Poem of the Man-God

[Insight]

There is an important lesson to be learned from Saul and renowned Mariologist Father Gabriel Roschini.

“And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: It is hard for thee to kick against the goads.” (KJV Acts 9:1-5)

Renowned Mariologist Father Gabriel Roschini, OSM was commissioned to use his expertise to refute the Poem. In his book: ““The Virgin Mary In The Writings of Maria Valtorta”, he detailed how he aggressively pursued this task, only to come to the conclusion that they were authentic. Another Saul to Paul story.

 

[adrift]

You are the one who sees what they want to.

Go back to your web sites you have mistaken todays date as the publish date of the letter.

I am only able to copy one and part of the other.

POPE ANNOUNCES A REFORM; Congregation of the Index Abolished as Separate Congregation.
**March 23, 1917, Friday
**
Page 9, 165 words

The first paragraph is not available for this article.

view full articleNote: This article will open in PDF format. Get Adobe Acrobat Reader

Your second link on the bottom reads Published: March 23, 1917
Copyright © The New York Times

So yes you misunderstood and applied a date that was only meant to be today’s date. You are quoting a 91-year-old document. You also have a misunderstanding about imprimaturs.
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2Q.HTM

Canon Law 824 –832 deal with it I will only quote from two

Can. 824 §1. Unless it is established otherwise, the local ordinary whose permission or approval to publish books must be sought according to the canons of this title is the proper local ordinary of the author or the ordinary of the place where the books are published.
Can. 829 The approval or permission to publish some work is valid for the original text but not for new editions or translations of the same.

§3. A censor must give his or her opinion in writing; if it is favorable, the ordinary, according to his own prudent judgment, is to grant permission for publication to take place, with his name and the time and place of the permission granted expressed. If he does not grant permission, the ordinary is to communicate the reasons for the denial to the author of the work.

Than Adrift, “The Bible cannot be taken literally” Our faith is in vain. Do you realize what you said?

Again you are misunderstanding, I did not say you could not take the Bible literally I said

Revelation is written in symbols and cannot be taken literally.

[1948] Pope Pius XII: Granted permission to publish
No permission is given confirmed by Bishop Roman Danylak.

[1959] Pope John XXIII: Signed the decree placing the Poem on the Index The poem had been condemned in 1949.
[1966] Pope Paul VI: Abolishes the Index, thus nullifying John XXIII’s action nope nothing was nullified As confirmed by Pope Pope Benedict XVI
[1966] Pope Paul VI: Abrogated the Canon (1385) that was the legal principle for the inclusion on the Index but not the moral force
[1974] Pope Paul VI: Expresses his appreciation of a commentary to Maria Valtorta’s Unproven
[1992] Pope John Paul II: Beatifies an outspoken supporter of Maria Valtorta vague claim and has no bearing. What is not understood is that a person made a saint does not endorse all that they have done. If you mean Gabriele Allegra he was made Venerable not beatified. Venerable means his case has been open.

 

[adrift]

Have you read the document? Or have you just read comments from others.

Did you note that the document called it the “worst crime”.

The anti-catholics gleefully used this document out of context according to the spokesman for the US Conference of Bishops, Monsignor Francis Maniscalco, and that it was meant to deal only with religious crimes and to shield Church members from any scandal. "This is a system of law which is complete in itself and is not telling the bishops in any way about how to handle these crimes when they are considered as civil crimes. But if it degrades someone who is opposed to this fiction than anything can be said. As the catechism says

Quote:
2477
Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.278 He becomes guilty:

• of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;

• of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;279

• of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.

As far as the Cardinal Ottaviani Directive, I’ll stick with God: Mark 9:42 – “And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.”

And if you fail to consider that document demonic, and it didn’t make your blood boil, it means one of three things; you do not have children, you didn’t read it, or you’re part of the problem.

Why did you misquote the bible the verse reads

42
"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe (in me) to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were put around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.
43

Offend is not the same as sin.

 

[adrift]

Because you just took away from the Description of Jesus saying His appearance cannot be taken literally. This description of Jesus is taken literally. Most do not realize this but in Rome they do. That’s where it counts. In Rome the Seat of The Churches Authority. Jesus is not Brown haired.

