Please help with sola scriptura arguments

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I’ve been discussing sola scriptura with some people I know. And they’ve recently come up with these arguments. If anyone can help that would be great. This is what they said:

You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Deuteronomy 4:2

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book Revelation 22:18 - 19
 
I’ve been discussing sola scriptura with some people I know. And they’ve recently come up with these arguments. If anyone can help that would be great. This is what they said:

You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Deuteronomy 4:2

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book Revelation 22:18 - 19
Strange, the whole time I was reading this post, I kept wondering how it is that Protestants ignore Martin Luther and his fellow reformers throwing books of the Bible out. But back on topic… St. Paul talks about holding fast to Scripture AND Tradition (I Cor 11:2). In Acts 15:1-14 Peter didn’t use Scripture to solve the issue of circumcision. 1 Thess. 2:13 – Paul says, “when you received the word of God, which you heard from us…” How can the Bible be teaching first century Christians that only the Bible is their infallible source of teaching if, at the same time, oral revelation was being given to them as well? Protestants can’t claim that there is one authority (Bible) while allowing two sources of authority (Bible and oral revelation).
 
Johm 21:25 There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.

NAB translation… you may want to use King Jimmy or Young’s Literal Translation when talking to non-Catholic Christians though.

God bless
 
One other thing, The passages they quoted to you say not to add or take away from Scripture. Catholics are very much in agreement with this (which is why our Bibles have all the books). These passages say nothing about Scripture being the sole source for the soul. Ask them why they removed books from the Old Testemant… That act is at odds with these passages.

God bless
 
I’ve been discussing sola scriptura with some people I know. And they’ve recently come up with these arguments. If anyone can help that would be great. This is what they said:

You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Deuteronomy 4:2

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book Revelation 22:18 - 19
A few things to remember which will answer all of the questions you’ve raised here. (1) The Bible was originally a collection of books. (2) Not adding to the Bible is **very **different than believing in something not in the Bible. And (3) Apostolic Tradition comes from God. Oh yeah, and related to #1, (4), the Protestant Bible is much younger than the Catholic Bible. Find me a single Protestant Bible pre-Reformation, anywhere.

Deuteronomy 4:2 is specific to the law in Deuteronomy, and Jesus fulfilled that Law. So if they’re claiming we’re still bound by it, they’re the Judaizers Paul condemned. And in Matthew 5:17-48, Jesus repeatedly says, “you’ve heard it said,” (and then quotes the Law), “but I say,” and then goes beyond what the Law says. That is, He required people to believe and practice something beyond the scope of the Law. If Deuteronomy 4:2 means we’re bound to obey the Law, no more, no less, then Christ and the Christians sinned. Blasphemy, of course.

As for Proverbs 30:5-6, every word of God IS pure. And Sacred Tradition comes from Him, as 2 Thess 2:15 shows.

Revelation 22:18 - 19 is specific to “this book,” that is, Revelation. And no one sanely argues that the Catholic Church altered Revelation to insert Catholic beliefs. But that’s what’s being warned against: don’t tamper with Scripture (particularly, the Law and John’s Revelation). Don’t alter the text, etc.

If you want to be clever, point out that Martin Luther knowingly added the word “alone” to his translation of Romans 3:28, in order to “prove” sola fide. So if those texts apply to the whole of the Bible, he’s in trouble.

The 72 books of the Bible were originally separate books, and were lovingly collected by the Jewish, and then Christian, faithful. There were differences in Biblical canons, though, and questions of the canonicity of a number of books. The Church settled it in local North African councils at Hippo and Carthage. St. Augustine put his full weight behind the decision, and so a lot of people who’d held alternate views were convinced. Pope Damasus I commissioned the Latin Vulgate, containing the 72 books.

After the Reformation, the books we call the Deuterocanon were taken out from the Bible, Esther and Daniel were taken apart to remove all the Greek parts (including all of the mentions of God in Esther). No Church Council sanctioned this, no pope, etc. Who gave them the right to tear apart the Bible like this, to second-guess over a millennium of universal agreement? And if they (the person you’re talking to) have the right, might they rip out the Gospel of John tomorrow? What’s stopping them?
 
What always strikes me about the sola scriptura arguments is how they rest on the assumption that the word “Word” in the Bible always and exclusively refers to Scripture. That’s simply not true.

First, the Word is a person: Jesus Christ. He is the definitive revelation.

Second, Divine Revelation consists of both Scripture and Tradition. The Catholic Church is certainly adamant about not adding anything to this deposit of faith She has received from Christ.

