Please tell me . . .

[Tonks40]

VM:

You’re speakin’ to me! Luke 15:11-32 is my favorite parable. It’s so good i’ve gotta cut and paste:

11 Jesus continued: "There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them.

13 "Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

17 "When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.

"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

21 "The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

22 "But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

25 "Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’

28 "The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’ 31 " ‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ "
I indented it so those who are overly familiar with it can skip it. It never gets too old to me, though. Have you ever noticed that there really are two prodigal sons in the parable? The one who never left home is the one who did not repent.

Isn’t God’s timing pretty amazing?? This passage was our Gospel reading this past Sunday!

BTW, to answer your question, I’m a cradle Catholic who also fell away from the Church for a number of years. Three years ago, after years of barely having a spiritual life, I was invited to be a part of a non-denominational church’s gospel group as a singer. I credit this group and church for bringing me back to having a great love for Christ, and came pretty close to actually joining the church. Before I decided to take the plunge, though, I thought I’d do myself a favor and research to see if my Catholic faith taught Truth - and to my surprise, I found out that it did. I think I knew this in the back of my mind, but was in denial for a long time.I came running back to the Church, and have been there ever since.

What keeps me in the Church? The Sacraments, especially the Eucharist.

 

[homewardbound]

Do you think the error was caused by that pastor (or reverend) or by the particular denomination of which he was a member?

The denomination. Baptist. I have found that much of their doctrine is not even biblical. (Once saved always saved, faith alone, sola scriptura, etc) Once I found that, I could no longer in good conscience remain with them. Of course, I have also experienced many bad pastors as well, but there are bad pastors in every denomination. Once I was disillusioned by the faith I had been raised with, I stopped going to church for a few years. Then, decided I needed to do more research and find where it was God wanted me. In my search for the truth, the only place that had it all and followed what I found to be God’s Word the best was the Catholic Church. I have no doubt its where God wants me to be. I’ve never been so close to Him.

 

[jmcrae]

I was first called to become Catholic on August 7th, 1983 (I was 22 years old) when for the first time in my whole life, I saw the Mass. Up until that moment, I had had absolutely no idea what the Catholic Church was - I had heard the name, of course, but everything I thought I knew about it was incorrect.

It was purely by accident, and due to the fact that I was terribly shy, that I ended up at Mass - the sequence of events was as follows:

On that Sunday afternoon of August 7th at around 4:30, I went out for a walk. I happened to be walking by a church when I got caught up into a crowd of little old ladies who were going into it. Because I could not speak to them (due to being so very shy) I couldn’t say “Excuse me” and walk through or past them, so I waited for them to get by - but because of the crowd, I was sort of getting pushed along toward the church door.

As they went in, I was about to make my escape and continue with my walk, when suddenly a very elderly little clergyman grabbed me by the front of the shirt, pulled me in, and said, “Hurry! You are late for Mass!”

Up to that moment, the only thing I knew about mass was that it is measured in kilograms, and so I was completely baffled - what on earth did he mean? At that moment, I decided to “accept the adventure” (we had been reading the works of Joseph Campbell in my English class at college), and I went in.

The Mass completely blew my mind. As a reasonably well-educated liberal Protestant, I immediately recognized the “metaphorical” aspects of the heavenly worship of the Book of Revelation.

At the same time, it was also a very human experience - very simple, direct, and uncluttered. Everything in the entire space was directed to one thing alone - the worship of God - but not at some impossible level of idealism; these people were not doing anything that didn’t at least look easy to do. The homily was the very first religious talk I had ever heard in my life that contained absolutely no Greek or Hebrew vocabulary lessons at all. The priest simply took the plain message of the Gospel lesson and applied it in a very direct way to life in northwest Calgary on an August afternoon.

If it had been possible to do so, I would have converted right there, on the spot.

As it turned out, it actually took me until April of 2001 before I began to receive the Sacraments, because as I began my study of the Catholic faith, I ran into all sorts of things that gave me trouble - the teachings about Mary, the role of the Papacy and the Magesterium - actually, the whole boring list of troublesome topics, and also a few that I managed to invent for myself along the way.

