Poll: Gift of praying in tongues

[MtnDwellar]

Oh I wish an apologist would come and hit up this thread.

A buddhist monk speaking tongues?

Buddhism… buddhism…its not meditation thats the problem…we as catholics meditate on the rosary, and the mysteries…meditation is a very good thing to do…

But buddhists meditate to ‘empty’ themselves…clear their minds…they think inner peace comes from cleanin’ out everything- quite the opposite of catholics/christians who think that is achieved by FILLING yourself up, and filling yourself up with Christ and His love.

As catholics we are warned NOT to practice these kind of meditations, buddhist…yoga…etc, because by EMPTYING yourself of your own thoughts, or of Christ, you OPEN yourself up- and become vulnerable to other spirits.

Quite frankly put a Buddhist who doesnt believe in Christ is OBVIOUSLY not speaking His tongues, so who’s words IS he speaking???
.

As I said in my earlier post, I have not spent much time thinking about tongues. You guys got me thinking!

Buddhists don’t speak in tongues. They don’t believe in the Trinity. According to the article, they are prone to mumbling while in a trance.

While Charlotte is correct in saying that Buddhists meditate to achieve inner peace, there is also another reason for their meditation. They meditate for information or enlightenment. They believe that the energy of the Spirit is communicating to them through their subconscious. While the subconscious is always active, it takes interaction with our conscious mind to understand and file the information which is presented. During a trance, they are trying achieve a mind state where the conscious mind is operating in the background and the subconscious is in the foreground - unlike sleep where the conscious mind is largely inactive. I believe that the reason that we don’t try to practice this type of meditation is that we are open to all kinds of spirits. By opening oneself we are asking for trouble. BTW - the Buddhists also know that they could contact negative energies. They will try to protect themselves through other methods prior to the trance.

What came to my mind is that for the Buddhists, the mumbling may be a result of their conscious mind being only at “half throttle”. Without full conscious control of their “tongue” it just spews out nonsense. I suppose that is different than what the people who have received the gift experience. When someone is experiencing the gift of tongues, do they feel that they are in full conscious control of their actions?

 

[plan19]

This is NOT about judgement here people…I’m not saying that NO ONE can speak in tongues…but i think the ‘speaking in tongues’ in the way I’ve seen and heard of it, just random babbling and spitting and what not- is not it.

Hello Charlotte. Nice to see another join the thread.

Funny thing, babble… fringe practice in general. Snake handling Baptists, alligator-wrangling. It’s all plain silliness. Thing is… silly is fun, and silly is easy to talk about… and sometimes silly can be the only thing that keeps you from going overboard.

I’m still in RCIA… and people give me grief for going to church… and they give me grief for choosing Catholicism… and they ask why… because people have noticed that the experience has changed me in a deep and profound way. My priest has even noticed this and taken great joy in it. But how do I explain this to them? “Oh, well, see… God opened my heart and shook me to my core and day by day is helping me to become better than I was before?” They won’t understand that… there are even Catholics who can’t understand it… so I just keep my mouth shut… and I smile. How do I know God exists? “Oh, I just do”, is my reply.

So I endure the eye-rolling, the smiles… the jokes, the completely inappropriate remarks… because they don’t know, and for this reason I pity them in a regard… I can’t help but to hear Christ in my head at times… “Father forgive them… for they know not what they do.”

I know for some people… this sort of thing can try your faith. We’re human. Things get to us.

So what do you do? How do you restore that lost faith? One option is that you find some obscure practice that provides “evidence” that these things we believe in are real. You don’t do it consciously… but the waning faith opens the door. You hear about these people… they seem so happy, and so devout. They’re always flapping their jaws about how happy and devout they are… so they must be. Maybe you meet one, maybe you read about them… but the fact is that one day you find yourself in a charismatic church.

So you see this silliness… and you hear all of the quotes. … mysteries in the spirit… edifies… the lord… You’re no theology expert… you hear the justifications… sure 'nuff they’re right there in the bible. You now have the excuse you need to join the community.

Now you don’t need faith so much… cause look… HERE’S PROOF that God exists. He’s talking right now to that real excited dude three pews over. WOW. Oh, look. You’re doing it now too.