Regarding that Deuteronomy quote, if “Word” referred only to the Bible, then the New Testament should not have been written. I guess St. Paul and the evangelists didn’t get that memo.

Sadly, this is just another case of cherry-picking verses out of context to “prove” what they already believe.
 
What always strikes me about the sola scriptura arguments is how they rest on the assumption that the word “Word” in the Bible always and exclusively refers to Scripture. That’s simply not true.

First, the Word is a person: Jesus Christ. He is the definitive revelation.

Second, Divine Revelation consists of both Scripture and Tradition. The Catholic Church is certainly adamant about not adding anything to this deposit of faith She has received from Christ.

Regarding that Deuteronomy quote, if “Word” referred only to the Bible, then the New Testament should not have been written. I guess St. Paul and the evangelists didn’t get that memo.

Sadly, this is just another case of cherry-picking verses out of context to “prove” what they already believe.
Good answers.👍

I have generally seen the quote from Revelation used, especially since it is at the end of the bible, which seems to give it greater weight to SS subscribers.
Yet regardless of it’s location in the canon, the quote can only be applied to the book of Revelation since the canon of scripture was not foramlly formed for another 300 years. So how did the pre-canon Christians who read the book of revelataion know which of the other “words”/books" must not be added to or taken from?

In addition it can be clearly shown that all pre-reformation bibles contained 73 books ALL duly approved by multiple Church councils So that means that the Bible canon [with the quotes from deuteronomy and revelation in them existed unchanged for 1000 years of the Christian era. So if these quotes, existing in the pre-Luther canon, are to be applied to the entire canon, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that Luther and those who followed are the ones who changed the bible canon, to “took away from the word”.
SS proponents will point to Trent as being when the Bible canon was set and closed by the Church but this is a “red herring” argument that does not hold up.

Finally I would suggest that you point out to them that, at the time Luther was delcaring the Bible the supreme rule of faith, he not only wanted to remove the OT books, but also
James, Jude, Hebrews and - (suprise surpise) - Revelation from the NT.

Imagine evangelical christianity without revelation…

Hope some of this helps.

Peace
James
 
2 Thessalonians 3:4,6,8 We are confident of you in the Lord that what we instruct you , you are doing, and will continue to do. 6 We *instruct *you, brothers, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus Christ,to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us

1 Timothy 1:3,7
3 I repeat the request I made of you when I was on my way to Macedonia, that you stay in Ephesus to instruct certain people not to teach false doctrines 7 wanting to be teachers of the law, but without understanding either what they are **saying **or what they assert with such assurance.
Code:
     1 Timothy 4:6-15
6 If you will give these instructions to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound teaching you have followed. 11 Command and** teach** these things. 13 Until I arrive, attend to the reading, exhortation, and teaching**.** 14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was conferred on you through the prophetic word with the imposition of hands of the presbyterate.
Code:
  1 Timothy 4:16
16 Attend to yourself and to your teaching**;** persevere in both tasks, for by doing so you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.

2 Timothy 1:13
13 Take as your norm the sound words that you heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
Code:
      2 Timothy 2:2
2 And what you** heard** from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to **teach **others as well.
Code:
       2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but, following their own desires and insatiable curiosity, will accumulate teachers 4 and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths.

1 Timothy 3:15:
Code:
"But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is **the church**of the living God,     **the pillar and foundation of truth."
.
**
 
It is very simple and can be done sola scriptura!😛

Just look at Acts 15 and the council of Jerusalem.

A question arises and there is argument amongst the believers. What does Paul and Barnabas do? Do they refute the antagonizers from the bible? No, they go up to Jerusalem and present the case to a gathering of the apostles. Peter makes a decleration of faith, and the debating stops. James tells his portion of the church, the Jewish wing, to stop bothering the Gentiles. The Bible is interpreted WITHIN the framework of church leadership and the ruling is binding on all the faithful. The scripture says, For it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us… The decision was guided by the Holy Spirit and was binding. That is the Catholic model of church governance, and not the protestant one.
 
I’ve been discussing sola scriptura with some people I know. And they’ve recently come up with these arguments. If anyone can help that would be great. This is what they said:

You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Deuteronomy 4:2

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book Revelation 22:18 - 19
a helpful book to familiarize yourself with is not by scripture alone’
amazon.com/Not-Scripture-Alone-Protestant-Scriptura/dp/1579180558/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274335491&sr=1-1
 
Last evening, I was reading “The Jewish Bible” which is a guide to the Hebrew Scriptures (what we call the Old Testament), published by Jewish Publication Society (Philadelphia).

