Politics and Family

[holyrood]

One of my children is getting married this weekend…amidst family members going at each other on facebook over politics. It was already happening, as my ex-husband’s relatives and two of my children are getting all over a couple of my other kids for their conservative values and politics.

But at the bachelor party last weekend, the son who’s getting married told his brother to keep politics out of it. His brother did so, but then when the groom to be got drunk and fell asleep, his friends started turning on video after video insulting conservatives and people of faith. My son asked them to stop, and they were quite blunt about saying they’d do as they please. This son is understandably upset that he was asked to refrain from politics and abided by that, but then was subject to insults from others, and they were apparently not called on it.

I am saddened that two of my kids seem to have been swayed by some of these current ideas, but even more so that they’re joining their dad’s relatives (and I’m betting my relatives, too, who are also quite liberal) in ganging up on their siblings.

I found myself advising my son today that he doesn’t have to put up with abuse, and can defriend, regardless of how anyone is related.

I’m sad it’s come to this, especially on the eve of a wedding, where several of us are now worried if people are going to start something…but I bet it’s a story happening in almost every family, these divisions over politics.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I’m sorry - it is difficult and this fallen world is full of such a variety of arrows.

Here is an article by Msgr. Charles Pope on discussion gay “marriage” with family - I think the principles relate to anything controversial - in case it might help you in your situation at all.

 

[St_Francis]

I’m sorry - it is difficult and this fallen world is full of such a variety of arrows.

Here is an article by Msgr. Charles Pope on discussion gay “marriage” with family - I think the principles relate to anything controversial - in case it might help you in your situation at all.

Great article! I highly recommend it, because he goes into detail of *how *to talk about this. Great timing too!

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I’m sad it’s come to this, especially on the eve of a wedding, where several of us are now worried if people are going to start something…but I bet it’s a story happening in almost every family, these divisions over politics.

Are we related? My family enacted several bans on political discussions at family gatherings, each time knowing full well that the only ones who would try to honor the ban were the conservative/religious minority. It got to the point that a couple people quit showing up to anything other than Christmas/Thanksgiving and funerals, while others cut ties entirely. Inevitably at these things, as the rhetoric heats up they insist on dragging in personal matters (real and imagined) and throwing around insults. One of the last ones we went to, the two sides were split into separate rooms. I don’t miss that.

 

[holyrood]

Thank you for the link. I have sent it on to the three of my children who are old enough to be involved in these discussions. I’m familiar with the Socratic method.

What I’m hoping, really, is that people can be decent enough to NOT discuss politics at a wedding.

Gordon, if only we were related, I might have some family LEFT. I have not gone to a family holiday for 7 years for exactly that reason–I honored my father’s request to sit down and be quiet and waited…in vain…for him to tell my sister to sit down, too, and quit screaming. I spent a few years inviting them to my kids’ graduation parties, and they came into my home, took my hospitality, and didn’t so much as say hello to me. After several of those incidents, I simply quit altogether. My alcoholic father’s next attempts were to leave me a dozen voicemails telling me what a loser I am and calling me names, and a year and a half later, sending me a letter telling me what a screw up I am as a mother and daughter, so let’s talk this out and I can come to their 50th anniversary and we can be a happy family again.

UGH. HEAD SMACK. Politics wasn’t even necessary. My goal for this wedding is to enjoy my new dress, smile and be pleasant and get home without too much trauma.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Gordon, if only we were related, I might have some family LEFT. I have not gone to a family holiday for 7 years for exactly that reason–I honored my father’s request to sit down and be quiet and waited…in vain…for him to tell my sister to sit down, too, and quit screaming. I spent a few years inviting them to my kids’ graduation parties, and they came into my home, took my hospitality, and didn’t so much as say hello to me. After several of those incidents, I simply quit altogether. My alcoholic father’s next attempts were to leave me a dozen voicemails telling me what a loser I am and calling me names, and a year and a half later, sending me a letter telling me what a screw up I am as a mother and daughter, so let’s talk this out and I can come to their 50th anniversary and we can be a happy family again.

UGH. HEAD SMACK. Politics wasn’t even necessary. My goal for this wedding is to enjoy my new dress, smile and be pleasant and get home without too much trauma.

