Poll for Protestants. Do you believe in Sola Scriptura?

  • Thread starter Thread starter WesleyF
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Does the catholic church sell indulgences today? Do they do anything of the sort? I think that the reformationists decided that it was way too difficult to just continue trying to correct the one Church at the time, leaving behind the idea of oneness that our faith fathers so taught. There were many changes in the reformation that could have gone without I.e. divorce and the King, the Reformation was greatly aided by the King of England, and there were many changes in the counter-reformation that were for the better. Because of Luther’s diversion from the Catholic Church, this slowed down most progession the Catholic Church had, and set up many different sections, dissecting the one Church founded on Christ. There have been many other reformers in the Catholic faith that have brought the church back to good standing.

St. Catherine of Siena
newadvent.org/cathen/03447a.htm

St. Thomas Aquinas
newadvent.org/cathen/14663b.htm

There are many saints, and many people, such as Luther, who attempt to help put the Church back on track, and if it weren’t for the idea that we can just ‘leave our problems behind’ even though great trial. Then there wouldn’t be ‘protestantism.’ For how many times in the bible do we hear things like:
I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
Click to expand...
1 Corinthians 1:10 (NIV)

However, I am not in the place to say that other churches are not part of the Body of Christ, because I firmly and undoubtly believe that where For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them, and the requirements are that they must be baptized and truly believe in their heart that Jesus died and rose again for us. But I beg that you all help continuing in pray that we can once again be One, Holy, catholic, and apostolic. Which I use little c, because thats what is meant in the Creed which Catholic and methodists and I am sure other faiths pronounce, universal. Apostolic means we recognize the 12 apostles and their role in the Church. There will be a day where we mustn’t argue about which church is right or which is wrong, but we will trust so much in the Holy Spirit to guide us that we will be brought to unity. Until that day, I hope you know that you all are my brothers and sisters, and to persevere in keeping things from splitting even more according to personal needs, for we are members of the Church, not the church members of US.

  1. *]The Bible is the only source of faith; it contains the plenary inspiration of God; its reading is invested with a quasi-sacramental character.
    *]Human nature has been totally corrupted by original sin, and man, accordingly, is deprived of free will. Whatever he does, be it good or bad, is not his own work, but God’s.
    *]Faith alone can work justification, and man is saved by confidently believing that God will pardon him. This faith not only includes a full pardon of sin, but also an unconditional release from its penalties.
    *]The hierarchy and priesthood are not Divinely instituted or necessary, and ceremonial or exterior worship is not essential or useful. Ecclesiastical vestments, pilgrimages, mortifications, monastic vows, prayers for the dead, intercession of saints, avail the soul nothing.
    *]All sacraments, with the exception of baptism, Holy Eucharist, and penance, are rejected, but their absence may be supplied by faith.
    *]The priesthood is universal; every Christian may assume it. A body of specially trained and ordained men to dispense the mysteries of God is needless and a usurpation.
    *]There is no visible Church or one specially established by God whereby men may work out their salvation
Click to expand...

  1. .

    Martin Luther’s new ‘rules’
    newadvent.org/cathen/09438b.htm

    He, at one point, said that at the Last supper, Jesus was not referring to the bread when he said ‘this is my body, this is my blood’ but himself. How absurd!
    even paul reiterates…
    …and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
    Click to expand...
    1 Corinthians 11:24

    God bless you!

    p.s. Might I add, that never once has the Church wavered in her doctrines. Never once during the medieval times, nor during today. They remain pure as they did years and years ago. Only the people in the church messed up, and that is not something we should blame on the Church it self, the spiritual home instituted by Christ.

    I hope this all makes sense, if not please feel free to question or correct me.
 
lightsalt said:
Yes, Agreed. You make a good point, so I must ask you, Do you believe in the inerrant Word of God?

