Polish Old Catholic Church?

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I was looking for information on any Catholic churches in the Nashville, TN area which are not Roman rite. A friend of mine is drawn to the Orthodox church, so I was looking for other rites in the area and I ran across this website.

netministries.org/see/churches.exe/ch16129

I was wondering if this is a valid church which falls under Rome or is it schismatic?
 
I know of the Polish National Catholic Church and the Old Catholic Church, both of which are schismatic. While it may exist, I have never heard of a Polish Old Catholic church.
 
SchonGirl1 said:
I was looking for information on any Catholic churches in the Nashville, TN area which are not Roman rite. A friend of mine is drawn to the Orthodox church, so I was looking for other rites in the area and I ran across this website.

netministries.org/see/churches.exe/ch16129

I was wondering if this is a valid church which falls under Rome or is it schismatic?
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Just looking at the web site, they have someone called Reverand Linda. No Catholic or Orthodox Church would ever have a female “Reverand”. This must be some indpendent group.

There is an “Polish National Catholic Church” that is schismatic but has valid orders. This does not look like it is part of that group.

I’d stay away.

God Bless
 
These guys are ex-Utrecht Union, judging from their history. They might have valid orders and sacraments, but it is best to be quite cautious.

They are affiliated with the Brazillian Apostolic Old Catholics, who are formerly of the Utrecht Union.

They do have female priests.

Essentially, they are Roman Tridentine in the Vernacular, but they reject V I, and most of V II, and accept female clergy and birth control, and some of the V II reforms. They consider themselves Catholic and autocephalous, Rome doesn’t.

(The degeneration into heresy of many formerly Utrecht Union particular churches is seen by some as the exemplar of the flaws of autocephaly…)
 
Sad to say the Church looks more Catholic than many I’ve seen.
 
I would be willing to bet my last dollar that they are not in union with Rome. I visited their site and they lost me at Rev. Lynda. Near the bottom of their web page they affirm that they are of the Old Catholic Church which is in schism.
 
Mike_Dye said:
I would be willing to bet my last dollar that they are not in union with Rome. I visited their site and they lost me at Rev. Lynda. Near the bottom of their web page they affirm that they are of the Old Catholic Church which is in schism.
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Rome doesn’t consider them in union. They consider themselves in communion, however.

Canon Law puts them in a bit of a gray zone.
 
Patchunky said:
Enquiring minds want to know… WHY???:confused:
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Take a look at the photos on their website… looks like some of the smaller pre V II parishes.

That, and essentially, they kept the Tridentine Liturgy.

Note that it appears most of their parishes are small, operated out of the pastor’s home.
Christ’s Apostolic Church of North America
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℅ Most Rev. Ronald D. Nowlan, D.D.
Chancery Office
316 Hullett St.
Long Beach, CA 90805-3424
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Christ’s Apostolic Church of North America is a small Old Catholic jurisdiction whose primate, Most Rev. Ronald D. Nowlan, holds lines of apostolic succession derived from the Roman Catholic Church, the Old Catholic Church of Utrecht and the Brazilian National Catholic Church. The church was founded with the intention of establishing independent ministries, most operating out of private homes, throughout the United States.
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The church uses an Old Catholic liturgy, but others are acceptable. Archbishop Nowlan is assisted by the Vicar General for North America, Most Rev. Irwin Young, and the diocese’s chancellor, Rt. Rev. Msgr. Harvey Beagle. The church has good relations with the Independent Catholic Church of America headed by Most Rev. Maurice McCormick.
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Membership: Not reported.
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novelguide.com/a/discover/ear_01/ear_01_00103.html
 
Note that Christ’s Apostolic Church of North America is referenced on the POCC’s website.

The Old Catholic and Independent Catholic movements are interesting, but very western, Schisms.

However, some of these groups use the Byzantine, Syriac, Alexandrian, and Armenian Liturgies, as well…

In studying groups like these, I find myself in wonder at their fixation on apostolic succession as sole determinant of validity.

I did find several other related groups world wide… their Israeli counterpart uses the Quorbona, the DL of St Basil, and of St Gregory… and lists four orders granted by the sacrament of Holy Orders: Bishop, Priest, Deacon, Deaconess.

The POCC, however, is heretical: Rev. Linda is supposedly a priest. see the 3rd from last paragraph.
 
Thanks to all for replying. I am also Polish, only a quarter, though. When I ran across the website I was struck by the fact that it seemed so schismatic. I only glanced at it briefly and immediately went back to looking at other websites which were not so blatantly cut off from Rome.

