Political Party in Re: to Catholicism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Scians_Daughter
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I just wish that we could look at these issues with a clear head instead of throwing unfounded accusations like bob does every time someone speaks out against the Republican party. I don’t buy the pro-life stance of the Republican party and I don’t think there’s anything they can do or say to change my opinion because if they were to accomplish the goal of outlawing abortion nationwide, very few Christians would vote for them.
If you really wish “we could look at these issues with a clear head…” then try stepping away, rather than responding with an even higher level of vitriole (as you did in the post responding to Bob)

It’s fine that you don’t personally “buy the pro-life stance of the Republican Party.” I happen to think you are wrong, but go join a meaningless third party, if you like. Just don’t use your personal anti-Republican reasoning regarding the party to go and join a party that is clearly pro-abortion. That’s what Bob is assuming, and it is what many Democrats do…if they care about life issues at all.
 
Godwin’s Law is hereby invoked.
And an attempt to avoid the truth is hereby noted.

When addressing the mass killing of human beings, it is appropriate to compare it to other mass killings. If comparing the Abortion Holocaust to the Nazi Holocaust is inappropriate, it is only because the Nazi Holocaust was so small in comparison – only about 12 million people killed in the Nazi Holocaust, as compared to about 48 million innocent children. And counting.
 
Oh, how cute. Your usual cut-and-paste accusation that people who DARE do disagree with the right-wing ideology presented by the Corporatist, sorry… Republican, Party are actually, bloody, murderous, baby-killing Satan-worshiping ghouls who would love nothing more than to restore public human sacrifice.

HOW DARE YOU!!! :mad:

The Republicans oppose taxpayer-funded abortions because they oppose taxpayer-funded ANYTHING. Yes, the Republican party snips around the edges of the abortion issue but nothing substantive is actually accomplished.

Until you acknowledge the Jack Abramof scandal and the part that REPUBLICAN Party operatives and pols play in forced abortions in Saipan, you have absolutely NO credibility whatsover.
The truth hurts ,doesnt it? You are vote for those who support the gruesome dismemberment of children and then react in righteous indignation when someone points it out. I wish we saw as much outrage at those who support this butchery as we do those who oppose it.
 
If you really wish “we could look at these issues with a clear head…” then try stepping away, rather than responding with an even higher level of vitriole (as you did in the post responding to Bob)

It’s fine that you don’t personally “buy the pro-life stance of the Republican Party.” I happen to think you are wrong, but go join a meaningless third party, if you like. Just don’t use your personal anti-Republican reasoning regarding the party to go and join a party that is clearly pro-abortion. That’s what Bob is assuming, and it is what many Democrats do…if they care about life issues at all.
👍

If one feels a canidate is not legitimately pro-life you shouldnt vote for them. OIt does not folow, however, that you are then free to vote for someone who is legitimately pro-abortion.
 
I don’t agree that all those who have voted for a pro-abortion candidate support the butchering of children, any more than I believe that all those who voted for a pro-torture candidate support the torture of human beings.
More excuses, more attempts to change the subject. if you want to start a thread about politcans who allegedly support torture do so-we are talking about killing children here.
 
I don’t agree that all those who have voted for a pro-abortion candidate support the butchering of children, any more than I believe that all those who voted for a pro-torture candidate support the torture of human beings.
I would like to withdraw my comments above as this is very much on topic. if one votes for a canidate who proclaims he supports torture amnd even came from a party that had the right to torture in their party platform voting for them would indeed be voting for torture. hopefully we will never have such a canidate run for office.
 
exactly why I am a registered independent…and I keep who I vote for to myself.
 
More excuses, more attempts to change the subject. if you want to start a thread about politcans who allegedly support torture do so-we are talking about killing children here.
You miss the point. The point is not to start a thread about torture, but to raise a smokescreen – pretending waterboarding terrorists is morally equivallent to killing the unborn. So it’s okay to vote pro-abortion.:rolleyes:
 
didn’t say that, bob…watch the spin, there. It is my right as an American to choose a candidate for elected office. I also have the right to privacy and the right not to disclose who I voted for. I know what separation of church and state actually means.😉
 
didn’t say that, bob…watch the spin, there. It is my right as an American to choose a candidate for elected office. I also have the right to privacy and the right not to disclose who I voted for. I know what separation of church and state actually means.😉
What does seperation of Church and State have to do with whether it is moral to vote for a pro-abortion canidate?