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. (2Ti 3:16-17)

God is no author of confusion, but of order. Therefore the cry of the reformers as sola scriptura was not to create any schism in the church, but to try to bring the church back to God’s Word. And this because the church was giving far too much prominence to tradition, and making the Word take a ‘back seat’.
This was creating divisions within the church over practices such as the sale of indulgences in order to build a cathedral.
The reformers were simply trying to put the focus back on God’s Kingdom, and away from the desires of man.
The words sola scriptura do not hold the same weight today due to all that has transpired since then.

lightsalt
Click to expand...
I agree that the church did unwisely not hold Scripture to such a level as it should be, for it is truth manifested, the Word of God. That has completely changed though, thanks to the counter-reformation, and many of the ones who were moved by Christ to fix what we may mess up. There is so much today calling us to be one, but with such separation between the different churches it is so difficult.
 
Abiien said:
I agree that the church did unwisely not hold Scripture to such a level as it should.
Click to expand...
Hello Abiien, Thank you for your reply.
You wisely stated your agreement that “the church did unwisely not hold to Scripture…”
But this has not “completely changed though, thanks to the counter-reformation,” as you say, for the catholic church continues to fly their tradition in the face of God’s commands.
This is what led to the reformers cry of ‘sola scriptura’ in the first place, around the beginning of the 16th century. Sola Scriptura is not intended as a denial of all authorities governing Christian life and devotion. It simply demands that the authorities are subordinate to, and are to be corrected by, the written word of God.

One of the issues that Catholics abuse their privilege of authority concerns the veneration of images. This appears to be nothing less than plain and simple idolatry which is condemned by God in Scripture.
The Catholic Church teaches that such veneration is part of a new economy of images that is now permitted by God in view of the truth of the Incarnation of Christ.
The difference needs to be Truthfully addressed, however, since Jesus Christ was a God-made fulfillment of Scripture, and statues are man-made, lifeless forms.

According to the church, icons of Christ (as well as of Mary, angels, and Saints) do not violate the intent of the first commandment.
Since the only thing found in Scripture warns against such practice, and God’s Word never recants itself, it stands to reason that the only way that the church holds the authority to venerate images is that they have given this authority to themselves.

For this reason, we turn back to Scripture, and find the following teaching:

Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

Since I am not permitted to voe in this poll, I would like to cast a vote by proxy of Yes. Scripture Alone, until the Word of God requests otherwise.

May our Lord richly bless you,
lightsalt
 
lightsalt said:
Hello Abiien, Thank you for your reply.
You wisely stated your agreement that “the church did unwisely not hold to Scripture…”
But this has not “completely changed though, thanks to the counter-reformation,” as you say, for the catholic church continues to fly their tradition in the face of God’s commands.
This is what led to the reformers cry of ‘sola scriptura’ in the first place, around the beginning of the 16th century. Sola Scriptura is not intended as a denial of all authorities governing Christian life and devotion. It simply demands that the authorities are subordinate to, and are to be corrected by, the written word of God.

One of the issues that Catholics abuse their privilege of authority concerns the veneration of images. This appears to be nothing less than plain and simple idolatry which is condemned by God in Scripture.
The Catholic Church teaches that such veneration is part of a new economy of images that is now permitted by God in view of the truth of the Incarnation of Christ.
The difference needs to be Truthfully addressed, however, since Jesus Christ was a God-made fulfillment of Scripture, and statues are man-made, lifeless forms.

According to the church, icons of Christ (as well as of Mary, angels, and Saints) do not violate the intent of the first commandment.
Since the only thing found in Scripture warns against such practice, and God’s Word never recants itself, it stands to reason that the only way that the church holds the authority to venerate images is that they have given this authority to themselves.

For this reason, we turn back to Scripture, and find the following teaching:

Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

Since I am not permitted to voe in this poll, I would like to cast a vote by proxy of Yes. Scripture Alone, until the Word of God requests otherwise.

May our Lord richly bless you,
lightsalt
Click to expand...
I like this discussion, LS.

I will look into this and see whats up, if not… there may be another reform needed in the church 😉
 
I started to say I dont know cause I dunno what definition we are talking about. But i said no.

Based on the typical definitions I do not believe in Sola Scriptura. but rather Prima Scriptura. Scripture not alone, but first.
 
Sola Scriptura is a harsh doctrine IMO … only because it requires (logically speaking) adopting the theology of men like John Calvin and Theodor Beza (and I don’t care what anyone says, I studied theology enough to know Calvin described scripture better than anyone, save Paul).

