Plenary Indulgence and Attachment to Sin

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Hello,

I asked this in the “ask an apologist” section, but I never get answers when I ask questions there, so I’m re-posting here.

I have tried to say several plenary indulgences for family member whom I hope are not in Hell. While doing so, I can’t help but wonder, how does a person detach himself or herself from sin? If we are all subject to concupiscence from original sin, how are we then detached from sin? If we cannot detach ourselves from sin, then what is the point in a plenary indulgence?

Thanks!
 
Thank you for the response. I am specifically asking about the requirement “It is further required that all attachment to sin, even venial sin, be absent. If the latter disposition is in any way less than perfect or if the prescribed three conditions are not fulfilled, the indulgence will be partial only, saving the provisions given in Norms 34 and 35.” for obtaining a plenary indulgence.

This, to me, means complete detachment from sin. No one, from my understanding is completely detached from sin due to concupiscence. I suppose directly after absolution, you are completely detached, but most people are not. An alcoholic, for example, may be forgiven of the sin after absolution. He/She may even be resolved never to drink again, but the until that person is completely healed of the alcoholism, he/she is not detached from the sin. You can apply this argument to any sin that you regularly deal with (i.e. gluttony, cursing, using the Lord’s name loosely, etc…)
 
Jingles said:
Thank you for the response. I am specifically asking about the requirement “It is further required that all attachment to sin, even venial sin, be absent. If the latter disposition is in any way less than perfect or if the prescribed three conditions are not fulfilled, the indulgence will be partial only, saving the provisions given in Norms 34 and 35.” for obtaining a plenary indulgence.

This, to me, means complete detachment from sin. No one, from my understanding is completely detached from sin due to concupiscence. I suppose directly after absolution, you are completely detached, but most people are not. An alcoholic, for example, may be forgiven of the sin after absolution. He/She may even be resolved never to drink again, but the until that person is completely healed of the alcoholism, he/she is not detached from the sin. You can apply this argument to any sin that you regularly deal with (i.e. gluttony, cursing, using the Lord’s name loosely, etc…)
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My understanding is a little simpler. We have a natural inclination towards sin, owing to concupiscence. Being detached doesn’t mean that you haven’t committed sin since your last confession. Rather it means that you have truly resolved to attempt to live a sin free life, even those minor annoying little sins. Do you like to stand around and gossip with your friends? Do like to take an extended coffee break while still technically “on the clock” ? Do you go out of your way to make sure your boss notices you, even if that involves making others look bad? Oddly, its not the occasional event as much as it is the willingness to continue doing it that is the “attachment”. If you get in a conversation with some friends and the conversation turns to gossip and you participate, without thinking much about it then later realize you shouldn’t have done that because someone’s reputation was damaged, that isn’t an attachment. An attachment is wanting to meet your co-workers at the water cooler so you can gossip with them. So it is more the intent to give up the sin rather then the success at doing so.
 
=Jingles;8864387]Hello,
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I asked this in the “ask an apologist” section, but I never get answers when I ask questions there, so I’m re-posting here.
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I have tried to say several plenary indulgences for family member whom I hope are not in Hell. While doing so, I can’t help but wonder, how does a person detach himself or herself from sin? If we are all subject to concupiscence from original sin, how are we then detached from sin? If we cannot detach ourselves from sin, then what is the point in a plenary indulgence?
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Thanks!
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That my friend is a couple of heavy weight questions:)

Indulgences are the “payback” for the natural consequences to sin. ALL sins have an often unseen effect on the world around us.

Because each of us must be perfected to be granted enrtry into the Divien Presence; the church has and is PERMITTED BY GOD to make available to us a manner in which this payback can be accomplished.

EACH of the following references Purgatory, which is sort of a "soul-wash} for the yet to be paid back, or still due pay back of our sins.

**Rev. 21: 27 **“But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”

Mt. 5: 26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

Matt.5: 48 “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Heb. 2: 10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.

**1 Cor. 3: 13-14 **“each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done if the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, [Purgatory] though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Indulgences are of two types: partial and plennary [complete]. Each has its own conditions and requirements to earn or merit them. A Pleanary Indulgece removes and pays in full ALL of this necessary payback that remains even after a good confession. Fogiveness of our sins is a seperate issue.