I am willing to share all my votes with any one who asks-including the ones for McGovern and Carter!(“those who are not liberal when they are young have no heart, those who remain liberal as they mature have no mind”)
 
You miss the point. The point is not to start a thread about torture, but to raise a smokescreen – pretending waterboarding terrorists is morally equivallent to killing the unborn. So it’s okay to vote pro-abortion.:rolleyes:
Actually, according to the CCC, it is morally equivelent. Torture of prisoners is strictly prohibited under the doctrine of Just War. If the war is not just, then the pregnant woman and their infants killed so far are murder and forced abortion.

As the Church points out (via the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith), “limiting the harm” as explained by JPII is not an excuse to twist the faith:
“In this context [limiting the harm], it must be noted also that a well-formed Christian conscience does not permit one to vote for a political program or an individual law which contradicts the fundamental contents of faith and morals. The Christian faith is an integral unity, and thus it is incoherent to isolate some particular element to the detriment of the whole of Catholic doctrine. A political commitment to a single isolated aspect of the Church’s social doctrine does not exhaust one’s responsibility towards the common good. Nor can a Catholic think of delegating his Christian responsibility to others; rather, the Gospel of Jesus Christ gives him this task, so that the truth about man and the world might be proclaimed and put into action.”
So pointing out that there are multiple, important, and cohesively connected teachings that should be considered by voters is the official position of the Church.

The Church describes the opposite, voting on a single, narrow interpretation of an isolated teaching not only “incoherent” but even a “detriment”. So there is no “smoke screen”, only Catholicism.

In fact, the Pope himself has framed torture and secret detention as a “pro life” issue, speaking in his official capacity. That is, the ultimate authority on morality for the Church sees the issues as connected. Similiarly, the Pope raised concerns about the fate of Christians in Iraq as an issue of the inalienable rights of the human person (as explained by the Second Vatican Council). That is the foundation (according to the Church’s DECLARATION ON PROCURED ABORTION) of our teaching on abortion as well.

So when a poster like estesbob talks about “the truth” and being “legitimately” pro-life in a Catholic context, we are using a different definition than the apostolic authority of the Church. To me, presenting an alternate ideology as the lone acceptable expression of Catholicism is more than a “smoke screen”. It is anathema, seperate from the Body of Christ:
“If anyone should say that the Roman Pontiff has merely the function of inspection or direction but not full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, not only in matters pertaining to faith and morals, but also in matters pertaining to the discipline and government of the Church throughout the entire world, or that he has only the principal share, but not the full plenitutde of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate over all Churches and over each individual Church, over all shepherds and all the faithful, and over each individual one of these: let him be anathema” - Vatican Council I, Dogmatic Constitution of the Church of Christ, #3
I find it sad how often we fail to connect our Sunday obligation to our lives at large. A central feature of Mass is that we repeatedly acknowledge our unworthiness. We are all sinners, yet we are all welcome at God’s Table. Yet, here we are, all sinners, all making moral compromises, and so much energy being expended into not only presenting one’s own choices as the one truth path to enlightenment, but deriding even disagreement as intellectual dishonesty.

We are all, to some degree or another, Cafeteria Catholics. Rather it is turning the other cheek or selling all our posessions to give to the poor, Jesus sets a standard that none of us can fully meet. But claiming moral authority in excess of Rome’s or that one is in posession of the one true path to salvation is not Cafeteria Catholicism, it is heresy, schism, and anathema. There is no Catholicism without Christ and the lines in our profession of faith (the Nicene Creed) are not optional.
 
mental mastrubation
Oh, how cute.
bloody, murderous, baby-killing Satan-worshiping ghouls
HOW DARE YOU!!!
you have absolutely NO credibility whatsover.
I just wish that we could look at these issues with a clear head instead of throwing unfounded accusations
If you really wish “we could look at these issues with a clear head…” then try stepping away, rather than responding with an even higher level of vitriole
you are wrong, but go join a meaningless third party, if you like.
an attempt to avoid the truth is hereby noted.
The truth hurts ,doesnt it?
More excuses, more attempts to change the subject.
didn’t say that, bob…watch the spin, there.
Wow!

I’ve been away from the thread for a week or so… Amazing what a turn it’s taken.

As Gov. Bill Richardson said on Saturday at the New Hampshire Debates, “I’ve been to hostage negotiations that were more civil than this.” :o

Please, let’s all be civil. We should entertain academic debate, not annecdotal accounts and personal attacks.

** Pax Christi!
**Peace be with you!
 
Wow!

