Poll: Gift of praying in tongues

[thistle]

in our diocese, San Francisco, we have a Liason to the Archbishop for the charismatic renewal. Most dioceses have this from what I know. This person, a priest btw, is the middle man between the archbishop and the renewal. I think that this is a good way of having the church discern the charismatic gifts, because he does.

here is a link that talks about the different varieties of the gift of tongues, because not all of tongues are for other people to understand, although I do agree that some are:

part 1
catholiccharismatic.us/ccc/articles/Van_Cleef/Gifts/tongues_a.html

part 2
catholiccharismatic.us/ccc/articles/Van_Cleef/Gifts/tongues_b.html

Sorry but a group cannot be discerned. Discernment by the Church is at individual level. People make the mistake that because a charismatic group is approved to hold meetings, services etc that means it is approved that those participating have their claims to speak in tongues approved. It does not.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

Part of the liason’s duty is to be on top of the charismatic renewal in the diocese where he serves. I would assume that they do their jobs well. I think that you should read more about the gift of tongues, it will help you to understand how so many can receive this.

God bless you!

 

[plan19]

Part of the liason’s duty is to be on top of the charismatic renewal in the diocese where he serves. I would assume that they do their jobs well. I think that you should read more about the gift of tongues, it will help you to understand how so many can receive this.

God bless you!

While we’re suggesting someone do reading…

Why don’t you read The Little Flowers of Saint Francis?
Here it is at Google

… specifically check out the chapter entitled “Of the wonderful Discourse which St Anthony of Padua made in the Consistory”

There is a true example of the gift of tongues.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

I love that book! I have read it at least twice and few times skimming through it as well. I am so suprised that you mention this becuase that book makes me what to be a charismtic even more: St. Francis was so charismatic that that book glows!

Didn’t St. Francis and his brothers sing in the Spirit? St. Paul calls singing in the Spirit the gift of tongues in 1 Cor 14:15

 

[plan19]

I love that book! I have read it at least twice and few times skimming through it as well. I am so suprised that you mention this becuase that book makes me what to be a charismtic even more: St. Francis was so charismatic that that book glows!

Didn’t St. Francis and his brothers sing in the Spirit? St. Paul calls singing in the Spirit the gift of tongues in 1 Cor 14:15

St. Francis didn’t babble nonsense. Re-read the passage. He spoke his native language, and by the power of the Holy Spirit, each foreign listener heard it as his own language. No gibberish.

Neither did they “sing in the spirit”. Sorry, man. I love your enthusiasm, but I feel as though it’s misdirected because of bad information.

 

[aingil]

Gee, I can take select quotes from the Bible out of context as well (I can also read something into said quotes other than what was being said, if you would like). Which case would you like me to support? Seriously. Pick one. How about child abuse?

Did you READ all of the first letter, or did you just read that verse because someone told you to? Check out verses 6-14.

God created you, and gave you the faculties to speak the language you do. He understands that language as well as any other. Which prophets did God speak to in a language other than what they speak? What people did Christ speak to in a language other than what they speak? On what basis do you know that language IS God’s language?

This concept of “tongues” is nonsense, and exists only for the benefit of your self esteem that you might impress others. You need “proof” that God exists… and you have “tongues”.

Joe and Bob are in church. Joe and Bob’s church are native speakers of English. So are Joe and Bob.

Tongues scenario

Joe speaks in “tongues” to Bob.

Bob “interprets” the “tongues” into English so that everyone can understand.

The Holy Spirit is not a show-off. Joe and Bob, however, are. This is why I mentioned Lot. It applies.

So what you are saying is that the only reason the Holy Spirit would do something like that is to show off? How do you know? Because you reasoned through it and it fits with your understanding? I would rather look at the fruit. Which is a biblical way of discerning something. Give God permission and he does what he wants with you. He lights a fire in your soul. That is my experience with the renewal. The vocations that have flourished as a result are a good not a coincidence.

 

[plan19]

So what you are saying is that the only reason the Holy Spirit would do something like that is to show off? How do you know? Because you reasoned through it and it fits with your understanding? I would rather look at the fruit. Which is a biblical way of discerning something. Give God permission and he does what he wants with you. He lights a fire in your soul. That is my experience with the renewal. The vocations that have flourished as a result are a good not a coincidence.

