Polish Catholic

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We welcome our fellow Christians to this celebration of the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters. We pray that our common baptism and the action of the Holy Spirit in this Eucharist will draw us closer to one another and begin to dispel the sad divisions which separate us. We pray that these will lessen and finally disappear, in keeping with Christ’s prayer for us “that they may all be one” (Jn 17:21).

Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law (canon 844 §4). Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the** Polish National Catholic Church** are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of Communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 §3).

I always considered myself Roman Catholic, but here it says their is a Polish Catholic Church thats different then the roman catholic church but can still take our own communion. I am 100% Polish, but am I missing something, this has always confused me
 
As I understand it, being Polish does not necessarily assign you to the Polish National church. Check with your diocesan office to see if your parish (I’m assuming you go to a Polish Catholic church) is under the diocese or the Polish National.

My wife is Polish and were are 100% Roman Catholic. She is a cradle Catholic and I am a convert. She and her family have always been Roman.

Again check with your diocese.

God Bless.
 
The Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church have all seven valid sacraments, so the Catholic Church has no objection to their receiving Communion.
 
First of all, this is from a document called Guidelines for the Reception of Holy Communion.

Second of all, while it’s of course true that “the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of Communion by Christians of [Churches such as the Polish National Catholic Church],” the citation to Canon 844 section 4 should be read to get a sense of the full context of this “non-objection.”

§4. If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed.

So this shouldn’t confuse you. In certain circumstances, Christians belonging even to Schismatic groups can receive Holy Communion in a Catholic Church. This is a tremendous work of mercy. But it’s not the norm, it would appear.

Third of all, I’m by no means a canon lawyer, and so there may be all sorts of variables here I’m not aware of. I’m simply reading the text and coming to certain conclusions based on what little I do know.
 
The Polish National Catholic Church (PNCC) was formed over 100 years ago in the US when Irish American bishops had conflict with a handful of their Polish American congregations and their clergy over parish properties, and other factors. There were conflicts with other ethnic groups at this time also. The great majority of Polish American congregations and clergy remained as part of the Catholic Church, sometimes in **RC **“Polish parishes”, but in several American cities, congregations separated and later formed the PNCC, with its own diocesan structures.

The Catholic Church does not recognize them (the organization) as part of the Catholic Church, but individuals share the Christian faith, and their bishops have apostolic succession, which they obtained after the secession from the Old Catholic movement, in Europe. Thus they have valid sacraments, in Rome’s eyes. The difference between Rome’s view of them, and Rome’s view of the Eastern Orthodox, is that the EO have valid sacraments, and also valid, apostolic-foundation churches.

The American parish I belong to was founded for Polish immigrants and their families but it is part of the Catholic diocese, and under that bishop and pope. The vast majority of Americans of Polish descent belong to the RCC. The PNCC has recently renamed itself the NCC, and tries to recruit (Catholics) of whatever ethnicity. It is not in any way under the pope, it has a Prime Bishop in Scranton who has a leadership role, though not equivalent to pope. It has dioceses and parishes. Like my parish, their local parishes no longer emphasize the Polish language, though they continue a few Polish devotions.
 
The PNCC is a sect which left the Catholic Church near the dawn of the 20th Century, its roots were disagreements between Polish immigrants and the Catholic hierarchy in America- not doctrinal disputes.

Most Polish Americans aren’t members of the PNCC, the PNCC really only took hold in industrial and mining communities where large numbers of Poles settled in.

Just because you are Polish doesn’t mandate you to be a member of the PNCC.
 
It’s not easy to assign something as "Orthodox "as disciples vary from Church to Church
My understanding from years of “dialog” on this boards as since the Catholic Church is viewed not only as Schismatic but Heretical we do not have valid sacrements ,therefore communion with us unless you face death is not allowed. The Western Catholic Church position is really a moot point.
I 've seen many Polish Churches in fact my Parish back east although not considered Polish observed many Polish customs. All these Churches were extremely loyal Catholics.
I’ve never actually seen a PNN Church but I remember reading about one in the Bridgeport area of Ct.
Many of the old ethnic Church’s have merged with other parishes and sadly their beautiful traditions are being lost.
The Irish nature of the US Church can’t be denied the PNN is only one example of their bad Judgement . Many so called Russian Othodox Churches in the US were started not by Ethnic Russians but sadly by Ukrainians who were Catholic they split with the Church over priestly Celibacy. The Irish Bishops who controlled the Church were not sensitive to Eastern Catholic traditions.
 
Just this week I went to visit the parish where my mom attended in her youth, both of my parents were Polish. The church was breathtaking!

ststanislaus.org/
 
We had a Polish National Catholic Church in our neighborhood. We went to a Roman Catholic parish. Mass was said in Polish at one point in the day.