Your cup runneth over. Fact is…fringe practices exist because there is a need for them. They exist because we have failed to help their practitioners. They were unserved, or under-served… so they went where they needed to. The fact that they invaded the Catholic Church… that’s our fault.

Now we’re in a tough spot. Tongues, to the charismatic, is like a lynch pin, or a keystone. You can’t yank it out or the whole thing falls.

Charismatics will never go away. And it’s all our fault.

Isnt ‘tongues’ another way of saying language? Now if someone I knew, only spoke english, prayed to God, and then busted out in some ancient Hebrew- then I’d definitely trip out and say he was ‘speaking in tongues’.

Yeah, funny thing that.

Thing is… we actually have a historical record available to help clarify matters. It should be easy to provide evidence of a saint who spoke in tongues… and actually, it is. There are a good handful.

Thing is… the historical record for all of them states that they spoke in languages they didn’t know before… or spoke language A to person of nationality B in such a way as person B understood every word the saint said… despite not speaking the language.

I’d love to know if there have been any Church approved instances of people speaking in tongues and what that sounded like, or what they said.

Check out that link I provided to Little Flowers. Here it is again.
books.google.com/books?id=6FVCAAAAIAAJ&ots=n1wC7D4sMu&dq=little%20flowers&pg=PR5#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

[Charlotte408]

See!! Thank you plan19!!! and I’ll check out that link

 

[Hiskid1973]

"Oh, well, see… God opened my heart and shook me to my core and day by day is helping me to become better than I was before?

Yep…This is the same way with me and my druggy coworker in 1973…It was a pretty eye opening conversion experience in1973…It just keeps getting better day by day…peace to you…

 

[MtnDwellar]

Plan19 - Great post. Thanks.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

The catholic charismatic renewal is not just approved but actually endorsed by the church, you can read about it here:

catholiccharismatic.us/ccc/articles/nonattributed/US_Bishops_001.html

nsc-chariscenter.org/aboutccr.htm

I did want to see where people stand on this, that was the main purpose of this thread. However, there seems to be alot of accusations flying here and honestly, I can’t really fathom how people have yet to realize the the Catholic Church approves what we do in the Charismatic Renewal!

Here is my challenge to the posters here:

Considering that in the Charismatic renewal all the prayer groups have people who pray in tongues in this way, there can only be a few answers to why the Church endorses it:

1. The church doesn’t know that we pray in this way.
2. The Church knows but isn’t sure if it is good or not.
3. The Church knows and supports us.

There may be some other possible “answers” but to be blunt, I am pretty sure they know. Secondly, I know what the Church is like: They do not endorse things when they are still up in the air. Consider any apparation. They do not endorse until they have made up their minds. Again, please re-cosider and think about how the Catholic Church not only apporves our Renewal, but actually endorses it.

This is a challenge to your humility: When you are faced with something that is hard to accept, will you still follow the guidance of our Church? That is real humility to give up your own thoughts like that and I commend anyone who follows the church in such a way.

Please do not fight against what the church endorses, you may just find yourself fighting against God.

 

[sauce]

A credible reply from a credible gentleman.

I was at a screening of a talk once by Ralph Martin who said that when the Charismatic leaders went to the Vatican to visit with John Paul II that they prayed with him and he prayed in tongues right along with them.

Flame of Christ, will you venture forward with more youtube teachings?
It’s a good venue for you.

The gift of the Holy Spirit is really the issue at hand.
Nothing compares to how He washes over people who are hungry.

Peace

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

A credible reply from a credible gentleman.

I was at a screening of a talk once by Ralph Martin who said that when the Charismatic leaders went to the Vatican to visit with John Paul II that they prayed with him and he prayed in tongues right along with them.

Flame of Christ, will you venture forward with more youtube teachings?
It’s a good venue for you.

The gift of the Holy Spirit is really the issue at hand.
Nothing compares to how He washes over people who are hungry.

Peace

Thank you so much for your post. I do know that charismatic leaders have prayed with the Pope but this is first time I heard it mentioned that he might have had the gift of tongues himself. It wouldn’t surprise me as Pope John II was a huge supporter of the Charismatic Renewal. I need to do some research on this!

Thank you also for your supprot of the youtube ministry. I am planning to make a new video soon. God bless you my dear brother in Christ, God bless you for your kind heart.

Maybe the Holy Spirit is inspiring you to tell this to me here.