The Church is the one that I learned about scripture.
The Catechism 109 - 137
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect1chpt2.htm

109
In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.75
110
In order to discover the sacred authors’ intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking, and narrating then current. "For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression."76

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the Apocalypse belongs to a class of literature dealing with eschatological subjects. The Apocalypse or Revelation using a lot of imagery. So when it says

14
The hair of his head was as white as white wool or as snow.

usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation1.htm
What the author intention is to say as footnoted in the New American Bible. This follows Church teaching.

13 [14] Hair . . . as white as white wool or as snow: Christ is eternal, clothed with the dignity that belonged to the “Ancient of Days”; cf Rev 1:18; Daniel 7:9. His eyes were like a fiery flame: Christ is portrayed as all-knowing; cf Rev 2:23; Psalm 7:10; Jeremiah 17:10; and similar expressions in Rev 2:18; 19:12; cf Daniel 10:6.

Otherwise you would have to say that Jesus is a real lamb that has seven horns and seven eyes
Rev 5:6

6
Then I saw standing in the midst of the throne and the four living creatures and the elders, a Lamb that seemed to have been slain. He had seven horns and seven eyes; these are the (seven) spirits of God sent out into the whole world.

Or is that what you contend?

 

[adrift]

Detractor

to diminish the importance, value, or effectiveness of something

I don’t believe and neither does the Church that this book is anything but fiction.

Why do you feel the need to name call?

I said that this book has only produced bad and you haven’t proved me wrong.

 

[BVXI]

Adrift,

That’s the kicker, He’s is the Lamb of God. St. John’s Gospel

He’s the sheep to the slaughter. Isaiah

Read the whole chapter on your own, I guess you can say this is symbolism?

Prophecy of Ezekiel Chapter 10

1 And saw and behold in the firmament that was over the heads of the cherubims, there appeared over them as it were the sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne. 2 And he spoke to the man, that was clothed with linen, and said: Go in between the wheels that are under the cherubims and fill thy hand with the coals of fire that are between the cherubims, and pour them out upon the city. And he went in, in my sight: 3 And the cherubims stood on the right side of the house, when the man went in, and a cloud filled the inner court. 4 And the glory of the Lord was lifted up from above the cherub to the threshold of the house: and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was filled with the brightness of the glory of the Lord. 5 And the sound of the wings of the cherubims was heard even to the outward court as the voice of God Almighty speaking.

6 And when he had commanded the man that was clothed with linen, saying: Take fire from the midst of the wheels that are between the cherubims: he went in and stood beside the wheel, 7 And one cherub stretched out his arm from the midst of the cherubims to the fire that was between the cherubims: and he took, and put it into the hands of him that was clothed with linen: who took it and went forth. 8 And there appeared in the cherubims the likeness of a man’s hand under their wings. 9 And I saw, and behold there were four wheels by the cherubims: one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels was to the sight like the chrysolite stone: 10 And as to their appearance, all four were alike: as if a wheel were in the midst of a wheel.

11 And when they went, they went by four ways: and they turned not when they went: but to the place whither they first turned, the rest also followed, and did not turn back. 12 And their whole body, and their necks, and their hands, and their wings, and the circles were full of eyes, round about the four wheels. 13 And these wheels he called voluble, in my hearing. 14 And every one had four faces: one face was the face of a cherub, and the second face, the face of a man: and in the third was the face of a lion: and in the fourth the face of an eagle. 15 And the cherubims were lifted up: this is the living creature that I had seen by the river Chobar.

 

[BVXI]

adrift,

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to make known to his servants the things which must shortly come to pass: and signified, sending by his angel to his servant John,

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace be unto you and peace from him that is, and that was, and that is to come, and from the seven spirits which are before his throne, 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth, who hath loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

13 And in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks, one like to the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the feet, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as in a burning furnace. And his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars. And from his mouth came out a sharp two edged sword: and his face was as the sun shineth in his power. 17 And when I had seen him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying: Fear not. I am the First and the Last, 18 And alive, and was dead, and behold I am living for ever and ever, and have the keys of death and of hell. 19 Write therefore the things which thou hast seen, and which are, and which must be done hereafter. 20 The mystery of the seven stars, which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches. And the seven candlesticks are the seven churches.

I guess St.John’s talking to a ghost? It’s certainly not an angel.

Better read carefully.

Peace

 

[BVXI]

adrift

You certainly got angry over nothing.

