politically liberal/trad catholic?

[zaida]

Hi everyone - I am hoping to chat privately with anyone who might consider themselves politically liberal and traditional catholic at the same time…Im struggling with some questions (personal to me) and Id rather have private posts, as I dont wnat to get into any forum wide political arguments, lol!

Thanks - if anyone is out there, please PM me!

Zaida

 

[Voting4Life]

That’s kind of an oxymoron.

 

[Esrb99]

That’s kind of an oxymoron.

Not necessarily. If one considers providing healthcare access (not with abortifacients, mind you) and mandating higher tax percentages for the wealthy that can go towards the betterment of those in need, I would say that is social liberalism that could be argued as aligned with traditional Catholicism.

Do I agree with that? Not necessarily. But I’d love to see some well-thought out points.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

I think people view politics in the wrong light when it comes to their Faith. It’s not about being a conservative or liberal it’s about being Catholic in all things. Meaning you’re not a politician who is Catholic, you’re a Catholic politician. You’re not a business man who is Catholic; you’re a Catholic business man. You’re not an American who is Catholic, you’re a Catholic American. Our Catholic Faith isn’t a part of who we are; it IS who we are!

When you vote as a Catholic you should vote for the candidate or laws that best uphold the Catholic Church’s position regardless of whether that candidate is republican or democrat or whether the laws are considered conservative or liberal to society. In short you should follow what the Church deems the correct course of action when deciding how,who, or what to vote for.

:twocents:

 

[jonbhorton]

Not necessarily. If one considers providing healthcare access (not with abortifacients, mind you) and mandating higher tax percentages for the wealthy that can go towards the betterment of those in need, I would say that is social liberalism that could be argued as aligned with traditional Catholicism.

Do I agree with that? Not necessarily. But I’d love to see some well-thought out points.

Check out this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=637613&page=7

That links to page 7 but there is ample information prior.

My interest in this link is admittedly personal, as I address a paper which is written along the lines of discussing said point- integrating “liberal” social policy into a more “traditional” society. I don’t see it as workable and it is more dangerous than people realize.

 

[OraLabora]

I think people view politics in the wrong light when it comes to their Faith. It’s not about being a conservative or liberal it’s about being Catholic in all things. Meaning you’re not a politician who is Catholic, you’re a Catholic politician. You’re not a business man who is Catholic; you’re a Catholic business man. You’re not an American who is Catholic, you’re a Catholic American. Our Catholic Faith isn’t a part of who we are; it IS who we are!

When you vote as a Catholic you should vote for the candidate or laws that best uphold the Catholic Church’s position regardless of whether that candidate is republican or democrat or whether the laws are considered conservative or liberal to society. In short you should follow what the Church deems the correct course of action when deciding how,who, or what to vote for.

:twocents:

No. The Church does not tell us who to vote for. She may suggest, even strongly, about certain views held by certain candidates (e.g. abortion or other grave moral issues), but otherwise voting is a matter of prudential judgement, and we should vote according to our (well-formed) conscience.

 

[sicutincensum]

If that helps, I consider myself a Catholic with a traditional sensibility (I love the EF and reverent liturgy in general), and most american conservatives would find my political/economical ideas very strange. I defend (“absolute”) monarchy, albeit tempered with a strong local democracy. I defend economic freedom and *laissez faire *in general, but I believe at the same time the State should act pragmatically in some areas (yes, healthcare, business regulation). I strongly oppose the american foreign policy (world policeman), and have some admiration for Russia. I strongly condemn the shoa, but I strongly oppose the legitimacy of the state of Israel.

In my country, the political system is not even remotely similar with that of the United States, it is not bipartisan. However, as a monarchist, I usually don’t vote, and I sometimes feel the “right wing” is so bad that I’d prefer voting for the communists, even though I have no simpathy for communism (indeed, it’s an evil ideology). So, I can understand why someone in the US prefers to vote for the democrats, even if I wouldn’t do it (if I was American, I’d support Ron Paul)…

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Hi everyone - I am hoping to chat privately with anyone who might consider themselves politically liberal and traditional catholic at the same time…Im struggling with some questions (personal to me) and Id rather have private posts, as I dont wnat to get into any forum wide political arguments, lol!