 

[Monica4316]

I think that… in cases like the “Toronto Blessing”, it might be mild demonic possession. But if someone is praying the Rosary or something and then begins praying in tongues, (and not in a creepy possessed looking way, but you know how most people actually do it…) - that might well be from the Holy Spirit… I mean, we have to look at the fruits. If it’s peaceful and edifying and not upsetting or distracting to others, that’s good… One time I went to a ‘healing Mass’ and it was very peaceful, quiet, I still remember the lady in a pew behind me praying in a very beautiful ‘prayer language’ - it was like a song, in a way. That being said, I’ve also seen videos if (mainly Protestant) charismatic services that disturbed me. So I think it depends… there are real cases of it, and then there are imitations (either demonic or psychological.) From what I’ve seen of the Catholic charismatic renewal, it seems to have less ‘misuses’ than some Pentecostal churches.

if the Church accepts it, that is cool

does anyone have any info (as in quotes) regarding what the Church says?

God bless

 

[Charlotte408]

No challenge to my humility at all. I never said I didnt believe anyone could speak in tongues- I just said that ‘how could you possibly know that it is Christs spirit and message you are recieving without some sort of translation’.

I have no doubt that there have BEEN people that speak in tongues.
I have no doubt that there may BE people who speak in tongues.
I have no doubt the CC encourages the Catholic Charismatic Renewal MOVEMENT.
But I do have concerns with ‘speaking in tongues’ in general, and do not think that any and everybody who does so, is actually speaking from Christ. (there could be various reasons someone might pretend to)
And I DO believe, that it is something people should take VERY serious, as they ARE other spirits, who are very capable of interceding and ‘come as an Angel of Light’.

In fact- knowing the CC endorses it is one thing, but I hope they never PROMOTE it, because then everyone who wants to speak tongues (even though they might not actually be called to) might try, and IF this does happen (satan or some evil spirit intervening) and the CC accepts the babbling…well isnt that the sign of the end of times?

Satan enters the church…

Again, I’m jus’ sayin’…tread lightly …

 

[Charlotte408]

we have to look at the fruits. If it’s **peaceful and edifying **and not upsetting or distracting to others, that’s good… One time I went to a ‘healing Mass’ and it was very peaceful, quiet, I still remember the lady in a pew behind me praying in a very beautiful ‘prayer language’ - it was like a song, in a way. That being said, I’ve also seen videos if (mainly Protestant) charismatic services that disturbed me. So I think it depends… **there are real cases of it, and then there are imitations (either demonic or psychological.) **

Ditto…the fruits thing…

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

I think that… in cases like the “Toronto Blessing”, it might be mild demonic possession. But if someone is quietly praying the Rosary or something and then begins praying in tongues, (and not in a creepy possessed looking way, but you know how most people actually do it…) - that might well be from the Holy Spirit… I mean, we have to look at the fruits. If it’s peaceful and edifying and not upsetting or distracting to others, that’s good… One time I went to a ‘healing Mass’ and it was very peaceful, quiet, I still remember the lady in a pew behind me praying in a very beautiful ‘prayer language’ - it was like a song, in a way. That being said, I’ve also seen videos if (mainly Protestant) charismatic services that disturbed me. So I think it depends… there are real cases of it, and then there are imitations (either demonic or psychological.)

if the Church accepts it, that is cool

does anyone have any info (as in quotes) regarding what the Church says?

God bless

I know that the Charismatic Renewal in the Catholic Church is more peaceful than it is in other places. If you were to ask me why I think that, I would point to the fact that our union with the Lord is deeper being that we receive Him not just spiritually, as in a prayer of calling upon the Name of the Lord, but also physically, in the bread and wine which has become the eucharist, the Body and Blood of Christ. With that said, I can see how there may be more of a human spirit intermixed with protestants, I may be wrong to generalize, as there are many protestants who are more united to Christ than some catholics, but I do know the effect of the eucharist, it makes us more filled with gracefulness, love, peace and joy.

