Pleg of allegiance

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What denominations don’t stand for or say the Pleg of allegiance, sing the national anthem? And why?
 
C_the_K said:
What denominations don’t stand for or say the Pleg of allegiance, sing the national anthem? And why?
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The Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t say the pledge or sing patriotic songs or celebrate birthdays because they see it as a form of creature worship. Some groups of Mennonites won’t sing the Star Spangled Banner because of the song’s militaristic overtones.

Personally, I don’t care for either the Pledge because I find it silly to pledge my allegiance to a flag. My allegiance is to God and to his Church. I also don’t like the militiarism in the Star Spangled Banner. I would prefer America the Beautiful.

Peace,
 
Legal_Eagle said:
The Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t say the pledge or sing patriotic songs or celebrate birthdays because they see it as a form of creature worship. Some groups of Mennonites won’t sing the Star Spangled Banner because of the song’s militaristic overtones.

Personally, I don’t care for either the Pledge because I find it silly to pledge my allegiance to a flag. My allegiance is to God and to his Church. I also don’t like the militiarism in the Star Spangled Banner. I would prefer America the Beautiful.

Peace,
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I agree with Legal Eagle on all points. Good post!
 
While there is no “official” stance concerning the pledge, Friends typically do not recite it…and many of us…do not stand and place our hands over our hearts.

I will usually stand out of respect to those around me…but I do not place my hand over my heart nor do I recite the pledge…and depending on the situation I find myself…I may not stand if I feel “an opening” of the Spirit to not do so.

We are members of another Kingdom, who’s values are much different. “Pledging” my “allegience” to any earthly kingdom goes against my witness as a Friend. I am a good citizen of my country…“pledging” “allegience” to me does not speak to the fact that my word is enough…no pledge is needed.
 
“I find it silly to pledge my allegiance to a flag” & “I would prefer America the Beautiful” and puppy dogs and butter flies, and everything is all fuzzy and warm. Blah, blah, blah… I find your remarks of being silly to say the pledge offensive. I served under that glorious flag for twenty years and two wars. Do you think God was not there each and every day? God was at the forefront of every day I spent in conflict, God was there every day there was peace. To speak of the pledge of allegiance as being silly is being ignorant of what it really is. I guess the saying “For those who have fought for it, freedom has a special flavor the protected will never know.” is all to true.

Also the Star Spangled Banner is a lesson on the ultimate sacrifices of many that came before you so that you can sit in your cozy home and whine and moan about I don’t like this and I don’t like that and worship the way you want to without persecution. By your statements, you cheapen the memory of those who paid that ultimate sacrifice so that you have freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of speech, freedom to protest, right to a fair trial, right to vote.

Just think, if it were not for those who are willing to protect the flag, pledge allegiance to it, defend the weak and oppressed, the possibility that in the course of our history it could have come out that YOU could have been arrested and jailed for believing in God and our Lord Jesus Christ had history played out differently.

When I die I will rest peacefully knowing that my coffin is draped by the flag of the United States of America as I go to meet my maker.

Is short I guess it was my choice to serve and protect your rights and the rights of all who are not willing to do it for themselves and who are quick to criticize it. If my rant has been harsh, well I am sorry but it needed to be said. Some folks need to wake up and smell the coffee.
 
wmscott said:
I find your remarks of being silly to say the pledge offensive.
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I honestly don’t give a rip what you think. I’m a working, tax paying, law abiding, Church going adult who is raising my kids to be the same. I’ve earned the right to my opinions the same as you’ve earned the right to yours.

If you’re offended by my reading comments I suggest you don’t read them.

Peace,
 
wmscott said:
“I find it silly to pledge my allegiance to a flag” & “I would prefer America the Beautiful” and puppy dogs and butter flies, and everything is all fuzzy and warm. Blah, blah, blah… I find your remarks of being silly to say the pledge offensive. I served under that glorious flag for twenty years and two wars. Do you think God was not there each and every day? God was at the forefront of every day I spent in conflict, God was there every day there was peace. To speak of the pledge of allegiance as being silly is being ignorant of what it really is. I guess the saying “For those who have fought for it, freedom has a special flavor the protected will never know.” is all to true.
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I highly doubt you, or anyone else, has fought “for the flag”. Nor did anyone “serve under it”. You fought for your country, not a piece of dyed cloth. You served under your commanding officer, not some red, white, and blue fabric made in China. Also, God is not the exclusive property of any nation. So while I believe that God was and is with our troops, He is also with all people. The Sun shines on the good and the wicked, the rains fall on both. I will be a good citizen and do what I can to help my country, but I will not swear allegiance to anything or anyone except God.

Lastly, the idea that those who serve in the military are protecting my freedom only really applies when my freedom is actually being threatened. The last few wars, or “conflicts” we’ve gotten ourselves involved in have done nothing to protect my freedoms. How did bombing the hell out of Iraq protect my liberty? Or Vietnam? Or Korea? Honestly, the last war in which I think American’s liberties were being protected was WWII. And coming from a family with a very long military tradition I can say most of my relatives who have served agree with me on this.
 
