Please help

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brierpatch1974

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I have a question and I am not sure where to post it. And I am not trying to bash anyone just looking for an answer to an argument I have been seeing going on. Person A says the catholic church can not deny communion to anyone who openly and publicly supports homosexuality, gay marriage and abortions. Person B says that communion is suppose to be denied if person A doesn’t change their beliefs and actions on the subject. Person B also says that if the priest speaks to person A and they do not change communion should be denied but if the priest doesn’t do this and allows it then the priest is suppose to be talked to be his higher ups about the issue and removed if he doesn’t change and stop the others as well.

I am not Catholic and have no idea but this is a raging debate here in my area. One church is pretty strict in teachers and the other one is very liberal and very open in publicly supporting these things. So what should be done about this argument going on between two churches ?

Thank you all for educating me on this, as I stated I am not catholic and seeing two extremes really has me confused.
 
The pastor and the bishop have authority over the Catholics in their care. When a Catholic is in a public capacity speaking or teaching contrary to Church teaching, it is the pastor and/or bishop would should and would approach them about this. This is a PRIVATE discussion.

For those who are in official capacities in the Church such as theologians, priests, sisters, those teaching in Catholic schools, universities, and teaching on behalf of the Church-- many times when those individuals teach something contrary to Church teaching they will be censured in a public way through the Church’s judicial process so that people know of the dangers of their teaching. Their teaching or ministry can be suppressed or the person put under a canonical penalty.

In cases where a person is under a canonical penalty, in most cases they cannot receive communion.

In other cases, people who are not in official teaching capacities in the Church but who nevertheless publicly promote or act contrary to the Church’s teaching could be refused communion, this is typically done privately and the person is told not to approach the sacrament. There aren’t any communion police waiting to turn someone away, and frankly I don’t know many priests who would get into a battle regarding communion at the altar itself. It is best handled privately.

It isn’t black and white, it is the bishop’s discretion in these situations and the goal is always to bring the person back to the fullness of truth and assist them in their spiritual journey. Not to punish or embarrass people.
To use a non-Catholic analogy, in the town I grew up in, mostly Baptist, the preacher or a deacon would show up at houses of people who were known to go out drinking and dancing and explain to them why this is not in keeping with being an upstanding member of the First Baptist Church. It was a friendly visit, done in private, but if they didn’t straighten up then they might find their ministry or leadership role in the church curtailed. I don’t know anyone who got kicked out, but I do know people who got visits.
 
brierpatch1974 said:
I have a question and I am not sure where to post it. And I am not trying to bash anyone just looking for an answer to an argument I have been seeing going on. Person A says the catholic church can not deny communion to anyone who openly and publicly supports homosexuality, gay marriage and abortions. Person B says that communion is suppose to be denied if person A doesn’t change their beliefs and actions on the subject. Person B also says that if the priest speaks to person A and they do not change communion should be denied but if the priest doesn’t do this and allows it then the priest is suppose to be talked to be his higher ups about the issue and removed if he doesn’t change and stop the others as well.

I am not Catholic and have no idea but this is a raging debate here in my area. One church is pretty strict in teachers and the other one is very liberal and very open in publicly supporting these things. So what should be done about this argument going on between two churches ?

Thank you all for educating me on this, as I stated I am not catholic and seeing two extremes really has me confused.
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1ke summed it up well. It’s not black and white unfortunately as the Church is being taken over by the liberals. It’s been accurately dubbed the “church of nice” by the Church Militant apostolate.

There are clergy who are in need of correction. That’s what should be done, not sure if it ever will be.
 
I really don’t understand it, either, why people who openly and publicly support homosexuality, gay marriage and abortions even call themselves Catholic. If you don’t follow traditional church teachings, leave the church and go elsewhere. It’s this madness of trying to ‘conform’ the church to their beliefs.