But the kicker for me was when it finally penetrated my understanding that the Catholic Church that has its headquarters in Rome, and has the Pope for its leader, is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that was founded by Christ.

Once I “got” that, everything else just fell into place, and I was able to complete the RCIA process, and be received into the Church.

Every day since then has been a wonderful and amazing adventure. Every time I think I know where the edges of this Church are, I discover a new nook or cranny that I had never been aware of, before.

I don’t know if this is common, or whether it is completely unique to my parish, but it seems to me that I am surrounded by Saints and miracle workers - and it also seems as though nobody but me thinks that there is anything at all extraordinary about that - because, after all, why wouldn’t they be? They’re in Christ’s Church, after all.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

S4J - Hi!
I like your style of inquiry, which explains your screen-name - my med school relied heavily on the Socratic method and I find it great!
I too have lots of questions as I am preparing to join the Catholic Church. What do I like about the Church?
The reverence and solemnity.
The accountability (to an extent).

Of course there are areas I have issues with as well.

The Socratic method, as my uneducated mind understands it, is simply a way of asking questions to better understand what people believe, why they believe it, and whether their beliefs are true. For Socrates, his goal was not to win arguments but to find truth that results in wisdom and virtue and reject falsehood, folly and sin.

How did the socratic method help you with med school?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Isn’t God’s timing pretty amazing?? This passage was our Gospel reading this past Sunday! …

I love it when God does that!

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

The denomination. Baptist. I have found that much of their doctrine is not even biblical. (Once saved always saved, faith alone, sola scriptura, etc) Once I found that, I could no longer in good conscience remain with them. Of course, I have also experienced many bad pastors as well, but there are bad pastors in every denomination. Once I was disillusioned by the faith I had been raised with, I stopped going to church for a few years. Then, decided I needed to do more research and find where it was God wanted me. In my search for the truth, the only place that had it all and followed what I found to be God’s Word the best was the Catholic Church. I have no doubt its where God wants me to be. I’ve never been so close to Him.

Yeah, i’ve been burned myself a few times by people who call themselves Christians. Glad to see you do not take their sticking it to you as Jesus sticking it to you.

Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. So watch yourselves.

“If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.”

– Jesus (Luke 17:1-4)

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

… I don’t know if this is common, or whether it is completely unique to my parish, but it seems to me that I am surrounded by Saints and miracle workers - and it also seems as though nobody but me thinks that there is anything at all extraordinary about that - because, after all, why wouldn’t they be? They’re in Christ’s Church, after all.

Sounds like a group i’d like to meet.

 

[exiled]

Interesting, Ex. How would you say my own love for my blessed Lord and Savior is limited? (Don’t worry; i won’t be offended by your answer.)

I’m saying not that your love for Christ is limited, but the Bible Christians I know call love for anyone else, talking to anyone else, emulating anyone else, idolatry or some other such nonsense. There is no such thing as having too much love.
First we are to love Our Lord, next others as we love ourselves. Jesus Christ says if we say we love God but hate our neighbor, then indeed we do not love God. There is nothing that takes away from Jesus Christ by loving those who have devoted their lives to being as close to Him as they can possibly get. (the Blessed Mother and the Saints) We try to imitate them, learn from them, and He is not offended by that.

 

[jmcrae]

Sounds like a group i’d like to meet.

I think you would like them very, very much.

 

[drafdog]

I am a Catholic because…
Did you ever notice that every time a holiness movement hits a Protestant denomination, instead of accepting joyfully the resurgence of faith, they get pushed out? Thus is born another denomination. That’s why we have Methodists (who were originally Anglican). If you try to do Charismatic Renewal in the Baptist Church you’ll get push out. A friend of mine had that happen to the congregation he attended.
In the Catholic Church it’s different. Some people wanted to boot out some upstart named Francis on the grounds that radical poverty for God was heretical. But we kept St. Francis and the Little Brothers. The Charismatic Movement hit the Catholic Church and instead of pushing out the kooks, the bishops sent priests to keep an eye on things and report back. It never went overboard into heresy, and it has given us some good clergy including the pastor of my parish.
Only in Catholicism can you find the depth and breadth of spiritualities that truly says “universal.”
As the great Irish author James Joyce once said, “Catholic means ‘Here comes everyone.’”

