offered by a person in poverty, which was far greater than the offerings of the excess of rich people).

But, although I am not a poor person, I have not put anything into a Catholic offering basket for many years. The basket flies past me and my family without any (name removed by moderator)ut. That’s because I have made my contribution electronically these past ten or so years ago. For many years, I relied on my bank’s ability to do electronic payment. Now, my Parish can accept direct payment. I think that such electronic donations are now far more commonplace, but even when they were uncommon, I never had anyone accuse me in any way (by stare, or body language, etc) of any impropriety by bypassing the collection basket.

Even in older times, some people contributed monthly or even annually, depending on how they received their income. I have heard Catholics complain about a great many things, but contributions have never been mentioned.

I am still like wow lol. Thank you for your comment you are very right about what u can give.

Thank you for sharing such a funny story with us. I have had a few Church Services I went to and were like wow. I went to a LDS Testimony meeting and it seemed like everyone was trying to prove they believed the church was true and that was like the extent of that meeting (besides there 2 hour service in different places afterwards). I am sure there sacrament meetings are different at times but I cant believe a whole meeting would be confessing faith… its wonderful but it looks like there just trying to prove something maybe its just me.

Another Non-Denm church I went to was filled with rock music and a short i mean short sermon (5-10 mins) it was alot of fun to go to for some reason but I think it was more of a concert then a Church Meeting

Thank you again

 

[minkymurph]

Hello. This is my first post on this forum so I hope I am doing it right. I am a teen and currently attend a want-to-be mega-church nondenominational Protestant congregation, and for the past few years I have grown to dislike it very much. I love God and everything, but feel like the church I am in has lots of problems (my parents have noticed these problems too).

Just to name a couple issues, services are very self-centered, money-hungry, etc. The church just spend approx. 18 million on renovating the building, adding a church cafe, things like that. Sermons are never challenging or faith-centered in any way. Many people treat our church as some sort of social club. There a whole lot of theological issues I have come across too, but I won’t get too deep into that.

I was wondering if anybody could recommend me some books on the problems of the modern church or of nondenominational/protestant congregations in general? I have been really studying theology a lot for the past couple of years and feel my faith growing beyond the type of church I am in now.

Any advice would also be greatly appreciated. Does attending a liturgical style service eliminate these problems or is most of Protestantism generally this way? Or should I just ignore these problems? If you have any advice or book recommendations, please help, thanks .

I would not say I am the best person to give you advice. If I was to give you advice, I would say forget the books. The reason is you will never find the perfect religion, in that you will never find one that satisfies you completely.

The focus of the Catholic faith is the Incarnation and the Sacraments. Such things cannot be learned or fully appreciated from a book. You need to be engaged. But I appreciate how you feel as I am a convert, and it is a difficult station.a
Forget books. That is not to say books have no value, and certainly read them. But, a book has it’s limitations. If you are convinced by and argument in book you can equally be convinced by a book that presents a better argument.

Don’t be convinced by a book alone. On this issue, go with your heart. Prayerfully discern what God is calling you to. Act on that. Attend Mass. It doesn’t matter if you can’t participate. You will know by going to Mass if you want to be part of it.

 

[InternetWoman]

You might enjoy reading a book by Thomas Howard. It is called “Evangelical is Not Enough: Worship of God in Liturgy and Sacraments.” Howard was a evangelical who converted to Catholicism. His denomination did not have liturgy and this book talks about his discovery of the Catholic Mass and sacraments. Howard makes this a very interesting and enjoyable book.

 

[catholictiger]

Hello. This is my first post on this forum so I hope I am doing it right. I am a teen and currently attend a want-to-be mega-church nondenominational Protestant congregation, and for the past few years I have grown to dislike it very much. I love God and everything, but feel like the church I am in has lots of problems (my parents have noticed these problems too).

Just to name a couple issues, services are very self-centered, money-hungry, etc. The church just spend approx. 18 million on renovating the building, adding a church cafe, things like that. Sermons are never challenging or faith-centered in any way. Many people treat our church as some sort of social club. There a whole lot of theological issues I have come across too, but I won’t get too deep into that.

I was wondering if anybody could recommend me some books on the problems of the modern church or of nondenominational/protestant congregations in general? I have been really studying theology a lot for the past couple of years and feel my faith growing beyond the type of church I am in now.

Any advice would also be greatly appreciated. Does attending a liturgical style service eliminate these problems or is most of Protestantism generally this way? Or should I just ignore these problems? If you have any advice or book recommendations, please help, thanks .

God bless you in your journey to the Lord

I’m not going to suggest any books because the ones suggested are good and I can’t think of any more. But I wanted to give a suggestion that I think may be more beneficial than any book. Talk to God about it, talk to Jesus as if you are his friend. Never think that because God is all knowing that he doesn’t want to hear about your day the issues you are having. Just talk to him and let him speak to you. Be silent and pay attention to what is stirring in your heart. Is there uneasiness about what you talk about, peace. What thoughts come to mind as you talk to God about this. Mostly importantly let God’s divine word flow into your life. Meditate and read the Bible.

I hope that you continue to grow in your relationship with God. I hope you find some good books on this issue and I hope you can come to peace about your relationship with God through the community of the Church. Also don’t forget about the Catholic Church, there is alot of beauty there.

Lastly I hope you continue to use the forums it is a great place.

May God Abundantly Bless you

You will be in my prayers.