Demonic possesion though… I doubt that. As an example I would cite that the chief exorcist from Rome, Fr. Gabriel Amorth, has very much endosed the CCR. He even has charismatics pray with him during the exocisms he does over those who are possesed. This remeinds me of the words of our Lord

“How can satan cast out Satan? If he did that, it would be the end of him.” Read Luke 11:18-21

So I think that the fact that Father asks charismatics to help him pray over the possesed tells us something about the true nature of this gift.

here is a link to some info about this exorcist (this is worth the read):

catholiccharismatic.us/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=7626#7626

 

[MtnDwellar]

The catholic charismatic renewal is not just approved but actually endorsed by the church, you can read about it here:

catholiccharismatic.us/ccc/articles/nonattributed/US_Bishops_001.html

In Tertio Millennio Adveniente, Pope John Paul II states that this “new springtime of Christian life will be revealed by the Great Jubilee if Christians are docile to the action of the Holy Spirit” (#18), and he exhorts his “venerable brothers in the episcopate and the ecclesial communities entrusted” to us to open our “hearts to the promptings of the Spirit” (#59).

nsc-chariscenter.org/aboutccr.htm

In 1975 Pope Paul VI greeted ten thousand Catholic charismatics from all over the world at the ninth international conference of the Renewal, “The Church and the world need more than ever that ‘the miracle of Pentecost should continue in history’ . . . How could this ‘spiritual renewal’ not be ‘good fortune’ for the Church and the world?”

Having read the popes’ comments, to me, they don’t read as a resounding endorsement. They also are not condemnation. It seems to me that the popes’ thinking is similar to my thinking expressed in an earlier post.

I have always felt that it was not my job to interpret someone’s gift. If one thinks that he has received a gift and that it brings him closer to the Spirit, I am happy for them.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

In fact- knowing the CC endorses it is one thing, but I hope they never PROMOTE it, because then everyone who wants to speak tongues (even though they might not actually be called to) might try, and IF this does happen (satan or some evil spirit intervening) and the CC accepts the babbling…well isnt that the sign of the end of times?

Satan enters the church…

Again, I’m jus’ sayin’…tread lightly …

Hi Charlotte408, God bless you with peace.

I would offer to you that I have read much of what our Church says about the CCR, and I have to tell you that the church does indeed promote it. The Holy Father and Bishops have encouraged us to spread this renewal in the church. I would like to give you some quotes of that if you will be patient. In some sense, my own promotion of the CCR,: asking people to join it and open themselves to these graces, is a mission given to me by the Catholic church. I pray that you might realize that and not call us satan, becuase you may just be commiting the very sin that is called “unforgivable”: If we are sent by the Church and truly speaking through the Holy Spirit, and you call us beelzebul… It is a terrible sin. please read Mt 12: 30-32 and please consider this a warning from Jesus about calling us Satan trying to enter the church.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

Having read the popes’ comments, to me, they don’t read as a resounding endorsement. They also are not condemnation. It seems to me that the popes’ thinking is similar to my thinking expressed in an earlier post.

check out this link from of some statements by the popes.

religion-cults.com/spirit/charismatic.htm#Popes_Statements:

Notice how

1… Pope Paul VI says “How then could this ‘spiritual renewal’ not be a ‘chance’ for the Church and for the world? And how, in this case, could one not take all the means to insure that it remains so?”

The underlined is a call to not let the CCR stop but instead spread this renewal to the church.

1. Pope John Paul II says "I am convinced that this movement is a sign of his action. "
2. Pope Benedict XVI says "a new experience of the Holy Spirit suddenly burst forth. And, since then, that experience has assumed a breadth of a worldwide Renewal movement. "

We truly are promoted as a gift to the whole church, a true experience of the Holy Spirit (not some other spirit). The church is telling me that it supports us.

 

[sauce]

No challenge to my humility at all. I never said I didnt believe anyone could speak in tongues- I just said that ‘how could you possibly know that it is Christs spirit and message you are recieving without some sort of translation’.

I have no doubt that there have BEEN people that speak in tongues.
I have no doubt that there may BE people who speak in tongues.
I have no doubt the CC encourages the Catholic Charismatic Renewal MOVEMENT.
But I do have concerns with ‘speaking in tongues’ in general, and do not think that any and everybody who does so, is actually speaking from Christ. (there could be various reasons someone might pretend to)
And I DO believe, that it is something people should take VERY serious, as they ARE other spirits, who are very capable of interceding and ‘come as an Angel of Light’.