Contrary to a previous post, Jews do not recognize the process that we call canonization. Instead, they look at the history of the Jewish writings as a gradual process of development. And, just like our own Christian history of canonization, the rationalization for including certain writings and excluding others is not all that clear. In both cases, it was done by a concensus in a body of religious leaders, whether a council or the assembly.

One thing is clear, neither Jews nor Christians stopped in their tracks at Deut 4:2. Technically, anything after that verse violates it, right? It’s never been interpreted that way.

An enormously obvious case is what happened as a result of the destruction of the second temple, in AD 70. The animal sacrifices commanded in the Torah ceased and an interpretation (or perhaps many interpretations) followed to decide what to do. And, the cessation of the temple sacrifice gave the rabbis a lot of heartburn and heartache, but things went on without the temple and its sacrifices. The synagogue was “interpreted” to be the substitute for the temple.

And, another example are the journeys to the temple that are also commanded, journeys which Jesus and his family performed, as described even in the gospels.

Lastly, I haven’t heard a good homily or read a book that explains a passage of Matthew’s gospel called the Great Commission, where Jesus tells his disciples to teach all nations to observe “all that [he] has commanded.” In the first place, what did Jesus command?

In a way, that becomes like Deut 4:2, in that it creates a boundary of do’s and don’ts, but where is that boundary? Is it around the gospels alone? or, is it around the entire New Testament (explain your answer)?

Jews and Christians have always taken their respective inspired books to be “extensible”, extending to situations not explicitly contained in them, like the question of the morality of using nuclear weapons.

And, the whole thing falls apart when you start to get picky about things we tend to take for granted. The Torah prohibits something which the Hebrew word pronounced mah-lah-kah refers to. The problem is, even the Jews today (Rabbi David Wolpe) says that nobody knows what mal-lah-kah is. (“Houston, we have a problem.”) How can we avoid mah-lah-kah, if we don’t even know reliably what it is? It’s been interpreted as “work” – we’re supposed to rest on the Sabbath and not work, right? Well, that’s what we all take it to mean, even the Jews don’t really know what that ancient word means.

Sola scriptura falls apart under its own weight.
 
Protestants do not base their belief in sola scriptura on these passages, which can only be used as a very weak defense of this Protestant doctrine. Protestants and not only Catholics have published countless sermons based on the Bible, theological works and commentaries on the Bible. These all add to the Bible in the way the people you talked with seem to condemn (if I understand what they are saying).
Catholic Answers by the way has a discussion covering sola scripturea, at
www.catholic.com/library/Scripture_and_Tradition.asp
If you ever get a chance you ought to read a book which well deals with sola scriptura. This is Scott Hahn’s autobiography, “Rome Sweet Home.” A convert to Catholicism, Sola scriptura had been at the core of his religious beliefs as a Protestant. A professor at a seminary of his church, he agonized over sola scriptura as he began realizing that sola scriptura is not in the Bible, and he ended a Catholic.
 
And, the whole thing falls apart when you start to get picky about things we tend to take for granted. The Torah prohibits something which the Hebrew word pronounced mah-lah-kah refers to. The problem is, even the Jews today (Rabbi David Wolpe) says that nobody knows what mal-lah-kah is. (“Houston, we have a problem.”) How can we avoid mah-lah-kah, if we don’t even know reliably what it is? It’s been interpreted as “work” – we’re supposed to rest on the Sabbath and not work, right? Well, that’s what we all take it to mean, even the Jews don’t really know what that ancient word means.

Sola scriptura falls apart under its own weight.
Melachah generally refers to creative work and work that exercises control over your environment. The prime example of melachah is the work of creating the universe, which God ceased from on the seventh day. There was no physical effort involved in the creation of the universe. We only read that God spoke it into existence.

The only other time this word is used in the Torah, other than in Genesis where God ceases “Melachah” on the seventh day, is in relation to building the sanctuary in Exodus chapter 31 - 38. Here again the shabbat restrictions are referenced. So the rabbis concluded that the types of work prohibited on Shabbat were the types of work involved in building the sanctuary.
 
I am a recent convert so take this with a grain of salt, but I did just cover this in my Sola Scriptura blog post.

I agree Tietjen’s (reply #2) answer.

It was the Catholic Church who determined infallibly what books are in the Holy Bible (from among many). We could do that as we believe in (1) Sacred Tradition and (2) an infallible Magisterium. We also don’t see how one of heretical Catholic priest (Martin Luther) can change that on his own (non-existent) authority.
 
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