Matthew

 

[Jaime]

I am a Catholic because I believe in exactly what the word means: universal. I believe that all Christians around the world, all people, should be called to stand unified under the Lord. This does not necessarily mean that all Christians have to be Catholics in the denominational sense of the world. My brothers and sisters, there are too many quarells these days between different denominations, as there always have been throughout history. The only way we can further ourselves to be more like the Lord Jesus Christ is by establishing a sense of unity as apostles of the Lord and the successors of the earliest Christians such as Peter and Paul. Ultimately, when we are face to face with God ourselves, it will not matter what denomination you have followed. There is no correct denomination. What matters is how we loved and followed in the example of the Lord Jesus Christ.
In this world that is so very filled with the corruptions of the evil one, we must stand strong and hold firmly to our Christian identity. I call upon each and every one of you to not look at such trivial aspects like denomination but rather see the good of all the children of God no matter what order they may follow. Let us look at the Scriptures and follow what Christ has told us, acting indeed universally instead of separating ourselves from one another. Unite, my fellow Christians, and let us together make this world a better place, defeating all the temptations and impurities which the evil one has plagued society with. We must unite because otherwise we are falling into what the evil one desires, for us to be disorganized and isolated from one another. Under the Lord Jesus Christ who loves each and every one of us, let us act as one body and spread the Truth, the Word of the Lord, to all people. If everybody followed the will of the Lord, imagine how amazing the world would be. Let us try and make this ideal a reality. May all of you be blessed in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

 

[jack_hawkins]

The Socratic method, as my uneducated mind understands it, is simply a way of asking questions to better understand what people believe, why they believe it, and whether their beliefs are true. For Socrates, his goal was not to win arguments but to find truth that results in wisdom and virtue and reject falsehood, folly and sin.

How did the socratic method help you with med school?

you don’t sound uneducated at all
encouraging us to learn by asking questions instead of just spoon-feeding us - maybe I am using the wrong term

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

you don’t sound uneducated at all
encouraging us to learn by asking questions instead of just spoon-feeding us - maybe I am using the wrong term

Thanks for the compliment, Jack! I had a good Catholic friend named Jack Donato when i was growing up. He was a real Barnabas (that is, encourager). I imagine you Jacks all take after one another?

 

[Subrosa]

Socrates4Jesus:
What’s a scrutiny?From NewAdvent.com
Scrutiny

(Lat. scrutinium from scrutari to search, to investigate)
A term variously employed in canon law.

(1) In promotion to orders a scrutiny or examination of the candidate is to be made according to the warning of the Apostle: “Impose not hands lightly upon any man” (1 Timothy 5:22). That the practice is ancient is testified to by St. Cyprian (who died in 258) in his thirty-eighth epistle. The ninth canon of the Council of Nicæa (325) supposes the scrutiny of candidates to be already in use. Many later synods enforced and defined more exactly this scrutiny of those who aspired to orders. The present discipline is laid down by the Council of Trent (Sess. XXIII, Cap. v, de ref.), though its observance in every detail has not been reduced to practice in all countries. A three-fold scrutiny is ordered: first, through the inquiry into the qualities of the candidates by the parish priest and teachers and by public proclamation in the Church. The information thus obtained is to be embodied in a testimonial letter to the bishop. Secondly, shortly before ordination through the bishop himself and ecclesiastical persons appointed to examine into the morals, faith, and doctrine of the candidates. Thirdly, through the ceremonial form prescribed by the Pontificale Romanum for the ordination of a deacon or priest.

(2) Scrutiny is also a form of ecclesiastical election and is made either by written ballot or by pronouncing the chosen name before legitimate scrutators alone. It is the usual form for electing the pope.
(3) Scrutiny is also the term for the examination of catechumens before baptism. In ancient times there were three such scrutinies and later on the number was increased to seven. From the Middle Ages onwards owing to the fact that most who received baptism were infants the prescribed scrutinies were reduced to that now found in the ritual for conferring baptism. The subject-matter of these scrutinies was the faith and dispositions of the candidate.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

From NewAdvent.com
Scrutiny

(Lat. scrutinium from scrutari to search, to investigate)
A term variously employed in canon law.

