Please Let Harry Potter Die

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JKirkLVNV said:
We don’t know that Frodo or Bilbo DIDN’T die. Yes, he traveled to the “uttermost West,” to the land of the Valar, but if you read the Sillmarillion, only for the descendants Earendil was there a seperate doom pronounced and by no less than Manwe Sulimo. Since hobbits were mortals, if we must assume anything, it must be that they, too, eventually went to the Halls of Mandos to await the world’s remaking.

Gosh, I love Tolkien. You can talk total geek, but it doesn’t really SOUND geekish!
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I thought Frodo & Bilbo end up going to Tol Eressea, just short of the land of the Valar, and that they eventually die there. Presumably the same would apply to Sam when he too went over sea​

I’m sure I’ve seen references to their deaths happening precisely because they are both mortals. Frodo was given Arwen’s place on the ship - he was not given her life-span, for she renounced that by choosing to stay with Aragorn.

The person I’m sorry for is Elrond - he loses all his children, just as he had lost his brother: though not (in the end) his wife. ##
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

I thought Frodo & Bilbo end up going to Tol Eressea, just short of the land of the Valar, and that they eventually die there. Presumably the same would apply to Sam when he too went over sea​

I’m sure I’ve seen reference to their death, precisely because they are both mortals. Frodo wa given Arwen’s place on the ship - he was not given her life-span, for she renounced that by choosing to stay with Aragorn.

The person I’m sorry for is Elrond - he loses all his children, just as he lost his brother; though not (in the end) his wife. ##
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Liberalsaved said:
According to the notes, they would not have been made immortal, a priveledge reserved only for one mortal (can’t remember who).
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Tuor, & Eärendil (who is his son), & Elwing, wife of Eärendil (IIRC - though she may be of Elven descent, & so, deathless in her own right)​

But the point is, he did not die as a result of his quest.

Wow, someone else who knows what the Gift of Men meant.
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Gottle_of_Geer said:

Tuor, & Eärendil (who is his son), & Elwing, wife of Eärendil (IIRC - though she may be of Elven descent, & so, deathless in her own right)​

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Right! Though Tuor was simply made like the elves in lifespan, whereas Earendil was transformed.
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

I thought Frodo & Bilbo end up going to Tol Eressea, just short of the land of the Valar, and that they eventually die there. Presumably the same would apply to Sam when he too went over sea​

I’m sure I’ve seen references to their deaths happening precisely because they are both mortals. Frodo was given Arwen’s place on the ship - he was not given her life-span, for she renounced that by choosing to stay with Aragorn.

The person I’m sorry for is Elrond - he loses all his children, just as he had lost his brother: though not (in the end) his wife. ##
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I think they are stated as going all the way there. Just because they go to Valinor does not mean they don’t die.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
We don’t know that Frodo or Bilbo DIDN’T die. Yes, he traveled to the “uttermost West,” to the land of the Valar, but if you read the Sillmarillion, only for the descendants Earendil was there a seperate doom pronounced and by no less than Manwe Sulimo. Since hobbits were mortals, if we must assume anything, it must be that they, too, eventually went to the Halls of Mandos to await the world’s remaking.

Gosh, I love Tolkien. You can talk total geek, but it doesn’t really SOUND geekish!
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Dude… I am a total Tolkien Geek:thumbsup: . I have the maps, a sword and a functional Gandalf Pipe. I have read LoTR and Silmarillion and Book of Lost tales I. Tolkien is far superior to Rowling.:eek:

God Bless
Finrod Anwamane
(Sean)

told you total freak;)
 
When I first read about Morgoth…whoa! That guy was a great super villian…no…he is in a seperate catagory. I wonder if he ever gets free from his bonds? any one know?

I think it is so awesome the Frodo gets the star of Earendill!!,
that was a mighty gift.
 
Sean.McKenzie said:
When I first read about Morgoth…whoa! That guy was a great super villian…no…he is in a seperate catagory. I wonder if he ever gets free from his bonds? any one know?

I think it is so awesome the Frodo gets the star of Earendill!!,
that was a mighty gift.
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Morgoth and Sauron will both return for the final battle, after which the souls of Men will sing a song that will create a new Arda. That’s why Men die.
 
Liberalsaved said:
Morgoth and Sauron will both return for the final battle, after which the souls of Men will sing a song that will create a new Arda. That’s why Men die.
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The character I wonder about is Ar-Pharazon - he was a spectacularly bad King: he​

  • usurped the throne from his wife who was the rightful heir to it
  • built a temple to Morgoth in Armenelos
  • allowed members of the Faithful to be sacrificed to Morgoth
  • cut down the White Tree
  • built an immense fleet for making war on the Valar
  • broke the Ban of the Valar
  • set foot on the land of the Valar
  • …and his actions led to the Downfall of both his kingdom & Numenor itself
    Not the ideal ruler, at all.
BTW - thanks for the detail about Earendil 🙂

I’m trying to understand how Sauron can return, give that he is crippled. And how Morgoth can break free of his chain Angainor - maybe we need a proper Tolkien thread 😃 🙂 ##
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

The character I wonder about is Ar-Pharazon - he was a spectacularly bad King: he​

  • usurped the throne from his wife who was the rightful heir to it
  • built a temple to Morgoth in Armenelos
  • allowed members of the Faithful to be sacrificed to Morgoth
  • cut down the White Tree
  • built an immense fleet for making war on the Valar
  • broke the Ban of the Valar
  • set foot on the land of the Valar
  • …and his actions led to the Downfall of both his kingdom & Numenor itself
    Not the ideal ruler, at all.
BTW - thanks for the detail about Earendil 🙂

I’m trying to understand how Sauron can return, give that he is crippled. And how Morgoth can break free of his chain Angainor - maybe we need a proper Tolkien thread 😃 🙂 ##
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maybe we need a proper Tolkien thread
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And it was so…Check it out, just started a Tolkien thread and everything related. Come check it out.
 
We now have a thread dedicated to evrything Tolkien books, movies based on his works. Now we can properly address Tolkien related discussions, especially those particular discussions which are proper to Middle Earth…(or Numenor, Beleriand, Arda). Hope to see you there!
 
Rowling should let Potter die, because that is what tragic heroes do.
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I am of the oppion that Harry will die in book 7. The main reason for this is because of what dumbledore says Harry has over Voldemort, which is the ablity to love. Of course the ultimate show of love is to sacrifice your life for another. I will truly be shocked if this does not happen.
 
But if Harry dies, will Voldermort live on and keep torturing people? I’ve got mixed feelings since I refused to finish the 5th book and have 100 pages left of the 6th book (got spoiled on both of the endings). So I’m not sure what I want to happen. How about Harry live, but he fades away into obscurity, and lives like Obi-Wan Kenobi, forsaking the Wizarding world (however in Obi-Wan’s case, he was forced into exile, but I think you know what I’m trying to get at for Harry’s fate).

I just know I want this book to be published and the series overwith. My dad keeps asking me when the 5th movie will be at the theatres. He’s mad that its not until July of 2007… :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
I believe that Snape is good and did what he did to Dumbledor after planning it with Dumbledor in advance. It was all part of the plan, which Dumbledor sacraficed himself for (he was always a god-like figure to me). Too many years were spent showing that Snape was actually good and trustworthy. I think we are all in for a suprise. Perhaps Harry goes “beyond the veil” to consult with Dumbledor on what to do next. When is the last book coming out, anyway?:confused:
 
I hope it dies, I could care less about Harry Potter. Star Trek is better than Harry Potter.
 
Well, then stop posting on this thread and start a star trek thred. Don’t ruin it for the rest of us.
 
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