I just pointed to you about Benedict seeing the reality of the Index.
Which you over looked. See the lesson there was did you see the underlying pinion? No, you squabbled about Dates!
Shows where your mind and heart are focused. This is how God works in the Bible. He is beneath the words, in the words as Spirit.
And that is Proof! The proof is standing right in front of your eyes
but you cannot see. Rather you are only out to Prove Your Point as I stated earlier. You do not have a Universal Mentality.
Only A Mono-Versal one. No openness. Just scared. Afraid.
Be not afraid is what Jesus says over and over. Fear is of the Devil. Going about to condemn is of the Devil. Spirit of condemnation. You should leave well enough alone. and go about your business which you have no idea about. Which you do not.

Catholic means Universal.
Christian means follower of Christ.
Church means body of believers.

Catholic Christian Church. These are in the Catechism.

You’re just an angry out to prove something ain’t quite right person
and in vain.

You can walk with God or walk with letters.

And quite frankly you were the one who made all these rash detracting comments about Poem. How would you like it if I told you that your house is horrible and it is consequently condemned? That the windows and panes are full of lead paint?
The walls are infested with termites? But in reality it isn’t.
Think from that stand point before you put your foot in your mouth.
And you have not read Revelations to understand the symbolic parts with the real parts.

When the angel is speaking to John is that considered symbolic
and not to be taken literally? When Jesus is speaking to His Church at Ephesus, and the others, is that symoblic and not to be taken literally? Bonk! Wrong!

That’s exactly what you detractors do to Poem. And from those who have never read the entire 5 volumes. And you do not know what really happened, just bits and pieces. Not a full formulation of the whole Picture. And you are not good critics because you have not Read Them. Nor any of her Writings. So please refrain from making any further bad comments which is poison for those who really know the Difference. It’s like you trying to convert
a non-christian saying oh, Jesus is real! He’s present in the Eucharist in Bread and Wine. Try to look at it from this perspective. You are not a good judge.

You all continue to repeat in vain, what is already common knowledge at the Holy Office, and that is Maria’s works are accepted for all the Faithful to receive and read. In fact, they discourage those who are not well able to handle such deep truths. Because they are deeper truths. We grow in stages.
As babes first. I Peter

The first page of Poem is a whopper! You would not comprehend it. I didn’t. It was way beyond my understanding because God is sublime. Only in Heaven will I fully grasp God’s Fullness.

God knows how to feed His children and He see’s exactly where each soul is in everything! God is bounty.

God who is so high in knowledge and wisdom decided to speak
on His level, no mortal would understand a word. Isaiah 55

That is what you are dealing with in Poem. Higher knowledge.
Wisdom of God.

The Gospels in the current canon are written thus so ordinary people can read it. It still takes time to comprehend. A conversion must take place in the soul in order to comprehend
the words written. The mind can easily be persuaded once the soul is in full recognition. Also, your mind is reading along too! Poem takes you deeper into Gods Truths. His Mind. Not only this but Shows what Jesus is “Love and caring.” Also, the lives
of all the apostles, and the Blessed Mother.

two phrases Jesus uses in the Gospels to describe Himself to us:
1 Son of Man
2 Son of God

there are others. but that’s another discussion.

Jesus was incarnate, as Fully Man, Fully God. He is the Saint of saints, as Man; He is the King of saints as God and King.

Jesus says: My Words Are Spirit and they are Life. John 6

For God is a Spirit they who adore Him must do so in Spirit and in Truth. Thus mere mortals cannot comprehend God without help from God, to build us, to be able to comprehend Him, thus He sends us the Holy Spirit.

The Bible and anything relating to God can only be comprehended with the soul. The intellectual properties are working according to what God created but without the soul giving light to the knowledge, your mind revolves and thinks in human terms and realities, and not in the spiritual reality. Thus we read:

1 Corinthians 2

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among the perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, neither of the princes of this world that come to nought; 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, a wisdom which is hidden, which God ordained before the world, unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew; for if they had known it, they would never have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But, as it is written: That eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But to us God hath revealed them, by this Spirit. For the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, but the spirit of a man that is in him? So the things also that are of God no man knoweth, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of this world, but the Spirit that is of God; that we may know the things that are given us from God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the learned words of human wisdom; but in the doctrine of the Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the sensual man perceiveth not these things that are of the Spirit of God; for it is foolishness to him, and he cannot understand, because it is spiritually examined. 15 But the spiritual man judgeth all things; and he himself is judged of no man.

I apologize for any hard sentiments, but it is necessary to crack a nut.

Have a good rest of your life in Christ, May He guide you always in truth.