Ed
 
gus said:
It’s not easy to assign something as "Orthodox "as disciples vary from Church to Church
My understanding from years of “dialog” on this boards as since the Catholic Church is viewed not only as Schismatic but Heretical we do not have valid sacrements ,therefore communion with us unless you face death is not allowed. The Western Catholic Church position is really a moot point.
I 've seen many Polish Churches in fact my Parish back east although not considered Polish observed many Polish customs. All these Churches were extremely loyal Catholics.
I’ve never actually seen a PNN Church but I remember reading about one in the Bridgeport area of Ct.
Many of the old ethnic Church’s have merged with other parishes and sadly their beautiful traditions are being lost.
The Irish nature of the US Church can’t be denied the PNN is only one example of their bad Judgement . Many so called Russian Othodox Churches in the US were started not by Ethnic Russians but sadly by Ukrainians who were Catholic they split with the Church over priestly Celibacy. The Irish Bishops who controlled the Church were not sensitive to Eastern Catholic traditions.
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I wasn’t sure but after checking both the Ruthenian ( Ukranian) schism and the PNN schism were the result of the same US Bishop
Bishop Ireland of Chicago in the late 1800’s.
No wonder St John Chrysostom said" The floor of hell is paved with the skull of priests"
 
I strongly disagree. Having Eastern European relatives and parents, it wasn’t just “by the rules.” Anyone who is Polish knows that each region, for lack of a more precise term, has its own customs, dress and traditions. In a local Church, a man came to Church dressed in the full traditional outfit for his region of Poland.

There is no such thing as a “comfort zone.” It’s a fake, meaningless term. I have friends from northern Poland, southern Poland and eastern Poland. The Mass is the Mass as established by the Church.

The changes in borders in Poland and elsewhere, and certain arbitrary decisions, means that there are at least two types of Ruthenians for example. Galicia is a story worth a book or two. See maps just before World War One, shortly after, and shortly after World War II. I have seen such maps. Place names have multiple spellings depending on who temporarily owned what when. Some places were obliterated.

Liberal/Leftist ideas are usually rejected by the Church.

Ed
 
I became familiar with some Irish Catholic role models. I saw them as Catholic as Polish Catholics. Education was rarely part of the equation. I doubt people know my ethnic background just by looking at me.

Ed
 
In fairness to history, I would point out that the Irish American bishops from around 1870 - 1930 had a nearly impossible job. They were still facing bitter anti Catholic opposition from the dominant Protestant culture. They had in their dioceses many ethnic groups which were from countries in Europe that were in and out of war with each other. They had many clergy they could not even speak to, because of language. Many dealt with not 1 but a dozen or more different cultures, which were themselves in flux, with different sub cultures.

In this kind of situation I am not shocked a tiny fraction of Polish Catholics pulled out, as well as perhaps a small section of other groups. The astonishing thing is that the bishops and dioceses survived intact at all, that secessions were so rare.

The challenge of 2017 is not so much ethnic clashes, but clash between Christians and the dominant, media driven pro secular culture, often anti-Christian. In this new climate, does it still make sense to continue the splits from yesterday?
 
Just to add to the confusion, there is also a Polish Catholic Church in Poland, separate from both the Catholic Church and the PNCC, which is a member of the Old Catholic Union of Utrecht. They had their origins in the PNCC but are now separate, retaining their ties with Utrecht after the PNCC broke away.
 
LiamQ said:
First of all, this is from a document called Guidelines for the Reception of Holy Communion.

Second of all, while it’s of course true that “the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of Communion by Christians of [Churches such as the Polish National Catholic Church],” the citation to Canon 844 section 4 should be read to get a sense of the full context of this “non-objection.”
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No. Absolutely not. These two paragraphs are, in fact, describing entirely different situations and one should not be read in light of the other. Those mentioned in §3 are to be welcomed for any of the three sacraments named, presuming that the person is properly disposed and that they spontaneously seek them of their own volition.
*§3. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed. This is also valid for members of other Churches which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition in regard to the sacraments as these Eastern Churches.
*
The last sentence being why this canon applies to members of the PNCC.
§4. If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed.
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I have employed this provision more times than I could begin to count. The “other Christians” would be those not covered in §3, in my experience most notably those of the Anglican Communion or those who are Lutheran. What constitutes grave necessity rests with the conference of bishops and then with the diocesan bishop – and the priest should implement the bishop’s will.
Third of all, I’m by no means a canon lawyer, and so there may be all sorts of variables here I’m not aware of. I’m simply reading the text and coming to certain conclusions based on what little I do know.
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Your conclusions fall short of the actual application of the canons.
 
edwest2 said:
I strongly disagree. Having Eastern European relatives and parents, it wasn’t just “by the rules.” Anyone who is Polish knows that each region, for lack of a more precise term, has its own customs, dress and traditions. In a local Church, a man came to Church dressed in the full traditional outfit for his region of Poland.

There is no such thing as a “comfort zone.” It’s a fake, meaningless term. I have friends from northern Poland, southern Poland and eastern Poland. The Mass is the Mass as established by the Church.

The changes in borders in Poland and elsewhere, and certain arbitrary decisions, means that there are at least two types of Ruthenians for example. Galicia is a story worth a book or two. See maps just before World War One, shortly after, and shortly after World War II. I have seen such maps. Place names have multiple spellings depending on who temporarily owned what when. Some places were obliterated.

Liberal/Leftist ideas are usually rejected by the Church.

Ed
Click to expand...
I’m s genealogist and my grandsons have Galacian roots
Interesting I helped a Jewish man with his ancestry and it turned out his ancestors lived about 20 miles from from my son-in-laws great grandparents .
In Researching their histories I discovered the Ruthenian schism
In fact I know of two churches that sit side by side one Othodox one Catholic but the second broke off in schism from the Older ,both were founded by Catholics from Galacia
Very sad
 
This was very common in Pittsburgh, and many other places as well I’m sure- we had legal, canonical Catholic churches for many of our ethnic groups.

The people in the immigrant groups, from the first generation, really knew a lot of the other people in their ethnic groups from the old country. If someone is living in a village in Slovakia or Italy or wherever, and they decide to come to America, they are most likely to go where there are people they know and where they can get a job.
 
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