Good luck. One of the crowning moments on my side was a couple years ago when a family member sent out an email complaining about how I had ruined the most recent family gathering with my bad attitude and mistreatment of a few people there, and that I was tearing apart the family. My offense was that I showed up with gifts for everyone then sat there and listened to the offended parties badmouth me and my wife both to our faces and behind our backs. I held my tongue out of respect for the person whose party it was, who had specifically asked everyone not to behave that way. When we got home, I found out how they’d treated our kids, which was even worse than we’d been treated. Because of that, when the next invitation came out I politely declined. I didn’t say anything negative but the assumption was that it was in retaliation for how we’d been treated, which the guilty parties had already denied doing even though we never brought it up or accused them of it (several others who had witnessed it and were disgusted by it had). When the person who hosted that next party told everyone we weren’t coming, one response (minus the expletives) was that we weren’t needed and that we could stay at home with our Bibles and guns. This was offered as further proof of our attempts to destroy the family.

 

[holyrood]

Good luck. One of the crowning moments on my side was a couple years ago when a family member sent out an email complaining about how I had ruined the most recent family gathering with my bad attitude and mistreatment of a few people there, and that I was tearing apart the family. My offense was that I showed up with gifts for everyone then sat there and listened to the offended parties badmouth me and my wife both to our faces and behind our backs. I held my tongue out of respect for the person whose party it was, who had specifically asked everyone not to behave that way. When we got home, I found out how they’d treated our kids, which was even worse than we’d been treated. Because of that, when the next invitation came out I politely declined. I didn’t say anything negative but the assumption was that it was in retaliation for how we’d been treated, which the guilty parties had already denied doing even though we never brought it up or accused them of it (several others who had witnessed it and were disgusted by it had). When the person who hosted that next party told everyone we weren’t coming, one response (minus the expletives) was that we weren’t needed and that we could stay at home with our Bibles and guns. This was offered as further proof of our attempts to destroy the family.

I think there was a time in my life when I would hardly have believed this story–except that I’ve seen it for myself. Yes, I’ve done the same, held my tongue out of respect for whoever’s event it was (this weekend, my son’s wedding, yes, I’ll do the same), and yet somehow still being accused of being at fault.

I kid you not–my sister took my daughter to babysit, never returned her, I came home from work 24 hours later, surprised she wasn’t home, called around, and my sister yelled at me that she had no idea where my daughter was, I called around some more, called that sister to say, next time let me know where you’re taking her, and this sister chewed me out for actually having the gall to ask where my own daughter was.

Sadly, I have seen first hand how irrational people can be, and how good at assigning blame where you’d think no rational mind could possibly do so.

This is what I’m spending my weekend with. Nice dress, new heels, love my new DIL, and hope the kids in question grow up soon…

 

[Inisfallen]

I’ve seen this in my own family.

We pretty much run the gamut of political belief – my wife and I, and one of my brothers and his wife, and my father, are all quite liberal, but my sister and her husband are very conservative (in that they’re Reagan-style Republicans) and there’s another brother who is extremely conservative (in that he’s basically a Tea Partier who supports Donald Trump for president and thinks the Second Amendment is the fount from which all our freedoms flow and also that President Obama may not actually be Constitutionally qualified to be president).

Mostly, we get along. None of us will discuss politics with the Tea Party brother, because he tends to get a bit out of control. Otherwise we’re OK. But it took a while to get it all figured out.

 

[EasterJoy]

Well, it looks like as long as the groom doesn’t pass out, you’re good.

Seriously, though, it isn’t too uncommon when bachelor parties, especially bachelor parties that go past when they ought to be over, turn out to be the low-water mark of civility of all the festivities surrounding a wedding.

Notice two other things: a) nobody plays their own videos to entertain themselves at wedding receptions and b) neither the father of the bride nor the father of the groom were there when the “guests” decided to be jerks to their host.

If things start to simmer up again at the reception, the best man or the groom needs to let the offenders know that the hosts–his parents and his bride’s parents–will not hesitate ask anyone who isn’t behaving to leave the reception. No fooling: Grow Up. If you guys are going to get drunk and make a nuisance of yourselves, then find a room for the night, shut the door, and don’t bother the other guests at the hotel. If they don’t behave themselves after the groom tells them they are upsetting his parents and his new in-laws, have them escorted out.