Peace

 

[Insight]

There are several translations, I quoted the King James Version, as I was able to recognize the version cited at the bottom of the article:

blueletterbible.org/Mar/Mar009.html

And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.(Mark 9:42).

I presumed incorrectly that you were aware that there were several text translations of the Bible. In addition, I guess you are also one of those earning the Michael Jackson’s defense team Tony Award:

1962 Vatican Document

cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/06/eveningnews/main566978.shtml

bishop-accountability.org/downloads/CrimenSollicitationes-Unprotected.pdf

advancedchristianity.com/Pages/CBS/Toye.htm

As soon as CBS News uncovered the 1962 Cardinal Ottaviani directive, damage control went into full swing, endeavoring to minimize the document’s role and significance. Understandably, these refutes cleverly omit the actual document for reader analysis and discourage further investigation. The basic facts outlined in the document null any attempt to diminish its grievous impact on child victims. It would be prudent to examine the actual Ottaviani directive very carefully to avoid being deceived by the recent explanatory articles written with the cunning ability of Michael Jackson’s defense team attorneys. The actual directive itself would make any Christian’s blood boil, regarding both the author and those attempting to conceal its true nature. Defenders of this Ottaviani doctrine claim the secrecy is only to maintain the sanctity of the Confessional, notwithstanding that the document clearly broadens the range and scope to before and after Confession on the very first page, which could entail years. Furthermore, articles attempting to diminish the significance of this Ottaviani directive claim that it does not bar the child victims from making separate charges about the priest’s sexual misconduct. On the contrary, in the event the injured party declined absolute secrecy (sought protection and/or justice from the authorities), the directive clearly mandates the molester victims be excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church for life. The Ottaviani directive makes this unmistakably crystal clear throughout the document.

1. It’s immediately obvious that the document was specifically designed to silence the child victims. Any attempt of the victim to communicate the abuse to authorities results in excommunication from the Roman Catholic Church for life.
   Preliminaries – 11 (restrained by perpetual silence)
   Preliminaries – 13 (accuser must be silenced)
   Title 1 – 18 (excommunication)
   Title 1 – 21 (secrecy till death)
   Title 1 – The First Knowledge of the Crime – Paragraph 23 (threaten the victim)
2. The pedophile priest is treated in a protective and opposite manner.
   The Process – Chapter 3 – 48 “The judge should paternally and gently exhort the accused”

The Process – Chapter 3 – 52 “In every way the judge is to remember that it is never right for him to bind the accused by an oath to tell the truth.” But notice that it’s mandatory to bind the victim.

Title 3 – Penalties – 63 (The greatest penalty possible to the pedophile priest found guilty by the outlined tribunal is being reduced to “lay-brother”, and only done when it is considered that there is absolutely no hope of recovery. - Hence the perpetual transfers of pedophile priests and multimillion dollar pay outs)

Title 4 – 67 – (If the pedophile priest is found guilty by the tribunal, he must be transferred)

 Keep in mind that any other institution, upon learning that one of its members is molesting children, would have the God given common sense to contact the authorities. The Ottaviani directive seems to be designed to make the Roman Catholic Church a safe haven for pedophiles, while cleverly and viciously repressing child victims. Notwithstanding Mark 9:42 – "And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea." How could those defending this reprehensible Ottaviani directive consider that this verse would not also apply to them?

As far as the Imprimatur, how may times do you need to be reminded that the Pope is the head of the Church and not subject to detailed rules and regulations set for lower levels of authority?

The Code of Canon Law - Book II, Part II, Section I, Chapter I, Article I - gives the Pope full and supreme power over all levels of the Church and free use to exercise this power. The Papal order came first. Canon law prohibits this Papal order from being reversed by subordinate levels of Church authority. Canon law clearly requires that this Papal order be embraced with unconditional acceptance and submission.

Read carefully to understand Your Hierarchy. First Vatican Council, Session IV, Chp. IV, p.IX - “So, then, if anyone says that the Roman Pontiff has merely an office of supervision and guidance, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, and this not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church dispersed throughout the whole world; or that he has only the principal part, but not the absolute fullness, of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate both over all and each of the Churches and over all and each of the pastors and faithful: let him be anathema.” - Catechism of the Catholic Church, 883 - "The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, as its head.”

 

[BVXI]

adrift,

Just for your amusement and for those who are really interested to know the Truth, here’s a website in Italy that proves what we’ve been saying all along.

