Political correctness?

[Crusading_Canuk]

What is this world coming to? In the secular world in these ideas of “equality” where we are ashamed of our history are shoved down our throat. In my local parish these ideals are now being proclaimed from the pulpits. A few days ago I had a discussion with my priest confessor regarding “No salvation outside the Catholic Church”. He said that God loves Buddists, Muslims, Jews, Protestants, etc… just as much as Catholics. I will not argue with this. However he then whent on to say that the idea of there being no salvation outside of the Catholic Church being “nonsense” and we have our (Catholic) ways to honor God and other religions have their own ways which can lead to salvation. What should I make of this? Is this modern Church teaching?

 

[Stylites]

What is this world coming to? In the secular world in these ideas of “equality” where we are ashamed of our history are shoved down our throat. In my local parish these ideals are now being proclaimed from the pulpits. A few days ago I had a discussion with my priest confessor regarding “No salvation outside the Catholic Church”. He said that God loves Buddists, Muslims, Jews, Protestants, etc… just as much as Catholics. I will not argue with this. However he then whent on to say that the idea of there being no salvation outside of the Catholic Church being “nonsense” and we have our (Catholic) ways to honor God and other religions have their own ways which can lead to salvation. What should I make of this? Is this modern Church teaching?

Is St. Paul’s Letter to the Romans, Chapter 2, ‘modern’?

11 There is no partiality with God.
12 All who sin outside the law will also perish without reference to it, and all who sin under the law will be judged in accordance with it.
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them
16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people’s hidden works through Christ Jesus.

 

[Stylites]

These Catechisms relate to the doctrine of “No Salvation Outside the Church”:

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

 

[Stylites]

Here’s the beginning of the Catholic.com article:

Salvation outside the Church

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, following historic Christian theology since the time of the early Church Fathers, refers to the Catholic Church as “the universal sacrament of salvation” (CCC 774–776), and states: “The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men” (CCC 780).

Many people misunderstand the nature of this teaching.

Indifferentists, going to one extreme, claim that it makes no difference what church one belongs to. Certain radical traditionalists, going to the other extreme, claim that unless one is a full-fledged, baptized member of the Catholic Church, one will be damned.

The following quotations from the Church Fathers give the straight story. They show that the early Church held the same position on this as the contemporary Church does—that is, while it is normatively necessary to be a Catholic to be saved (see CCC 846; Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 14), there are exceptions, and it is possible in some circumstances for people to be saved who have not been fully initiated into the Catholic Church (CCC 847).

Notice that the same Fathers who declare the normative necessity of being Catholic also declare the possibility of salvation for some who are not Catholics.

These can be saved by what later came to be known as “baptism of blood” or " baptism of desire" (for more on this subject, see the Fathers Know Best tract, The Necessity of Baptism).

The Fathers likewise affirm the possibility of salvation for those who lived before Christ and who were not part of Israel, the Old Testament People of God.

However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.

. . .

catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp

 

[Apollos]

we have our (Catholic) ways to honor God and other religions have their own ways which can lead to salvation

I’m sure God really appreciated human sacrifices of the Aztecs and Phoenicians. Cutting the hearts out of teenagers and burning children alive shows a lot of faith.

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

. However he then whent on to say that the idea of there being no salvation outside of the Catholic Church being “nonsense” and we have our (Catholic) ways to honor God and other religions have their own ways which can lead to salvation. What should I make of this? Is this modern Church teaching?

The Pope is against Religious Relativism which states all religions are equal, regardless of the truth contained in them.

 

[Dale_M]

The Pope is against Religious Relativism which states all religions are equal, regardless of the truth contained in them.

Not just Pope Benedict - it is basic Church teaching. I’ll quote from the Catechism:

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm

There is good in other religions, often mixed with error. But this partial goodness does not remove the need to evangelize to bring all into the Church.

The Catholic Church has not abandoned

 

[Dale_M]

The Pope is against Religious Relativism which states all religions are equal, regardless of the truth contained in them.

Not just Pope Benedict is opposed to that idea - it is basic Church teaching.

Stylites already quoted the relevant portion of the Catechism. Here is a link so that the OP can read it in context.
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm

 

[stuart12]

Anyone who teaches that is preaching heresy and leading souls astray.
If such were true, God would not have become man and founded a Church.

 

[edwest2]

What is this world coming to? In the secular world in these ideas of “equality” where we are ashamed of our history are shoved down our throat. In my local parish these ideals are now being proclaimed from the pulpits. A few days ago I had a discussion with my priest confessor regarding “No salvation outside the Catholic Church”. He said that God loves Buddists, Muslims, Jews, Protestants, etc… just as much as Catholics. I will not argue with this. However he then whent on to say that the idea of there being no salvation outside of the Catholic Church being “nonsense” and we have our (Catholic) ways to honor God and other religions have their own ways which can lead to salvation. What should I make of this? Is this modern Church teaching?

I would suggest one of two possibilities: politely ask your priest for a reference that supports his view, or contact the Bishop of your diocese and relate this incident to him. I can’t know if this priest has been led astray somehow and picked up this error or if he is purposely leading people astray. Either way, we should correct such a problem in an appropriate way.

God bless,
Ed

 

[TMC]

What is this world coming to? In the secular world in these ideas of “equality” where we are ashamed of our history are shoved down our throat. In my local parish these ideals are now being proclaimed from the pulpits. A few days ago I had a discussion with my priest confessor regarding “No salvation outside the Catholic Church”. He said that God loves Buddists, Muslims, Jews, Protestants, etc… just as much as Catholics. I will not argue with this. However he then whent on to say that the idea of there being no salvation outside of the Catholic Church being “nonsense” and we have our (Catholic) ways to honor God and other religions have their own ways which can lead to salvation. What should I make of this? Is this modern Church teaching?

Yes, it is the teaching of the Church that although only the Church has the fullness of truth, other faiths, including non-Christian faiths, can lead to salvation.

Gaudium et Spes:

All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way.(31) For, since Christ died for all men,(32) and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery.

Lumen Gentium:

1. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.

 

[distracted]

Is St. Paul’s Letter to the Romans, Chapter 2, ‘modern’?

so do you agree w/ OP or not?

 

[distracted]

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Anyone who teaches that is preaching heresy and leading souls astray.
If such were true, God would not have become man and founded a Church.

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:clapping::dancing::clapping:

.
.

 

[distracted]

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Anyone who teaches that is preaching heresy and leading souls astray.
If such were true, God would not have become man and founded a Church

.
.

 

[distracted]

I would suggest one of two possibilities: politely ask your priest for a reference that supports his view, or contact the Bishop of your diocese and relate this incident to him. I can’t know if this priest has been led astray somehow and picked up this error or if he is purposely leading people astray. Either way, we should correct such a problem in an appropriate way.

God bless,
Ed

i dont buy it that priests are ignorant and innocent in teaching this kind of thing… they have more education than most of the parishioners…

 

[Stylites]

so do you agree w/ OP or not?

I agree with the Church, as St. Paul states, that non-Christians can be saved. The Body of Christ is comprised of more than baptised Catholics, and includes non-baptised non-Christians as well.

This is not to endorse indifferentism; it’s just an affirmation of Church teaching.

 

[distracted]

I agree with the Church, as St. Paul states, that non-Christians can be saved. The Body of Christ is comprised of more than baptised Catholics, and includes non-baptised non-Christians as well.

This is not to endorse indifferentism; it’s just an affirmation of Church teaching.

I’m still confused cuz Pope Eugene IV said that outside the Church ther is no salvation… and other popes/saints have said this also… some in even stronger words…

but i guess the teaching on this has been … elaborated on down thro the centuries… ?