 

[holyrood]

If things start to simmer up again at the reception, the best man or the groom needs to let the offenders know that the hosts–his parents and his bride’s parents–will not hesitate ask anyone who isn’t behaving to leave the reception. No fooling: Grow Up. If you guys are going to get drunk and make a nuisance of yourselves, then find a room for the night, shut the door, and don’t bother the other guests at the hotel. If they don’t behave themselves after the groom tells them they are upsetting his parents and his new in-laws, have them escorted out.

I am not thrilled that my son is drinking to this point. Although apparently it wasn’t strictlty speaking ‘passing out,’ but more like falling asleep.

My fear is that the groom/my son will NOT ask people to behave themselves and leave politics out of it, but will expect one group to not bring up politics AND to remain silent while they are being insulted by the other group who IS allowed to bring up politics.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I think there was a time in my life when I would hardly have believed this story–except that I’ve seen it for myself. Yes, I’ve done the same, held my tongue out of respect for whoever’s event it was (this weekend, my son’s wedding, yes, I’ll do the same), and yet somehow still being accused of being at fault.

I kid you not–my sister took my daughter to babysit, never returned her, I came home from work 24 hours later, surprised she wasn’t home, called around, and my sister yelled at me that she had no idea where my daughter was, I called around some more, called that sister to say, next time let me know where you’re taking her, and this sister chewed me out for actually having the gall to ask where my own daughter was.

Sadly, I have seen first hand how irrational people can be, and how good at assigning blame where you’d think no rational mind could possibly do so.

This is what I’m spending my weekend with. Nice dress, new heels, love my new DIL, and hope the kids in question grow up soon…

Thankfully we learned early on not to let our kids spend time alone with the problematic ones in the family. The things we had to deal with from the times they were around them with us were bad enough. A few instances got us called down to the school to talk to the principal when one of our kids recounted something a family member had done or talked about.

As far as blame goes, I’ve noticed that, at least in my case, the rest of the family tends to go with the crowd, no matter the circumstances. We’ve been blamed for things that happened at parties we didn’t attend. One family member was very open about her intent and efforts to ruin a big event for another family member, going so far as to send emails out about it. When it blew up in her face, she had the numbers on her side so the one whose event was mostly ruined was blamed by the rest of the family.

Unfortunately, no matter how insane it gets, there doesn’t seem to be any viable recourse other than stooping to their level, enduring the abuse or leaving. At least, that’s been my experience. The majority closes ranks and the others stick with them either out of habit or fear of becoming a victim. The people I’ve talked to in similar situations don’t like my advice but I haven’t found anything that works.

 

[holyrood]

Gordon, I hear you. Yes, I withdrew from my family based on advice here, saying there is NOTHING that can be done to make peace with an alcoholic family. (And probably other dysfunctional sorts, too.)

My sister has had major melt downs at a number of people over the last 25 years, while I lived 2000 miles away, including sales clerks and 6 year old neighbor children–yet I was told her melt down was my fault.

There really is nothing to do but walk away.

Unfortunately, by the time I did so, we lived very close to my family again, and the older of my kids were old enough I couldn’t forbid them to spend time with these people. So they go spend time with them and drink their Kool-Aid.

I can only hope and pray they somehow, someday, see the problems. A couple of them have now been subjected to that sister’s attacks, so I think bit by bit, they’ll learn–unfortunately, the hard way–that these people are your friend only as long as you toe the company line.

 

[holyrood]

Is your son getting married in church?

No. His fiancee is from a very Christian family, but they are not Catholic. They’re having a ceremony at a historical site.

 

[SilverLight]

I just wanted to say in my family we avoid talking about two things:

1. Religion
2. Politics

Why?
Because it seems to just end in everyone walking away in anger.

I would advise not getting into political discussions if things are already heated.

 

[holyrood]

Thank you for taking the time to answer me. I asked, because I was going to suggest that you focus on the ceremony itself rather than the potential behavior of guests at the reception party and I wanted to know where it was.

Your beautiful son is marrying into a Christian family! Rejoice in this, THIS needs to be your focus. The most important thing happening that day is a woman is vowing to spend the rest of her life with your son, focus on the ceremony, the beauty of the vows they are taking and how beautiful that will be.