I know because Christ refused to provide proof of his divinity when asked.

You can provide absolutely no evidence of any saint ever having spoken in gibberish.
You can provide absolutely no evidence that the tongues of the Bible is, in fact, gibberish.

I know WHY charismatics cling to the concept of gibberish being a valid gift of the spirit… it’s an evidence-based reinforcement of faith.

The fact that said evidence is a quid-pro-quo for faith in many cases, though… saddens me.

 

[aingil]

I know because Christ refused to provide proof of his divinity when asked.

You can provide absolutely no evidence of any saint ever having spoken in gibberish.
You can provide absolutely no evidence that the tongues of the Bible is, in fact, gibberish.

I know WHY charismatics cling to the concept of gibberish being a valid gift of the spirit… it’s an evidence-based reinforcement of faith.

The fact that said evidence is a quid-pro-quo for faith in many cases, though… saddens me.

So you know how the mind of God works? This is not about the Holy Spirit providing proof. It’s about how he chooses to work. I have never prayed in tongues. But I have been prayed over in tongues, it increases my desire for God, love of the Eucharist, and it has opened up avenues for more prayer in many communities. I mean many Catholics I know are afraid to even pray out loud in English in their own words. How are we supposed to witness to the truth if people are fearful and embarrassed or just without words when it comes to talking about God. I’m not saying that everyone has to be prayed over in tongues or anything ridiculous like that. I’m saying that if the fruits are good, then maybe you should not be so quick to dismiss it just because you reasoned out in your own head that the Holy Spirit wouldn’t work like that.

 

[Hiskid1973]

I think some just equate “tongues” with just what happened in Acts…Remember what Paul said about praying in the Spirit and with understanding…Groanings that can’t be put to words in prayer…

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

St. Francis didn’t babble nonsense. Re-read the passage. He spoke his native language, and by the power of the Holy Spirit, each foreign listener heard it as his own language. No gibberish.

Neither did they “sing in the spirit”. Sorry, man. I love your enthusiasm, but I feel as though it’s misdirected because of bad information.

When I spoke about St. Frnacis “singing in the Spirit” I was referring to another chapter of that book. I will get back to you regarding where exactly that is in the Little Flowers, I have to borrow a copy from Church and read through it again.

God bless you and let’s keep this discussion going.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

Hi eveyone,

thank you so much for all who have contributed to making this poll and thread possible. I just thought that I would interject here and offer to those who might have an interest in a Life in the Spirit seminar which can be listened to now. You will be helped to yeild to the gfit on tongues at the end of the talks. Praise the Lord!

here is the link:
youtube.com/view_play_list?p=AF1A6C1B09F6B7D9

Also, if you are interested, check out at your parish or near yours where you might be able to attend a charismatic prayer group. This is the best way to know whether or not God would like you to embrace this grace.

peace be with you

 

[plan19]

When I spoke about St. Frnacis “singing in the Spirit” I was referring to another chapter of that book. I will get back to you regarding where exactly that is in the Little Flowers, I have to borrow a copy from Church and read through it again.

God bless you and let’s keep this discussion going.

No need for a book… Google thankfully digitized the entire volume. Check out that link I provided to their copy of Little Flowers… the table of contents is hotlinked.

Absolutely… I love meeting others that are passionate in their beliefs, whether we agree or not. Anyone who can truly call themselves Philothea is truly blessed.

Whether you believe me or not… I am sincerely happy we’ve crossed paths.

 

[mangy_dog]

I wanted to try to find out whre the posters here stand regarding the gift of tongues. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut!

The gift of tongues or glossolalia is an individual gift. To help us pray with the Spirit from our spirit. It is a very humbling gift in that we may not know what we are saying to God but the Holy Spirit prays with us to the Father.

I’m not a theologian nor anything close to it. This is as best as I can say. It is not a gift to be using in public unless there is someone who has the gift of interpretation.

That’s another whole ball of wax

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

The gift of tongues or glossolalia is an individual gift. To help us pray with the Spirit from our spirit. It is a very humbling gift in that we may not know what we are saying to God but the Holy Spirit prays with us to the Father.