If it were condemned as you claim(EWTN EXPERTS) and (Richard Conte, Jr, who claims to know Christs Return) the bishops in Italy would have had this Father remove all references to Maria Valtorta, “According to your reasoning and summation.”

Imprimatur and nihil obstat are not required for Maria’s writings, because of one outstanding issue Pope Pius XII’s verbal Imprimatur, the highest in the Church. Raise your view up higher
many levels, priest(EWTN), bishop, cardinal(Ottiviani) to Pope.

The site is Father Livio Fanzaga’s the founder and president of RadioMaria, which has 50 stations around the world. They read from Poem. RadioMaria is dictated by the Pope.

In Italian: profeti.net/Carismatici/Maria_Valtorta/Index.htm

The Website Translated to English:

"Dear friends, I would like to stop here for a moment and consider what Vicka [Medjugorje seer] said about the Maria Valtorta work, “The Poem of the Man-God”. This is a question that gets asked by many groups from around the world, which shows just how much Maria Valtorta’s work is read …] it is translated into all the principal languages. But something that is surely very important is this: Marija [Medjugorje seer], on the advice of two priests, twice asked the Madonna if the work of Maria Valtorta was true and if it could be read. And the Madonna said yes, that everything is true and that it can be read. The Madonna said this in two different apparitions–Marija told this to me personally and obviously she told it to Vicka, because here, Vicka is acting as Marija’s mouthpiece. I would like to underline the importance of all this–first of all because the Madonna does not usually respond so easily to questions; many times when people are allowed to pose questions (actually, it is Ivan who is able to present the questions to the Madonna) but many times when people pose questions for the Madonna, many times, more often than not, the Madonna does not respond, or else she responds saying, “That person should pray, and through prayer he/she shall have an answer”–which is a normal illumination by the Holy Spirit, that is, the Madonna does not want to substitute herself for that which is the ordinary means by which God guides souls, and that of course, is through the Holy Spirit.

But that the Madonna responded two times to this question regarding a private revelation (Maria Valtorta), something which the Madonna never does–that the Madonna responded in the affermative saying that it is all true and that it can be read, this seems to me a fact of very great importance. This says a lot about the importance that the Madonna attaches to the Maria Valtorta work and to the fact that the faithful should read it. And so, I would like to say…, having read three times over the Poem of the Man-God, a work in 10 volumes, and thus being in a position to evaluate it in all it’s complexity and worth, I feel that I can say…that I know of no other commentary on the Gospels that is more orthodox, more edifying and more stimulating than this. And so I would like for you all to embrace the Madonna’s invitation to read this work because it is all true [it contains no errors against the faith and morals of the Catholic Church–editor’s note]. So read it dear friends because you shall surely reap great benefits for your souls. It is not even difficult to purchase the work, it does not cost much; it is a work in 10 volumes which could be for you all an incomparable spiritual nourishment."

Peace and good will have a wonderful rest of your life in Christ always, in truth and in spirit.

 

[Insight]

Hi BVXI,

 I was getting the impression that Adrift is among the minority of those who are critical to the Medjugorje Apparitions.  But this may help, being that Adrift is a Ronald L. Conte Jr. fan:

In my humble and pious opinion as a faithful Roman Catholic theologian, the claim that the messages and apparitions to the six visionaries of Medjugorje are private revelation is trustworthy and reliable.

catholicplanet.com/apparitions/true08.htm

 Conte places himself in a precarious predicament, supporting Medjugorje and denying the Poem.  He handles this by ignoring the facts.

catholicplanet.com/apparitions/false10.htm

“2. Did Mary at Medjugorje approve of The Poem of the Man-God?

One of the visionaries, Marija Pavlovic, asked Mary about the Poem of the Man-God on behalf of a particular person (a Franciscan friar named Franjo). The question was, “Is this book true?” Mary said in reply only these words: “You can read it.” (Source: childrenofmedjugorje.com/medj/pomgC.htm)

Such a statement does not connotate approval. The question was a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ question, yet Mary did not answer with ‘yes’ or ‘no.’ She did not want to say whether it was true or false. Mary has a particular role to fulfill at Medjugorje. She cannot intervene in every question of the faith. She cannot usurp the role of the Holy See and of the Bishops. For this reason, she did not express approval or disapproval of the Poem.