Don’t let satan rob you of your peace by getting you to worry over behavior of guests that may not even happen. Generally speaking, people are likely to behave themselves at a wedding, late-night-drinking-bachelor-party behavior is not necessarily a prerequisite to what is going to happen at a wedding. People are usually dressed up, there is music and flowers and a beautiful bride and handsome groom that everyone is focused on so just the atmosphere itself can bring out the best in people! Prayers for a beautiful wedding and peace of mind for you.

Wise words, and thank you!

 

[holyrood]

I just wanted to say in my family we avoid talking about two things:

1. Religion
2. Politics

Why?
Because it seems to just end in everyone walking away in anger.

I would advise not getting into political discussions if things are already heated.

You’re preaching to the choir. I was glad to hear that my older son DID honor his brother’s request, for the sake of peace, out of respect to his brother. My concern is that those same people will–as happened at the bachelor party–continue saying things that are insulting and offensive to those of Catholic, Christian, or conservative beliefs, forcing my kids into a position of stand up for themselves and be accused of ‘causing trouble’ or be silent in the face of abuse.

I talked briefly to my sons, 15 and 18, about what happened tonight on social media, and they seemed to take it in stride. I was proud of them. I have every reason to believe they will behave with decorum no matter what XH’s relatives throw at them this weekend. Hopefully, of course, XH’s relatives (and my own) will also behave with decorum.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I’ve seen this in my own family.

We pretty much run the gamut of political belief – my wife and I, and one of my brothers and his wife, and my father, are all quite liberal, but my sister and her husband are very conservative (in that they’re Reagan-style Republicans) and there’s another brother who is extremely conservative (in that he’s basically a Tea Partier who supports Donald Trump for president and thinks the Second Amendment is the fount from which all our freedoms flow and also that President Obama may not actually be Constitutionally qualified to be president).

Mostly, we get along. None of us will discuss politics with the Tea Party brother, because he tends to get a bit out of control. Otherwise we’re OK. But it took a while to get it all figured out.

That’s not “extremely” conservative, my friend.

 

[Anglewannabe]

My fear is that the groom/my son will NOT ask people to behave themselves and leave politics out of it, but will expect one group to not bring up politics AND to remain silent while they are being insulted by the other group who IS allowed to bring up politics.

I am so sorry you are going through this. However, with all due respect, the groom and the bride decide what tone to set at the wedding. I think your idea of just enjoying your new dress is probably the best way to go

 

[EasterJoy]

I am not thrilled that my son is drinking to this point. Although apparently it wasn’t strictlty speaking ‘passing out,’ but more like falling asleep.

My fear is that the groom/my son will NOT ask people to behave themselves and leave politics out of it, but will expect one group to not bring up politics AND to remain silent while they are being insulted by the other group who IS allowed to bring up politics.

If his dad and his father-in-law-to-be take him aside and formulate a plan for how to deal with unpleasant people at the reception, great. I would think, however, that the groom will want the opportunity to talk to his friends himself, rather than having the fathers lower the boom without giving him that chance.

Hosts who ask misbehaving guests to leave are not out of place; in fact, they’re out of place if they don’t. If the parents are not hosting, the fathers still need to ask if the bridal couple want their parents to have to leave.

If there is an agreed-upon plan put into place in advance, there will be less upset when it unfortunately has to be employed. The groom will know his father and father-in-law are quite serious, should it come to that. If the groom would like to bring his best man in to handle this, that is quite within the job of the best man, too.

Have a plan, though, and don’t let that plan be that one guy with essentially no authority is stuck trying to convince people to behave when complying with the requests of a host has not been their modus operandi in the recent past. Since “you can’t make me” has been their recent response to such reasonable requests, it makes sense to have an “oh no? watch us” plan in place.

 

[holyrood]

To my knowledge, there was no political discussion.

One of my siblings, however, did feel it necessary to pull aside my friend who escorted me to the wedding, and see if she could rope him into joining them in pressuring me to go back to my assigned role in their alcoholic family. She explained to him that he’s ‘the only one who can reach me,’ that I’m driving away my children and all of them, that my dad has changed a lot since 20 years ago (ignoring that his threats and ugly letters and voice mails were very recent), and that I’m simply wrong in thinking they talk about me–while she’s talking about me.

My friend was quite horrified that she felt the need to try to draw him into things against me at all, never mind at my own son’s wedding. This, of course, is WHY I stay away from them.