I’ve been away from the thread for a week or so… Amazing what a turn it’s taken.

As Gov. Bill Richardson said on Saturday at the New Hampshire Debates, “I’ve been to hostage negotiations that were more civil than this.” :o

Please, let’s all be civil. We should entertain academic debate, not annecdotal accounts and personal attacks.

Pax Christi!
Peace be with you!
HOW DARE YOU COME BACK AFTER A WEEK AND LECTURE US!

Welcome Back
😃
 
What does seperation of Church and State have to do with whether it is moral to vote for a pro-abortion canidate? Anyone who elected to office should not govern totally based on his/her personal religion/faith/, but take note that America has many religions/faiths/etc., and should respect each to his/her own values. A theocracy is bad for a country like ours.

I am willing to share all my votes with any one who asks-including the ones for McGovern and Carter!(“those who are not liberal when they are young have no heart, those who remain liberal as they mature have no mind”)
That is your choice as an American and as it should be. Again, I am not a liberal. It is bad enough “Big Brother” wants to make the Patriot Act the norm, I certainly don’t want the Vatican Police invading my privacy.
 
That is your choice as an American and as it should be. Again, I am not a liberal. It is bad enough “Big Brother” wants to make the Patriot Act the norm, I certainly don’t want the Vatican Police invading my privacy.
“Vatican Police”??? The only police the Vatican has is the conscience of the individual Catholic. Think about it.

Vote as you will and take moral responsibility for it.
 
That is your choice as an American and as it should be. Again, I am not a liberal. It is bad enough “Big Brother” wants to make the Patriot Act the norm, I certainly don’t want the Vatican Police invading my privacy.
No one is suggesting a thocracy and again I dont think anyone need any Church to tell them the shouldnt support killing our children.
 
Actually, according to the CCC, it is morally equivelent. Torture of prisoners is strictly prohibited under the doctrine of Just War. If the war is not just, then the pregnant woman and their infants killed so far are murder and forced abortion.
Nowhere does the Catechsim say torture of prisoners and abortion are morally equivalent. Certainly, it does not mention waterboarding or sleep deprivation (which are the things the left mentions when talking about how the U.S. tortures people) at all, anywhere. There’s a lot of difference. The guy who’s waterboarded survives the experience. The aborted child doesn’t. There is just no way that, e.g., my punching someone in the nose (which many would classify as torture) is as serious a sin as murder.

The Pope has not said either the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq are unjust wars. Nor does the CCC say it. It could be argued either way. Abortion cannot be argued either way. Both the Pope and the CCC say abortion is gravely immoral.

If you are going to vote for abortion, and it seems so, just do it, and admit that’s what you’re going to do.
 
40.png
Julianna:
Anyone who elected to office should not govern totally based on his/her personal religion/faith/, but take note that America has many religions/faiths/etc., and should respect each to his/her own values. A theocracy is bad for a country like ours.
Can you explain how that works exactly? Let’s say we have President A, whose faith tells him that Gay Marriage should be okay. By your reasoning, he should not make it legal out of respect for the values of those who don’t believe it is okay.

On the other hand, President B, whose faith tells him that Gay Marriage is not okay, should make it legal out of respect for the values of those who do believe it is okay.

See? It doesn’t work. The same reasoning can be applied to any “religious” issue. What works is for someone to do what their faith and conscience tells them is right when they are elected to office. In fact, it is the only way. It is not a theocracy, it is a democratic republic.
 
The truth hurts ,doesnt it? You are vote for those who support the gruesome dismemberment of children and then react in righteous indignation when someone points it out. I wish we saw as much outrage at those who support this butchery as we do those who oppose it.
Did I say that I am voting for or support a pro-“choice” candidate? No. So stop your baseless, satanic accusations.

I am in opposition to the lies and underlying evil of the core ideology of the Republican party. That does not automatically mean that I support the Democratic party? God forbid! I am in strong opposition to much of the Democratic platform as well. The difference is that there are many people pointing out the flaws in the Democratic party right here…some truthful (the pro-"choice stance, the support of immoral lifestyles, etc.) and some sheer lies (the accusation that Democrats are socialists). Very few will point out the truth about the evil that underlies the true core beliefs of Republicanism, namely, the worship and adoration of money and power above all else.

Therefore, I demand an apology.

Again, your refusal to acknowledge the complicity of high-ranking REPUBLICAN operatives and pols in forced abortions overseas does little to help your credibility.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top