In fact- knowing the CC endorses it is one thing, but I hope they never PROMOTE it, because then everyone who wants to speak tongues (even though they might not actually be called to) might try, and IF this does happen (satan or some evil spirit intervening) and the CC accepts the babbling…well isnt that the sign of the end of times?

Satan enters the church…

Again, I’m jus’ sayin’…tread lightly …

Nothing is perfect, and the Charismatic Renewal has not been without blemish and scandal. And some people in it can be a little pushy or whatever, but I have found that if our focus is on the Holy Spirit there is so much fruit we can bear. And grow in the Spirit and experience abundant life.

I find Ben 16 to be very Charismatic with a gift of “luminous clarity.” He’s quite a writer and has insight into Jesus that really burns the inner flame. After all, isn’t Jesus and our relationship with him what counts more than anything else?

I get that you love the Church. Wonderful.
A priest friend and I figured it would be well worth it to pray for the gift of “luminous clarity” to come into our lives. I recommend that to everyone. God bless.

 

[Monica4316]

NOTE: most of what I write in this thread is my own speculation soo…take it with a grain of salt! I don’t speak in tongues and don’t know enough about it for sure.

No challenge to my humility at all. I never said I didnt believe anyone could speak in tongues- I just said that ‘how could you possibly know that it is Christs spirit and message you are recieving without some sort of translation’.

I have no doubt that there have BEEN people that speak in tongues.
I have no doubt that there may BE people who speak in tongues.
I have no doubt the CC encourages the Catholic Charismatic Renewal MOVEMENT.
But I do have concerns with ‘speaking in tongues’ in general, and do not think that any and everybody who does so, is actually speaking from Christ. (there could be various reasons someone might pretend to)
And I DO believe, that it is something people should take VERY serious, as they ARE other spirits, who are very capable of interceding and ‘come as an Angel of Light’.

I see what you mean… I think it’s always good to be careful about spiritual experiences in general. I think it’s important to judge everything by its fruits… and that if there is bad fruit, its important to reject the experience no matter how beautiful it seemed at the time. I’ve dealt with some deception in the past so I dont think we should take things like this lightly.

But if they are from God, that is awesome

I think sometimes it’s from God and sometimes it’s not… so each case should be discerned.

In fact- knowing the CC endorses it is one thing, but I hope they never PROMOTE it, because then everyone who wants to speak tongues (even though they might not actually be called to) might try, and IF this does happen (satan or some evil spirit intervening) and the CC accepts the babbling…well isnt that the sign of the end of times?

Satan enters the church…

Again, I’m jus’ sayin’…tread lightly …

I think we should never seek any spiritual experiences or consolations for their own sake… sometimes people want to speak in tongues just because it seems interesting to them or they want to FEEL close to God…and then, the devil might intervene - if he has the opportunity. I used to really want to speak in tongues, when i first heard about it. Then, I sort of went the other direction and became skeptical of it. Now, I sort of want to leave it up to God and be open to Him, without any preference. I dont think it would be right for me to try and *make *myself speak in tongues. If God wants it, He will do it, eventually. To be honest, I think it would be difficult having a gift that’s so ‘open’, for everyone to see, I think if I could pray in tongues I’d just tell my priest and no one else unless it’s God’s will for someone to know. (like if they would be helped by this). I think I’d even feel kind of scared of telling people. I know the Saints, whenever they had the stigmata or visions or any other such graces - they tried really hard to hide them so as not to be tempted to pride… I dont know if this applies to speaking in tongues or not, or if it’s MEANT to be a gift that’s visible to others… I also don’t know if it’s a type of a martyrdom to have such a gift, one that so many can see

I also don’t know if this is given to people who have reached a certain level of holiness, or if ti’s a means to greater holiness, or both

 

[Monica4316]

I know that the Charismatic Renewal in the Catholic Church is more peaceful than it is in other places. If you were to ask me why I think that, I would point to the fact that our union with the Lord is deeper being that we receive Him not just spiritually, as in a prayer of calling upon the Name of the Lord, but also physically, in the bread and wine which has become the eucharist, the Body and Blood of Christ.