Thanks - if anyone is out there, please PM me!

Zaida

Well, I’m more of a political moderate, and I’m technically not a traditional Catholic, but I don’t see how they are incompatible. You sure can’t be a social liberal (like abortion or whatever), but a liberal with politics in the American sense of the word is compatible. If you support higher taxes to fund government spending, more government regulation, and support public-sector unions and a higher minimum wage, that’s all politically liberal, and compatible with Church teaching. In fact, some of it is more in line with Church teaching than conservative political views.

 

[Jeanne_S]

I think people view politics in the wrong light when it comes to their Faith. It’s not about being a conservative or liberal it’s about being Catholic in all things. Meaning you’re not a politician who is Catholic, you’re a Catholic politician. You’re not a business man who is Catholic; you’re a Catholic business man. You’re not an American who is Catholic, you’re a Catholic American. Our Catholic Faith isn’t a part of who we are; it IS who we are!

When you vote as a Catholic you should vote for the candidate or laws that best uphold the Catholic Church’s position regardless of whether that candidate is republican or democrat or whether the laws are considered conservative or liberal to society. In short you should follow what the Church deems the correct course of action when deciding how,who, or what to vote for.
Here Here!

:twocents:

 

[Swiss_Guy]

No. The Church does not tell us who to vote for. She may suggest, even strongly, about certain views held by certain candidates (e.g. abortion or other grave moral issues), but otherwise voting is a matter of prudential judgement, and we should vote according to our (well-formed) conscience.

:thumbsup

I think people view politics in the wrong light when it comes to their Faith. It’s not about being a conservative or liberal it’s about being Catholic in all things. Meaning you’re not a politician who is Catholic, you’re a Catholic politician. You’re not a business man who is Catholic; you’re a Catholic business man. You’re not an American who is Catholic, you’re a Catholic American. Our Catholic Faith isn’t a part of who we are; it IS who we are!

When you vote as a Catholic you should vote for the candidate or laws that best uphold the Catholic Church’s position regardless of whether that candidate is republican or democrat or whether the laws are considered conservative or liberal to society. In short you should follow what the Church deems the correct course of action when deciding how,who, or what to vote for.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

Hi everyone - I am hoping to chat privately with anyone who might consider themselves politically liberal and traditional catholic at the same time…Im struggling with some questions (personal to me) and Id rather have private posts, as I dont wnat to get into any forum wide political arguments, lol!

Thanks - if anyone is out there, please PM me!

Zaida

Well, the thing is, liberalism has been condemned. One of our previous Popes condemned it, and Vatican II furthered it. Saint John Henry Newman also condemned liberalism. I agree with what one poster said when he said that we need to put our political leanings aside and vote for what the Church approves of, but the Church has not approved liberalism and has in fact condemned it.

 

[jonbhorton]

Well, I’m more of a political moderate, and I’m technically not a traditional Catholic, but I don’t see how they are incompatible. You sure can’t be a social liberal (like abortion or whatever), but a liberal with politics in the American sense of the word is compatible.** If you support higher taxes to fund government spending, more government regulation, and support public-sector unions and a higher minimum wage, that’s all politically liberal, and compatible with Church teaching. **In fact, some of it is more in line with Church teaching than conservative political views.

Except that these things are absolutely not compatible with Church teaching, particularly as historically and factually implemented.

Such a position is either ignorant or blind fantasy in light of reality.

Abu already addressed each and every one of those claims in the thread I linked. I already have responded to your proposed system of a “Christian Democratic Welfare State” and the paper you linked me to which exposes why such a system is flawed in the present, completely unable to be introduced, and if introduced, would be outright murdered by the people it seeks to protect.

 

[essie7777]

Hi everyone - I am hoping to chat privately with anyone who might consider themselves politically liberal and traditional catholic at the same time…Im struggling with some questions (personal to me) and Id rather have private posts, as I dont wnat to get into any forum wide political arguments, lol!