I hear you, however the Pledge is only a reminder and symbolic for what it stands for. You know, the Declaration of Independence of the 13-colonys or the US-Citizenship contract. Being a tax-payer is all part of it, but living free in this country is where the meaning lies.

When you read the D of I and get to the second half, the magnitude becomes clearer. Of most recent times with the Flag is 9/11. Became a very big thing again, very quickly.

But the actual act of saying the Pledge? I understand why someone might think its corney.

Peace
 
jtodisco said:
I highly doubt you, or anyone else, has fought “for the flag”. Nor did anyone “serve under it”. You fought for your country, not a piece of dyed cloth. You served under your commanding officer, not some red, white, and blue fabric made in China. Also, God is not the exclusive property of any nation. So while I believe that God was and is with our troops, He is also with all people. The Sun shines on the good and the wicked, the rains fall on both. I will be a good citizen and do what I can to help my country, but I will not swear allegiance to anything or anyone except God.

Lastly, the idea that those who serve in the military are protecting my freedom only really applies when my freedom is actually being threatened. The last few wars, or “conflicts” we’ve gotten ourselves involved in have done nothing to protect my freedoms. How did bombing the hell out of Iraq protect my liberty? Or Vietnam? Or Korea? Honestly, the last war in which I think American’s liberties were being protected was WWII. And coming from a family with a very long military tradition I can say most of my relatives who have served agree with me on this.
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My thoughts exactly. I agree with every word.

BTW…I’m fan of Father Barron as well.

Peace,
 
Recent local story re the Pledge of Allegiance:

nems360.com/view/full_story/9800304/article-Lawyer-out-of-jail-after-failing-to–pledge–allegiance?

nems360.com/view/full_story/9809352/article-UPDATE–Law-prof-says-judge-lucky-he-can-t-be-sued-in-Pledge-jailing?

nems360.com/view/full_story/9835864/article-Lampley%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98no-pledge%E2%80%99-jailing-brings-out-strong-reactions?

nems360.com/view/full_story/9866232/article-EDITORIAL–Right-to-be-wrong-Attorney-s-refusal-to-say-pledge-is-baffling–but-no-reason-for-jail?

nems360.com/view/full_story/10491120/article-Pledge-flap-leads-to-reprimand-recommendation-for-judge?

nems360.com/view/full_story/12764996/article-Littlejohn–awarded–over-Pledge-punishment?

nems360.com/view/full_story/14022939/article-Judge-who-jailed-lawyer-over-pledge-faces-reprimand?

No, the lawyer involved is not me.

Peace,
 
Listen I don’t believe anyone stated you should sell Moms Apple Pie or even engage in the Pledge. Is it even a requirement?

I’m just saying there’s a bigger picture. 🤷

Peace
 
Personally, I do not think that the words “under God” should be in the Pledge because in a pluralistic nation it implies that all non-Christian gods and goddess are equal to the Christian God, the same goes with having " In God We Trust" on the coinage.
 
I find the practice odd and do not pledge allegiance to the flag, whatever that means. I find it more odd that so many Christians find it so important to pledge allegiance to the flag and have their kids do it each day. How often do we pledge allegiance to God? Depending on the church you might only do it at your or your child’s baptism. It seems to me we ought to be pledging allegiance to God far more often than a flag. Until that day I would not even consider saying the pledge to the flag.

I also dont understand why conservatives love the pledge so much. Do they not know it was written by a socialist? Do they not know the point of it was to indoctrinate school kids into being obedient servants of the state and corporate powers? Do they not know that being an obedient servant of the state meant the family was second in authority to the state? Do they not know how the pledge was first done? You would extend the arm in a Nazi like salute. Do they not know they pledge allegiance to a country that makes war on the world, creates and protects a right to murder babies, prohibits the name of Christ from being said at government events and in many and various ways does everything contrary to what they believe?

http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/files/2011/06/american-school-children-bellamy-salute.jpg

American kids doing a nice little Nazi style salute.
hn160 said:
Personally, I do not think that the words “under God” should be in the Pledge because in a pluralistic nation it implies that all non-Christian gods and goddess are equal to the Christian God, the same goes with having " In God We Trust" on the coinage.
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I agree for the reason that there is no evidence at all that America is currently living as if it is under God’s sovereign power. For Christians to insist on this is an insult to God’s providence.
 
exnihilo said:
I find the practice odd and do not pledge allegiance to the flag, whatever that means. I find it more odd that so many Christians find it so important to pledge allegiance to the flag and have their kids do it each day. How often do we pledge allegiance to God? Depending on the church you might only do it at your or your child’s baptism. It seems to me we ought to be pledging allegiance to God far more often than a flag. Until that day I would not even consider saying the pledge to the flag.