I tend to agree I think that the Eucharist takes away many errors in our relationship with God. Whenever we pray in His presence, it’s so much harder to be deceived by the enemy. (though still possible I suppose… I honestly don’t know)

With that said, I can see how there may be more of a human spirit intermixed with protestants, I may be wrong to generalize, as there are many protestants who are more united to Christ than some catholics, but I do know the effect of the eucharist, it makes us more filled with gracefulness, love, peace and joy.

maybe it’s that in some Protestant churches, speaking in tongues and other ‘visible’ gifts are highly encouraged, and people sometimes even try and fake them, just to feel liek they’re part of the church, or to feel a spiritual high… I know it sounds mean to say that people are just seeking spiritual highs, but I’m speaking from experience here because this is how I was taught as a Protestant. One time I felt nothing during praise and worship, except dryness… and I asked my friends if this is normal, and they told me it means something’s wrong. Later, when I learned the Church teaching, I was so relieved that it’s okay (even good) to worship God in spiritual dryness/desolation!

However, not all Protestants are like this. I have some charismatic Protestant friends who totally agree on this, and use their gifts for God’s Kingdom and not in a selfish way. maybe it depends on the church or what people are taught. Some are lead astray by false teachings which is really sad. (like…if you dont’ speak in tongues you won’t go to heaven, etc.)

Demonic possesion though… I doubt that. As an example I would cite that the chief exorcist from Rome, Fr. Gabriel Amorth, has very much endosed the CCR. He even has charismatics pray with him during the exocisms he does over those who are possesed. This remeinds me of the words of our Lord

“How can satan cast out Satan? If he did that, it would be the end of him.” Read Luke 11:18-21

So I think that the fact that Father asks charismatics to help him pray over the possesed tells us something about the true nature of this gift.

hmm I didn’t know that! I really respect Fr Amorth.

I don’t think this means there is never any demonic possession that looks like speaking in tongues, because I recall reading about exorcisms and how sometimes possessed people speak in unknown languages. (like Latin) But maybe this is more rare and an extreme case… probably Fr Amorth knew the charismatics that he asked to pray with him? I dunno

that’s cool though, thanks for the info.

here is a link to some info about this exorcist (this is worth the read):

catholiccharismatic.us/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=7626#7626

thanks!

 

[Monica4316]

1. Fr. Amorth also notes that during prayers of liberation from demonic spirits “praying in tongues is allowed, but always in an orderly manner, avoiding all appearance of excitement” (p. 97).

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

maybe it’s that in some Protestant churches, speaking in tongues and other ‘visible’ gifts are highly encouraged, and people sometimes even try and fake them, just to feel liek they’re part of the church, or to feel a spiritual high… I know it sounds mean to say that people are just seeking spiritual highs, but I’m speaking from experience here because this is how I was taught as a Protestant. One time I felt nothing during praise and worship, except dryness… and I asked my friends if this is normal, and they told me it means something’s wrong. Later, when I learned the Church teaching, I was so relieved that it’s okay (even good) to worship God in spiritual dryness/desolation!

Of course I agree that we should not seek a gift for some spiritual high, that would be to put the gifts above the Giver, like making God some kind of Santa Claus, whom we just go to when we need something. No, God wants our personal relationship with Him more than anything else. But St. Paul does say to seek the spiritual gifts:

“You must want love more than anything else, but still hope for the spiritual gifts as well, especially prophecy.” 1 Cor 14:1

I find that reconciling how St. Paul say to desire the gifts only makes sense when the gifts are put into their proper perspective: namely to build oneself up in Christ and to build up the Church.

However, not all Protestants are like this. I have some charismatic Protestant friends who totally agree on this, and use their gifts for God’s Kingdom and not in a selfish way. maybe it depends on the church or what people are taught. Some are lead astray by false teachings which is really sad. (like…if you dont’ speak in tongues you won’t go to heaven, etc.)

of course you can go to heaven without ever having spoken in tongues no issue there!

I don’t think this means there is never any demonic possession that looks like speaking in tongues, because I recall reading about exorcisms and how sometimes possessed people speak in unknown languages. (like Latin) But maybe this is more rare and an extreme case… probably Fr Amorth knew the charismatics that he asked to pray with him? I dunno

What I have learned about demonic cases of tongues is that they are very very noticably terrible sounding. I am talking angry and violent. This is not the same thing as loud / volume. I am talking about a very noticable violence in their sound. I have never heard them before though, I have just heard about them. Not at all what Catholic Cahrismatics pray like and I have never even heard it from protestants.

peace sister!