May I ask if anyone knows of a Catholic Church in the Nashville, Tennessee area which is not Roman Rite. I know there is a Byzantine mission near Knoxville, but something closer would be preferable. Thanks!
 
SchonGirl1 said:
Thanks to all for replying. I am also Polish, only a quarter, though. When I ran across the website I was struck by the fact that it seemed so schismatic. I only glanced at it briefly and immediately went back to looking at other websites which were not so blatantly cut off from Rome.

May I ask if anyone knows of a Catholic Church in the Nashville, Tennessee area which is not Roman Rite. I know there is a Byzantine mission near Knoxville, but something closer would be preferable. Thanks!
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Based on the current listing of parishes and missions of the Eastern Catholic Churches in the U.S., there is none in Nashville, TN, that is not Roman Rite. As you cited, the nearest Ruthenian mission is in the Knoxville, TN, area:

Holy Resurrection Byzantine (Ruthenian) Mission
Meeting at: Holy Family Catholic Church (Latin)
307 Black Oak Ridge Rd
Seymour, TN **37865
**Tel: 865-609-1081 Fax: 865-579-3645
 
Just looking at the web site, they have someone called Reverand Linda. No Catholic or Orthodox Church would ever have a female “Reverand”. This must be some indpendent group.

**While the Polish National Catholic Church (now known as the National Catholic Church) broke away from the Union of Utrecht precisely over the issue of female priests, the one identified as “Reverend Linda” appears to be wearing a dalmatic, which means she is a deaon/deaconess.

The Armenians have at least one deaconess, Mother Protodeaconess Rhipsime.

And even in Canonical Orthodoxy, an Abbess uses the style “Very Reverend.” Romanians go as far as granting some the title “Archmandrita”, which would be “Right Reverend.”**
 
bpbasilphx said:
Just looking at the web site, they have someone called Reverand Linda. No Catholic or Orthodox Church would ever have a female “Reverand”. This must be some indpendent group.

**While the Polish National Catholic Church (now known as the National Catholic Church) broke away from the Union of Utrecht precisely over the issue of female priests, the one identified as “Reverend Linda” appears to be wearing a dalmatic, which means she is a deaon/deaconess.

The Armenians have at least one deaconess, Mother Protodeaconess Rhipsime.

And even in Canonical Orthodoxy, an Abbess uses the style “Very Reverend.” Romanians go as far as granting some the title “Archmandrita”, which would be “Right Reverend.”**
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Still, I think the group isn’t making an appeal to orthodoxy by only giving “Reverend” Linda a dalmatic. I think the group would argue she is a real, ordained deacon.
 
bpbasilphx said:
Just looking at the web site, they have someone called Reverand Linda. No Catholic or Orthodox Church would ever have a female “Reverand”. This must be some indpendent group.

**While the Polish National Catholic Church (now known as the National Catholic Church) broke away from the Union of Utrecht precisely over the issue of female priests, the one identified as “Reverend Linda” appears to be wearing a dalmatic, which means she is a deaon/deaconess.

The Armenians have at least one deaconess, Mother Protodeaconess Rhipsime.

And even in Canonical Orthodoxy, an Abbess uses the style “Very Reverend.” Romanians go as far as granting some the title “Archmandrita”, which would be “Right Reverend.”**
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Father Bishop, i f you follow the link I posted above, their seminary news includes her ordination to the presbyterate.

Which is invalid, for she is invalid matter for presbyteral ordination.
 
Did anyone catch that the bishop and the woman priest both have the same last name? Do you think they are siblings or spouses, or cousins? Who knows, but I would say this is definitely a schismatic group.

At our ethnic Polish parish, the immigrant Poles do not even accept permanent deacons too readily since they do not have them in Poland…and women extraordinary eucharistic ministers usually do not have long lines of communicants at their stations because they do not have women in those capacities of ministry in Poland either.
 
stbruno said:
Did anyone catch that the bishop and the woman priest both have the same last name? Do you think they are siblings or spouses, or cousins? Who knows, but I would say this is definitely a schismatic group.
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That seems typical from what I’ve seen online. Female clerics seem to be frequently married to male clerics.
 
**Father Bishop, i f you follow the link I posted above, their seminary news includes her ordination to the presbyterate.

Which is invalid, for she is invalid matter for presbyteral ordination.**

I didn’t chase them all down, and for the last, I would agree with you.
 
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