Ephesians 4:14 Douay-Rheims
That henceforth we be no more children tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the wickedness of men, by cunning craftiness, by which they lie in wait to deceive…St.Paul
 
Casilda said:
I really don’t understand it, either, why people who openly and publicly support homosexuality, gay marriage and abortions even call themselves Catholic. If you don’t follow traditional church teachings, leave the church and go elsewhere. It’s this madness of trying to ‘conform’ the church to their beliefs.

Ephesians 4:14 Douay-Rheims
That henceforth we be no more children tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the wickedness of men, by cunning craftiness, by which they lie in wait to deceive…St.Paul
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Are you referring to Joe Biden?
 
Thank you everyone for the replies. Apparently one of these churches is very liberal while the other is very conservative. As I stated I am not catholic but my personal opinion is someone higher up needs to come have a talk with both of them. Even sporting events between the two churches schools are getting a little hostile and its not over sports.
 
Casilda said:
I am referring to all those who identify as ‘Catholic’ but do not hold to the church’s teachings as handed down to us from the Apostles.
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Is being pro choice a offense worthy of excommunication?
 
brierpatch1974 said:
Thank you everyone for the replies. Apparently one of these churches is very liberal while the other is very conservative. As I stated I am not catholic but my personal opinion is someone higher up needs to come have a talk with both of them. Even sporting events between the two churches schools are getting a little hostile and its not over sports.
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Keep in mind you would never know if “higher ups” (a.k.a. the bishop) spoke with an individual unless that individual went public-- because it is a private matter and the bishop isn’t going to make it public. That is a private correction between the bishop and his flock.

Just because you (or these so-called liberal and conservative Catholics) have no knowledge of corrective discussions, it doesn’t mean they haven’t taken place.

It would become public if it reaches the point of a canonical censure or penalty being imposed through the judicial process of the church. That usually involves a trial.
 
1ke said:
Keep in mind you would never know if “higher ups” (a.k.a. the bishop) spoke with an individual unless that individual went public-- because it is a private matter and the bishop isn’t going to make it public. That is a private correction between the bishop and his flock.

Just because you (or these so-called liberal and conservative Catholics) have no knowledge of corrective discussions, it doesn’t mean they haven’t taken place.

It would become public if it reaches the point of a canonical censure or penalty being imposed through the judicial process of the church. That usually involves a trial.
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Granted it is a private matter but when time goes by and there are no changes in these peoples actions and no action has been taken you would have to assume the leaders did nothing or are in agreement with the liberal views. So I would assume the proper path would be to go on to the next higher ups boss so to speak.
 
Lenten_ashes said:
1ke summed it up well. It’s not black and white unfortunately as the Church is being taken over by the liberals. It’s been accurately dubbed the “church of nice” by the Church Militant apostolate.

There are clergy who are in need of correction. That’s what should be done, not sure if it ever will be.
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Michael Voris, AKA “Church Militant” is NOT an apostolate.
 
Son_of_Niall said:
Michael Voris, AKA “Church Militant” is NOT an apostolate.
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Exactly correct. Voris is rebellious and scandalous guy with SSA that actual!y moved to different diocese and changed the name of his “ministry” after being called to obedience by his bishop. That is why you will not see the word Catholic in his name because he is forbidden to use it as he does not accurately represent Catholic teachings.

He never has anything good to say about the church and I won’t listen to him and wouldn’t follow him across the street.

Remember what St. Ignatius of Antioch said about “Let nothing be done without the bishop…”
 
Casilda said:
Well, Mr. Voris had led a sinful lifestyle but has reverted to his Catholic faith and is now a member in good standing, as is his apostolate. You do not have to like him, but spreading falsehoods about him is wrong.

ourladyspromise.org/church-militant-tv.php
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Sorry but you are wrong to refer to cmtv as an apostolate because that requires submission to and approval of the local bishop. Even CA has such under the bishop of San Diego but Voris blew that when he messed up in his previous diocese and moved to where he is now but he still has no approval of the local bishop so he can’t licity use Catholic in the name.

So his is NOT a Catholic apostolate…period. His lack of faithful obedience disqualifies him as a trustworthy source.u
 
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