(1) In promotion to orders a scrutiny or examination of the candidate is to be made according to the warning of the Apostle: “Impose not hands lightly upon any man” (1 Timothy 5:22). That the practice is ancient is testified to by St. Cyprian (who died in 258) in his thirty-eighth epistle. The ninth canon of the Council of Nicæa (325) supposes the scrutiny of candidates to be already in use. Many later synods enforced and defined more exactly this scrutiny of those who aspired to orders. The present discipline is laid down by the Council of Trent (Sess. XXIII, Cap. v, de ref.), though its observance in every detail has not been reduced to practice in all countries. A three-fold scrutiny is ordered: first, through the inquiry into the qualities of the candidates by the parish priest and teachers and by public proclamation in the Church. The information thus obtained is to be embodied in a testimonial letter to the bishop. Secondly, shortly before ordination through the bishop himself and ecclesiastical persons appointed to examine into the morals, faith, and doctrine of the candidates. Thirdly, through the ceremonial form prescribed by the Pontificale Romanum for the ordination of a deacon or priest.
…

Thank you, Sub. Is scrutiny used to confirm an adult’s faith before he receives the sacrament of baptism? If a person was baptized and confirmed in the Roman Catholic church but has not attended mass for many years, would scrutiny be required?

 

[KennC]

From NewAdvent.com
Scrutiny

(Lat. scrutinium from scrutari to search, to investigate)
A term variously employed in canon law.

(1) In promotion to orders a scrutiny or examination of the candidate is to be made according to the warning of the Apostle: “Impose not hands lightly upon any man” (1 Timothy 5:22). That the practice is ancient is testified to by St. Cyprian (who died in 258) in his thirty-eighth epistle. The ninth canon of the Council of Nicæa (325) supposes the scrutiny of candidates to be already in use. Many later synods enforced and defined more exactly this scrutiny of those who aspired to orders. The present discipline is laid down by the Council of Trent (Sess. XXIII, Cap. v, de ref.), though its observance in every detail has not been reduced to practice in all countries. A three-fold scrutiny is ordered: first, through the inquiry into the qualities of the candidates by the parish priest and teachers and by public proclamation in the Church. The information thus obtained is to be embodied in a testimonial letter to the bishop. Secondly, shortly before ordination through the bishop himself and ecclesiastical persons appointed to examine into the morals, faith, and doctrine of the candidates. Thirdly, through the ceremonial form prescribed by the Pontificale Romanum for the ordination of a deacon or priest.

(2) Scrutiny is also a form of ecclesiastical election and is made either by written ballot or by pronouncing the chosen name before legitimate scrutators alone. It is the usual form for electing the pope.
(3) Scrutiny is also the term for the examination of catechumens before baptism. In ancient times there were three such scrutinies and later on the number was increased to seven. From the Middle Ages onwards owing to the fact that most who received baptism were infants the prescribed scrutinies were reduced to that now found in the ritual for conferring baptism. The subject-matter of these scrutinies was the faith and dispositions of the candidate.

Hi Socrates; I’m afraid I missed that.

Thanks Subrosa, this is quite different than what they spoke of in the RCIA classes?? Thanks for the definition.

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you, Sub. Is scrutiny used to confirm an adult’s faith before he receives the sacrament of baptism? If a person was baptized and confirmed in the Roman Catholic church but has not attended mass for many years, would scrutiny be required?

No. Just a good Confession. (Which I guess amounts to the same thing, doesn’t it?)

What a lot of returning Catholics do is they sit in on RCIA classes for a few weeks or months, and then make a General Confession of all the sins of their life, and then they are readmitted to the Sacraments. (This is not strictly required, however. The only thing required is to make a good Confession that covers all sins committed since the last time they made a good Confession. This can happen as soon as the person is ready to go ahead and do it.)

If they had not received the Sacrament of Confirmation before they originally left the Church, they would be eligible to receive it after making their General Confession. This would be arranged with the priest, and would most likely take place at the same time as the RCIA participants’ Confirmation ceremony, or at a time convenient to the Bishop. This would all be organized through the person’s local parish.