Thanks - if anyone is out there, please PM me!

Zaida

I think it is possible to be both a traditional Catholic and a political liberal.

One thing though to consider though, is depending on where someone is from the phrase “politically liberal” can be have completely different meanings for people.

 

[essie7777]

Except that these things are absolutely not compatible with Church teaching, particularly as historically and factually implemented…Abu already addressed each and every one of those claims in the thread I linked./

This position supposes a very narrow view of Catholic Teaching that ignores the balanced approach that the Catholic Church takes with social teachings.

Catholic Social Teaching advocates balance, it acknowledges and addresses how the state should ‘play’ it’s part - social assistence for the unemployed, old, infirm and pregnant women.

It also condemns when this is used to go too far, when the state begins to control the individual and take away their freedoms and rights to ‘do’ for themselves that is wrong.

Actually Abu doesn’t answer any of the points raised by Swiss Guy. What happens is he repeats the same content without actually addressing directly whats’ asked. Those who advocate and ‘push’ Abu’s POV of ‘free enterprise’ (actually condemned directly by the Catholic Church) and an insistence that the Church condemns all welfare, only answer questioning or critical posts rarely, if ever.

This doesn’t help to progress discussion, a valid interpretation of Catholic Teaching should be able to used to explain any element of Catholic Teaching. A response that attacks the poster as being unable to ‘grasp’ what is being written is not a explanation. The thread you link is full of posts such as this, and not just to me!

 

[SwissGuard25]

Well in Political terms I don’t consider myself part of the Democrat Party nor the Republican Party. But more of a Christian Party

 

[Voting4Life]

Not necessarily. If one considers providing healthcare access (not with abortifacients, mind you) and mandating higher tax percentages for the wealthy that can go towards the betterment of those in need, I would say that is social liberalism that could be argued as aligned with traditional Catholicism.

Do I agree with that? Not necessarily. But I’d love to see some well-thought out points.

If you a Traditional Catholic you believe in the 5th Commandment; Thou Shalt Not Kill. If you are a liberal; your core views are centered on abortion and homosexual marriage. Some liberals also support taking money from the struggling middle class and giving it to the poor, but that never justifies the inseparable tie to murdering babies. Traditional Catholic and Liberal are kind of opposites.

 

[kozlosap]

If you a Traditional Catholic you believe in the 5th Commandment; Thou Shalt Not Kill. If you are a liberal; your core views are centered on abortion and homosexual marriage. Some liberals also support taking money from the struggling middle class and giving it to the poor, but that never justifies the inseparable tie to murdering babies. Traditional Catholic and Liberal are kind of opposites.

I would wager Mitt’s $10,000 that most people would not agree with your definitions of either Traditional or Liberal Catholic. Just saying…

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Step up to ride on the carousel…$2.00 each…Here we go again…

:whacky:

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

Let’s obey his wishes and discuss this no longer. He requested that we not turn this into an argument, and the first signs of one are appearing. Let’s all save ourselves the trouble and end this peacefully.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Except that these things are absolutely not compatible with Church teaching, particularly as historically and factually implemented.

Such a position is either ignorant or blind fantasy in light of reality.

Abu already addressed each and every one of those claims in the thread I linked. I already have responded to your proposed system of a “Christian Democratic Welfare State” and the paper you linked me to which exposes why such a system is flawed in the present, completely unable to be introduced, and if introduced, would be outright murdered by the people it seeks to protect.

My link I posted was a bad link for what I was trying to get across. Sorry for the trouble of refuting something that wasn’t really what I meant. Also, I have not been convinced by Abu, especially when the Catechism specifically states “efficient public services” as one of the responsibilities of the state (CCC 2431).

Anyway, I have no idea how government spending is incompatible with Church teaching, same with public-sector unions, same with a higher minimum wage, same with more government regulation. Plus, I never said I was for all of these things, but that they are some more liberal political views that a Catholic can take and be in good standing with the Church.