I’m not a theologian nor anything close to it. This is as best as I can say. It is not a gift to be using in public unless there is someone who has the gift of interpretation.

That’s another whole ball of wax

I am glad that you believe in the gift Mangy. I sing in the Spirit in private and it has helped me so many times and in so many ways that I can’t possibly number them all. As far as praying in tongues in a group, there is some confusion about whether or not St. Paul was forbidding praying in the Spirit or speaking in the Spirit. The former needs no interpretation because it is prayer directed solely to God. The latter does need an interpretation and so we believe that this is what St. Paul was speaking of.

As cattholics, we definately need the church when trying to understand what the bible is saying becuase it is not always perfectly clear. We have not only a scriptural mentality, but also we accept the guidance of our magisterium. As it stands, the charismatic renewal has always prayed in tongues aloud, for this kind of prayer needs no interpretation. We are not a scripture alone Church! Well we do of course accept all of scripture, but we must be obediant to our leadership in the understanding of it.

“No need to fear the Charismatic Renewal”, says Fr. Cantallamessa, the papal preacher to the vatican. here is a link to what he has said:

zenit.org/article-8271?l=english

 

[Monica4316]

I know because Christ refused to provide proof of his divinity when asked.

You can provide absolutely no evidence of any saint ever having spoken in gibberish.
You can provide absolutely no evidence that the tongues of the Bible is, in fact, gibberish.

I know WHY charismatics cling to the concept of gibberish being a valid gift of the spirit… it’s an evidence-based reinforcement of faith.

The fact that said evidence is a quid-pro-quo for faith in many cases, though… saddens me.

Hi Plan19, I don’t pray in tongues but I know people who do, and I don’t think that they do it because it’s an “evidence-based reinforcement for faith.” I’ve asked some people why they pray in tongues and one of the responses was that sometimes we don’t know what to pray for, and this is the Spirit interceding through us. Others have said it’s to intercede in a powerful way. But nothing about needing evidence… so i’m not sure that this is actually how people see praying in tongues.

God bless

 

[sauce]

I know because Christ refused to provide proof of his divinity when asked.

You can provide absolutely no evidence of any saint ever having spoken in gibberish.
You can provide absolutely no evidence that the tongues of the Bible is, in fact, gibberish.

I know WHY charismatics cling to the concept of gibberish being a valid gift of the spirit… it’s an evidence-based reinforcement of faith.

The fact that said evidence is a quid-pro-quo for faith in many cases, though… saddens me.

Why so angry? A little joy may lift your spirit. Gibberish is a subjective word.
It’s not the sound that matters. It’s the yielding. One gives their “tongue” to
God. No tickie, no laundry. As the Spirit gives “utterance.”

And if you don’t ever speak in tongues, that’s OK. It’s more than OK. A gift is never
forced on someone. It’s available though.

 

[TOP]

I voted "no’ in that I don’t want this gift. From what I’ve seen , it has caused division so I question the source. Besides, who would want another “thorn” as not to become too elated.

 

[Nyota]

I was raised Charismatic, but after reading the book Charismatic Chaos, my views have changed. I think God gave the gift to spread Christianity. Since then, it has not been in practice.

 

[Holly3278]

As a charismatic Catholic, I have this gift.

 

[mangy_dog]

I am glad that you believe in the gift Mangy. I sing in the Spirit in private and it has helped me so many times and in so many ways that I can’t possibly number them all. As far as praying in tongues in a group, there is some confusion about whether or not St. Paul was forbidding praying in the Spirit or speaking in the Spirit. The former needs no interpretation because it is prayer directed solely to God. The latter does need an interpretation and so we believe that this is what St. Paul was speaking of.

As cattholics, we definately need the church when trying to understand what the bible is saying becuase it is not always perfectly clear. We have not only a scriptural mentality, but also we accept the guidance of our magisterium. As it stands, the charismatic renewal has always prayed in tongues aloud, for this kind of prayer needs no interpretation. We are not a scripture alone Church! Well we do of course accept all of scripture, but we must be obediant to our leadership in the understanding of it.

“No need to fear the Charismatic Renewal”, says Fr. Cantallamessa, the papal preacher to the vatican. here is a link to what he has said:

zenit.org/article-8271?l=english

I could not agree more and could not have said it better.