I also dont understand why conservatives love the pledge so much. Do they not know it was written by a socialist? Do they not know the point of it was to indoctrinate school kids into being obedient servants of the state and corporate powers? Do they not know that being an obedient servant of the state meant the family was second in authority to the state? Do they not know how the pledge was first done? You would extend the arm in a Nazi like salute. Do they not know they pledge allegiance to a country that makes war on the world, creates and protects a right to murder babies, prohibits the name of Christ from being said at government events and in many and various ways does everything contrary to what they believe?

http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/files/2011/06/american-school-children-bellamy-salute.jpg

American kids doing a nice little Nazi style salute.

I agree for the reason that there is no evidence at all that America is currently living as if it is under God’s sovereign power. For Christians to insist on this is an insult to God’s providence.
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I understand that when the similarity between the Nazi salute and the Pledge salute was seen during WWII, the practice of the “Nazi salute” was discontinued.
 
exnihilo said:
I find the practice odd and do not pledge allegiance to the flag, whatever that means. I find it more odd that so many Christians find it so important to pledge allegiance to the flag and have their kids do it each day. How often do we pledge allegiance to God? Depending on the church you might only do it at your or your child’s baptism. It seems to me we ought to be pledging allegiance to God far more often than a flag. Until that day I would not even consider saying the pledge to the flag.

I also dont understand why conservatives love the pledge so much. Do they not know it was written by a socialist? Do they not know the point of it was to indoctrinate school kids into being obedient servants of the state and corporate powers? Do they not know that being an obedient servant of the state meant the family was second in authority to the state? Do they not know how the pledge was first done? You would extend the arm in a Nazi like salute. Do they not know they pledge allegiance to a country that makes war on the world, creates and protects a right to murder babies, prohibits the name of Christ from being said at government events and in many and various ways does everything contrary to what they believe?

http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/files/2011/06/american-school-children-bellamy-salute.jpg

American kids doing a nice little Nazi style salute.

I agree for the reason that there is no evidence at all that America is currently living as if it is under God’s sovereign power. For Christians to insist on this is an insult to God’s providence.
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Pledge to God “prayer” was Banned in 62, as I see you would like the Flag Banned. What else would like to ban.

What does Nazi in the 1940’s have to do with American in 1700??? I fail to see connection. I would think you have this inverted.

What does God have to do with the Flag? Hey Coptic, another one who never read Bellarmine:D I’m not even goin to tell you, you’ll have to go read.
 
I certainly don’t have a problem with the pledge of allegiance. I say it every morning with my students. It’s obvious to me that we aren’t literally pledgeing to the actual cloth flag, but to the nation it represents. I’m glad that the “under God” bit is in there as well because to me, it illustrates that as long as my country is under God, I will be loyal to it, but in instances where it isn’t (such as the kind others have mentioned in this thread) my first loyalty is to God.
 
Allegra said:
I certainly don’t have a problem with the pledge of allegiance. I say it every morning with my students. It’s obvious to me that we aren’t literally pledgeing to the actual cloth flag, but to the nation it represents. I’m glad that the “under God” bit is in there as well because to me, it illustrates that as long as my country is under God, I will be loyal to it, but in instances where it isn’t (such as the kind others have mentioned in this thread) my first loyalty is to God.
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You know I didn’t know if was used anymore. I talked to my grandson this morning who started Kindergarden this week. He also confirmed what your saying. He told me he’s not shy anymore. I said no, your not scared anymore, that lasted one day. 🙂

Peace
 
C_the_K said:
What denominations don’t stand for or say the Pleg of allegiance, sing the national anthem? And why?
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There is no Pleg of allegiance.
Why would the national anthem be sung by members of a universal church in their own church?

There is always orthodoxy for feeling national pride at church however.
 
I don’t believe what I’m reading here.

Anyone who thinks the last Just War was World War II has not been paying attention. America’s military has been at war with militant Islam for almost 40 years, while the rest of America has been at the mall, oblivious to all the pain and death absorbed by their neighbors’ family members.

We were attacked on 9/11 specifically because Bin Laden thought that we were a paper tiger that wouldn’t fight back. Given what I’m seeing here, no wonder he had that assumption.

I pledge allegiance to the flag and the country, because I am well aware of what has happened to our soldiers who wear that flag on their uniform. Our anthem is a testament to protecting our home against a superior invading force in a fight that lasted more than two days. We were so fractured that some people thought we had lost and would surrender, until the smoke cleared, and “our flag was still there”.

http://0.tqn.com/d/seniortravel/1/0/E/5/-/-/WWIIMemMarshallQuote400x300.jpg

Those who have never risked losing their freedom will never appreciate it.
 
True, but that is not the first time America has seen an ally turn rouge. We cannot control how other leaders stay in power, but we can control how they leave power.

Iraq was a sentinel of progress, a lone republic surrounded by monarchies. Given Iran’s activity, it only made sense. There are some times when we simply have to deal with reality.
 
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