Plural marriage

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I have a niece, who along with her husband, have decided to add a third person (a woman) to their marriage. They are both Catholic, were married in the Catholic Church and have 2 children, both in grade school. Both are intelligent human beings and aside from this devastating behavior, seem to be happy with this choice. The kids, on the other hand seem to be very confused and it has come out in some angry confrontations with other kids in school. I had heard hints of their behavior but thought nothing of it till they showed up at my mother’s house for a family event with this third person. My mother was extremely upset. I would like to start a conversation with these two in the hope that they will see their current behavior in a less than healthy light. The husband views himself as super intelligent so if I use the word “wrong” or “evil” in any sentence, the conversation will be over. The object here is to get them to listen. I pray for them and their kids. Any advice on how to approach them would be appreciated.
 
Are they practicing Catholics who belong to a parish? Is there a priest who knows about this?
 
If this situation is present, they are obviously not practicing Catholics. Your best advise would come from a Priest.
 
I have a niece, who along with her husband, have decided to add a third person (a woman) to their marriage. They are both Catholic, were married in the Catholic Church and have 2 children, both in grade school. Both are intelligent human beings and aside from this devastating behavior, seem to be happy with this choice. The kids, on the other hand seem to be very confused and it has come out in some angry confrontations with other kids in school. I had heard hints of their behavior but thought nothing of it till they showed up at my mother’s house for a family event with this third person. My mother was extremely upset. I would like to start a conversation with these two in the hope that they will see their current behavior in a less than healthy light. The husband views himself as super intelligent so if I use the word “wrong” or “evil” in any sentence, the conversation will be over. The object here is to get them to listen. I pray for them and their kids. Any advice on how to approach them would be appreciated.
If your Mother agrees tell them two’s company and three’s a crowd and don’t show up again at Mom’s house with the second woman.
 
They do come to Mass on occasion with their kids. And yes, they do receive Communion. The husband has made a point of saying he is a man of God but is open to other ideas. Their son received his First Communion a couple of years ago. Their daughter just turned 7. I might talk to our priest and see if he can give me some kind of clue as to how to start the conversation.
 
They are doing terrible damage to their child.
Make sure they understand this, and implore them to see their priest.
And pray. HARD.
 
I’d suggest a passage of scripture for them to read and let them hear Christ’s own words on the nature of marriage. Matthew 19:5-6.
 
Christ made marriage monogamous, it’s in the Gospel. Polygamy is serious matter in the Catechism.
 
There may be excuses on account of individual frailty, but there’s no way to excuse or justify triangles per se, or reconcile them with Christianity. This is not a ceremonial rule, of course, it involves evil and chaos.
 
Exactly what does, “Adding a 3rd person to the marriage” mean? Kind of hard to know without knowing the individuals. But on the surface it appears they have a polygamous household and are practitioners in the BDSM life style. Just come out and ask your niece if her husband is one of those “daddy dom” types or if the third woman is a “slave.” Yes it will confuse the children and lead them down a very dark path once they understand this life style.

If this is what’s happening, you’re probably better off letting them go on matter how nice they seem. Just because they go to church sometimes and receive communion mean anything if they don’t believe in and live by God’s word. There’s no place in the church for these “other ideas.” The church has plenty of reprobates. Don’t forget God destroyed two cities for this type of behavior.
 
I’d like to know some more detail about this situation and what “adding a third person to the marriage” means. Now, polygamy is not actually legal in the US but certainly there are those who claim to be polygamists, does your niece’s husband claim to be one? Or do they just have an “open” marriage? Since the two situations, while similar on the surface, usually are the result of very different worldviews.

Or perhaps it is more accurate to say, the underlying point may be the same, that humans, or at the least, male humans, were not meant to be monogamous, but the rationalizations are very different.

I actually recall a Muslim woman defending polygamy on CAF, stating as a fact that “if a man cannot take another wife, he will take a mistress” and that it is better for that woman to be a second wife, not a mistress with no rights at all. I have also seen Muslims argue, again assuming it’s impossible for men to be faithful, that polygamy actually protects the first wife from being abandoned, and is superior to the current state of marriage in most non-Muslim countries.