Her comment has often been interpreted to mean that anyone may read it. However, she was asked this question by one visionary on behalf of one particular person (a religious brother). The primary meaning of her words, then, is that he, the religious brother may read it. The question was his question, so the answer is primarily his answer. And he, being a religious brother, could then judge for himself its contents.

One might infer a secondary meaning from her answer: that other persons who are responsible for teaching and leading the faithful may read it to decide for themselves. However, the conclusion that everyone may read it is not correct.”

He ignores many other documented approvals of the Poem by several of the Visionaries:

For Example:

mariavaltortawebring.com/Pages/014_1988.htm

 

[adrift]

I responded to this

Because you just took away from the Description of Jesus saying His appearance cannot be taken literally. This description of Jesus is taken literally. Most do not realize this but in Rome they do. That’s where it counts. In Rome the Seat of The Churches Authority. Jesus is not Brown haired.

You told me nothing in your response but to ignore that the description is taken literally by Rome was untrue.

Prophecy of Ezekiel Chapter 10 is considered in the same genera as Revelations.

 

[Insight]

You are trying to split atoms with a razor blade. There are three entirely separate eyewitness descriptions, one authenticated by The United States Congressional Library and another dates back to 5 BC (± 50yrs accuracy). The third you contested that the writer never existed, but there is a bio on him in Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica. Not to mention the most recent analysis of the shroud.

 

[adrift]

I

just pointed to you about Benedict seeing the reality of the Index.
Which you over looked. See the lesson there was did you see the underlying pinion? No, you squabbled about Dates!

What I pointed out to you which you wish to ignore is that this was not our present Pope but Benedict XV who was pope from 1914 to 1922. It wasn’t a condemnation of the index but rather a “housecleaning” in order to make less work. You presented this article as if it just happened that is more than just a squabble about dates.

 

[adrift]

You are trying to split atoms with a razor blade. There are three entirely separate eyewitness descriptions, one authenticated by The United States Congressional Library and another dates back to 5 BC (± 50yrs accuracy). The third you contested that the writer never existed, by but there is a bio on him in Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica. Not to mention the most recent analysis of the shroud.

Because it is in the Library does not authenticate it. Do some research on your own. I am not sure which writer you are referring to that has a bio on him. Why didn’t you link the article? Only one person has come up with an unsubstantiated theory on the Shroud. He is making money on it with his books. It makes his theory very suspect. The Shroud is even disputed as being authentic.

One dates back to 5 BC? Do you mean the Poem?

 

[adrift]

I was getting the impression that Adrift is among the minority of those who are critical to the Medjugorje Apparitions.

This is unapproved by the Church. The last pronouncement in the nineties is that nothing supernatural occurred.

You seem to always make statements that attack.

As I have already states I think there are puppets here.

 

[adrift]

adrift,

Just for your amusement and for those who are really interested to know the Truth, here’s a website in Italy that proves what we’ve been saying all along.

Again an attack without substance. Websites prove nothing. There is not approval of the poem as being true. The Church has said that it is fiction and even asked the publisher to so declare which they have so far not done.

 

[adrift]

I just want to jump in here as I am reading this thread. I do not want respond to any person here who wrote months ago. But I want to say, someone here wrote comparing Valtorta to Luisia Piccarretta! Please! There is no comparison whatsoever!

What a mess! Who can believe that stuff?

There is no comparison. It is like saying Pope John Paull II is comparable to Bill Clinton. Yes. They are both men.
Sorry this is a bit off topic but it was mentioned in this thread and not responded to.
I missed this post and you missed the point. The comparison was only in the sense that they are both unapproved by the Church. He rejected Divine Will, for the same reason, until it was approved.

 

[adrift]

As soon as CBS News uncovered the 1962 Cardinal Ottaviani directive, damage control went into full swing, endeavoring to minimize the document’s role and significance.

definition of the sin of detraction

Detraction is the unjust damaging of another’s good name by the revelation of some fault or crime of which that other is really guilty or at any rate is seriously believed to be guilty by the defamer.

Noted is that you never read the document. Noted that you prefer the opinions of those who are enemies of the Church.

 

[Insight]

That’s what I thought, you are part of the problem. So people who see something wrong with excommunicating child victims for refusing to be silent are enemies of the Church? Has the devil already penetrated the Church this far?

bishop-accountability.org/

“The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see Cardinals opposing Cardinals, Bishops against other Bishops. The priests who venerate Me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises, and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.” (Sister Agnes Katsuko Sasagawa – Full Roman Catholic Church Approval)