Because God desire to be in a Personal relationship with us is FAR, Far, greater thatn our desire to be in one with Him, God allows the church to grant these paybacks. The “Last rites” which as a rule include Confession works like Baptism and removes BOTH all of our sins and the entire payback debt fro our souls. So if one received rhe Fianl Annointing and dies W/O futher sins goes directly to heaven.

In dulgences can be for our selves or for deceased souls. But not for other living souls.

Because we are “naturally” prone to sin, and ONLY Grace lessens that temptation, but does not remove it; there remains a real need for a method of soul cleansing. The Church and God have the same motive. get more souls into heaven!👍

I hope this adds to your understanding?

God Bless,
Pat
 
Jbarbarette - That was my take on it too. Then I read this catholic.org/clife/prayers/indulgc.php. Half way down under the heading “The Toughest Requirement” is a blurb about this very topic. It got me thinking about attachment to sin in another way. I mean, am I really detached? What do you think?
 
Thanks PJM. Is the bit about the Last Rites being absolution and plenary indulgence in the CCC? If so, do you know where?

I’m still a little fuzzy on the full detachment from sin thing. I mean, in all reality, just because we don’t want to sin again, doesn’t really detach us from the attraction we feel towards certain sins. I think of music, for example. There are plenty of songs that I like, that evoke feelings, that are anything from wholesome. I stay away from them because I know that they are sinful, but it doesn’t take away the sinful desire that I have toward them. I think that many people have that same problem with food. Yes, they may think that they are going to eat healthier, but it doesn’t remove the lust that they have for unhealthy, large quantities of food.
 
=Jingles;8864844]Thanks PJM. Is the bit about the Last Rites being absolution and plenary indulgence in the CCC? If so, do you know where?
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I’m still a little fuzzy on the full detachment from sin thing. I mean, in all reality, just because we don’t want to sin again, doesn’t really detach us from the attraction we feel towards certain sins. I think of music, for example. There are plenty of songs that I like, that evoke feelings, that are anything from wholesome. I stay away from them because I know that they are sinful, but it doesn’t take away the sinful desire that I have toward them. I think that many people have that same problem with food. Yes, they may think that they are going to eat healthier, but it doesn’t remove the lust that they have for unhealthy, large quantities of food.
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Temptation to sin is an opportunity God permits us to PROVE our fidiality anf love for Him. The sin in NOT in the temptation, but in the assent to it. [Unless we intentionally dwell too long on the T…🙂

1471 The doctrine and practice of indulgences in the Church are closely linked to the effects of the sacrament of Penance.

What is an indulgence?
“An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints.”

“An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part or all of the temporal punishment due to sin.” The faithful can gain indulgences for themselves or apply them to the dead.

1498 Through indulgences the faithful can obtain the remission of temporal punishment resulting from sin for themselves and also for the souls in Purgatory.

1479 Since the faithful departed now being purified are also members of the same communion of saints, one way we can help them is to obtain indulgences for them, so that the temporal punishments due for their sins may be remitted.

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: “Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.” From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:
Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.

1532 The special grace of the sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick has as its effects:
  • the uniting of the sick person to the passion of Christ, for his own good and that of the whole Church;
  • the strengthening, peace, and courage to endure in a Christian manner the sufferings of illness or old age;
  • the forgiveness of sins, if the sick person was not able to obtain it through the sacrament of Penance;
  • the restoration of health, if it is conducive to the salvation of his soul;
  • the preparation for passing over to eternal life.
1523 A preparation for the final journey. If the sacrament of anointing of the sick is given to all who suffer from serious illness and infirmity, even more rightly is it given to those at the point of departing this life; so it is also called sacramentum exeuntium (the sacrament of those departing). The Anointing of the Sick completes our conformity to the death and Resurrection of Christ, just as Baptism began it. It completes the holy anointings that mark the whole Christian life: that of Baptism which sealed the new life in us, and that of Confirmation which strengthened us for the combat of this life. This last anointing fortifies the end of our earthly life like a solid rampart for the final struggles before entering the Father’s house.

1421 The Lord Jesus Christ, physician of our souls and bodies, who forgave the sins of the paralytic and restored him to bodily health, has willed that his Church continue, in the power of the Holy Spirit, his work of healing and salvation, even among her own members. This is the purpose of the two sacraments of healing: the sacrament of Penance and the sacrament of Anointing of the Sick.

God Bless,
Pat
 
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