There are also fundamentalist Mormons who are polygamists, and I know they are not technically Christian. But they will often claim that the Bible supports polygamy. Well, scratch that, they claim the Bible supports polygyny, that is, 1 husband with multiple wives. They will use mostly OT passages to support this, and object to the “yes God allowed it but didn’t endorse it and it caused a lot of problems” by pointing out, for example, that God specifically tells David that he gave him everything he had including his wives and concubines. I have also seen them use the “a bishop must be husband of one wife” NT passage to conclude, that the only reason anyone would point out this qualification for a bishop, is if it was common for men to have more than one wife.

However, most polygamists do not consider themselves to be sexually liberal. Many who justify polygamy for religious reasons, also state they expect people to be chaste until marriage. Most express disgust at the idea of a man having sex with more than one wife at the same time. They certainly do not at all sexualize the relationships between the “sister wives”.

But, it is hard to tell from the OP, if this “third person” is meant to be the husband’s “second wife” or if they see themselves as being in a threesome with the “second woman” having sex with both of them. People who indulge in threesomes often are interested in other permutations of sex, though I’m not sure I’d go as far as to say they are all involved in the BDSM lifestyle. If this is the case they will probably state that the Church is “behind the times” when it comes to sex, and would not be too interested in Biblical arguments.

Unfortunately, the OP may not know the details either. I certainly agree that whatever the justification for this behavior, the effect on the children is still going to be terrible.
 
I actually recall a Muslim woman defending polygamy on CAF, stating as a fact that “if a man cannot take another wife, he will take a mistress” and that it is better for that woman to be a second wife, not a mistress with no rights at all. I have also seen Muslims argue, again assuming it’s impossible for men to be faithful, that polygamy actually protects the first wife from being abandoned, and is superior to the current state of marriage in most non-Muslim countries.
There’s a bit more to polygamy historically than presumption that men can’t stay faithful. It has more to do with economy and, indeed, ensuring the maintenance of someone who would otherwise be abandoned.

Anyway, I can easily imagine a Christian woman telling herself: ‘If I don’t accept his mistress, he will abandon me. If I invite her into the triangle, I can at least retain some control.’ Obviously works for a man too. Bisexuality (which is not a straightforward 0/1 thing) complicates matters a bit if both spouses are actually attracted to the stranger.

In any case, Christian marriage is not about fulfilling one’s fantasies etc.
 
There’s a bit more to polygamy historically than presumption that men can’t stay faithful. It has more to do with economy and, indeed, ensuring the maintenance of someone who would otherwise be abandoned.
Well, I’ve also read that one of the likely practical reasons for polygamy, and specifically, polygyny, in Muslim countries at least in the Middle East, is that the region had so many wars back then, that men got killed in battle at a very high rate, so there was a very unequal female : male ratio, leaving many women without any means of support.

However, though certainly there’s still a lot of war going in that region, I doubt the male-female ratio is so bad these days that it justifies polygyny still being a practice. And it is not a justification I have heard from most Muslims themselves.

Although, unlike the FLDS, polygyny is not considered a requirement for Muslims, just an option, and comes with the caveat the husband must be able to financially support each wife equally, so only the richest people can afford more than one anyway. Most Muslims I know personally are of South Asia or Indonesian background and seem to see polygamy as an old fashioned outdated custom that’s just not relevant to their own lives. But on the other hand there was some self-selection going on, I assume they knew when they immigrated to the US that polygamy was illegal.
Anyway, I can easily imagine a Christian woman telling herself: ‘If I don’t accept his mistress, he will abandon me. If I invite her into the triangle, I can at least retain some control.’ Obviously works for a man too. Bisexuality (which is not a straightforward 0/1 thing) complicates matters a bit if both spouses are actually attracted to the stranger.
In any case, Christian marriage is not about fulfilling one’s fantasies etc.
Also, regarding polygamy as an alternative to abandoning the first wife, I can think of a really disturbing book I flipped through once in an airport that had a little bookstore. It was about a little girl growing up with her parents, siblings, and a mentally disabled woman who she was told was a distant relative of her mother’s - and that might even have been true, but it was not the whole story. She later found out that the woman was actually her father’s ex-wife, who was in a terrible accident that left her brain-damaged.