At least the Catholics, Methodists, and the only ones I sort of like … Episcopalians, make it up as they go along (to take the harsh sting out of scripture).

I guess if you’re going to believe in a fairy tale you might as well upgrade and modernize it so it has some usefulness in contemporary society right?
 
Abiien said:
I like this discussion, LS.

I will look into this and see whats up, if not… there may be another reform needed in the church 😉
Click to expand...
Thank you Abiien, and Lord bless. (o:

I was once catholic but have learned more about the church in the last three years than all the time in parochial school, St. Peter’s.

I recently attended a large local parish called Lumen Christi for an evening class that lasted seven weeks. It was advertised in the paper as an opportunity to get my questions answered, but all I got was smoke and mirrors. (sorry)

The class facilitator did compliment me after the class, though. He said I made him feel shame towards his Bible knowledge, and when he gets home, he would start reading it.
(praise God)

lightsalt
 
humble_in_doubt said:
Sola Scriptura is a harsh doctrine IMO … only because it requires (logically speaking) adopting the theology of men like John Calvin and Theodor Beza (and I don’t care what anyone says, I studied theology enough to know Calvin described scripture better than anyone, save Paul).

At least the Catholics, Methodists, and the only ones I sort of like … Episcopalians, make it up as they go along (to take the harsh sting out of scripture).

I guess if you’re going to believe in a fairy tale you might as well upgrade and modernize it so it has some usefulness in contemporary society right?
Click to expand...
I am sorry, but what you are describing is the worship of a god that is manufactured to your own comforts.

You cannot pick and choose which verses of Scripture to follow, and you must consider the context of all verses to determine what was the message that the original human author was trying to convey. Or else you have as many interpretations that you have readers of God’s Word. God is sovereign.

lightsalt
 
lightsalt said:
I am sorry, but what you are describing is the worship of a god that is manufactured to your own comforts.

You cannot pick and choose which verses of Scripture to follow, and you must consider the context of all verses to determine what was the message that the original human author was trying to convey. Or else you have as many interpretations that you have readers of God’s Word. God is sovereign.

lightsalt
Click to expand...
right … you’re probably a Calvinist (who as I say in any post I’ve ever written on this board are the only theologically consistent Christians). Of course I choose to follow no invisible god. It all amounts to ancient mythology to me … I say where is this god you claim exists? Why do the gods of every religion only show themselves to ancient men who are long dead? Why is there always a profound reason why they don’t show themselves in such obvious ways today (besides the sometimes strange and mystical claims of people who even most Christians think are weird)? Hmmm … the “profound reason” is it’s not true.

Of course I respect your view & would always defend your right to believe whatever it is you want to believe (who can compel anyone not to believe in something right). It’s your right to believe pink elephants fly around at night in New York City … but it wouldn’t make it true?
 
humble_in_doubt said:
right … you’re probably a Calvinist (who as I say in any post I’ve ever written on this board are the only theologically consistent Christians). Of course I choose to follow no invisible god. It all amounts to ancient mythology to me … I say where is this god you claim exists? Why do the gods of every religion only show themselves to ancient men who are long dead? Why is there always a profound reason why they don’t show themselves in such obvious ways today (besides the sometimes strange and mystical claims of people who even most Christians think are weird)? Hmmm … the “profound reason” is it’s not true.

Of course I respect your view & would always defend your right to believe whatever it is you want to believe (who can compel anyone not to believe in something right). It’s your right to believe pink elephants fly around at night in New York City … but it wouldn’t make it true?
Click to expand...
I believe the author of Hebrews said it best:

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.(1:1,2)
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double‑edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. (4:12)

lightsalt
 
lightsalt said:
I believe the author of Hebrews said it best:

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.(1:1,2)
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double‑edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. (4:12)

lightsalt
Click to expand...
I think the blade is getting dull:)
 
lightsalt said:
Oh, I see. Do you think that God’s perfection is wearing down? There are a increasin number of non-believers in these last days. It is not God’s fault, He predicted it.
Click to expand...
we’re always quickly approaching the “last days” right? Paranoid mythology …
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top