Now I’m not sure what the exact circumstances were here, I didn’t actually buy the book and I had to leave the bookstore to catch my flight. It seemed that the girl’s father was still married to the first wife at the time of the accident, and felt obligated to take care of her for the rest of her life in her own household But apparently, NOT obligated to actually stay faithful to her.

The girl noticed that the woman, while barely verbal, seemed very sad and unhappy all the time. Well, of course she’d be! I felt horrible for this poor woman, assuming she still had some memory of her prior life with her husband, to be forced to live with her ex-husband, new wife, and their kids, and be unable to do anything about her lot in life, due to her disability.

And since the little girl herself still saw her father as a great guy for not shipping her off to an institution, she was apparently forced to deal with everyone around her expecting her to be grateful that her ex-husband was still taking care of her.

Now this wasn’t technically polygamy as the guy divorced the first wife before marrying the second one, and maybe it was still better for the first wife than being institutionalized, but I certainly wouldn’t consider it an ideal state of affairs to aspire to.

ETA: I realized I forgot to tell you the book was in the NON Fiction / Memoir section meaning a real person actually suffered in this situation.
 
I think you are fighting a losing battle to initiate a discussion with two people who have not invited your (name removed by moderator)ut.

If you can talk to your niece one on one without her husband, you may be able to get to the bottom of the story.

If you believe the children are in danger, call child services.
 
I think you are fighting a losing battle to initiate a discussion with two people who have not invited your (name removed by moderator)ut.

If you can talk to your niece one on one without her husband, you may be able to get to the bottom of the story.

If you believe the children are in danger, call child services.
Well, I think the question here is also, even if the OP doesn’t try to convince them to stop what they’re doing, how is he supposed to treat them? How he is supposed to treat the “third person”? Simply accept the situation and treat the woman as a legitimate member of the family who deserves to be invited to all family events?

Oftentimes, the advice in such situations even on CAF, is to “accept everyone with love” and pretend nothing is amiss, since the alternative is to risk a permanent damage to the relationship, that certainly seems to be popular advice for people who post “my loved one wants to bring a same-sex partner to family events”, so how is “my loved one wants to bring a mistress to family events” any different?

I suppose it also depends on whether the niece actually accepts this situation and is having sex with the “third person” herself, or isn’t actually into it, but is “accepting” the situation because she finds that a better alternative to confronting her husband.
 
In reply to the questions about what a third person in the marriage means…He (the husband) is very openly affectionate with the woman. We saw them with his kids, while shopping and they were very affectionate with each other. This woman seems very happy with this arrangement. The seven year old girl ran to us to give me a hug and her Dad pulled her away without a word to us and continued walking. The look on the little girl’s face was heartbreaking. I keep praying for the family but I keep coming back to having a conversation with them. I am very much a person who believes you have to meet people where they are at and not where you wish they would be. I am having trouble figuring out how to start the conversation.
 
I think before you “meet people where they’re at” you need to find out where exactly that is.

You mention your nephew-in-law and “other woman” seem happy, but the kids do not. Do you have any idea what your niece thinks, though. As chevalier mentioned, it is possible for a wife to tolerate this kind of situation, not because she finds a threesome sexy or whatever, but because she finds it better than confronting the husband and risk losing him completely.

That would be a completely different situation than if she actually enjoys threesome relationships herself, and sees the situation as a “group marriage” with the “second wife” being “married” to herself as well as her husband.
 
That’s a good point. Any thoughts on whether I should talk to both at the same time or just my niece…
 
That’s a good point. Any thoughts on whether I should talk to both at the same time or just my niece…
Assuming you are closer to the niece than her husband, I would recommend speaking to her first. From how you have described him he comes across as an arrogant man who thinks he knows better than anyone, and I can see him taking over the discussion and browbeating you, and the niece feeling obligated to stand with him, if she feels forced to choose one over the other.

I would certainly NOT chastise your niece before finding out if she is A-OK with this situation or not. Especially as she may be a victim more than an accomplice. For I find it frankly abusive, for a husband to force a wife to tolerate him openly keeping a mistress - and this woman might actually just be a mistress, as it seems the husband has not actually introduced her to anyone as his wife.
 
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