Poll, is it worth wile debating with Athiests?

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Linusthe2nd

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My answer is no for several reasons.
  1. At the very best it is an effort with very minute potential for a positive result.
  2. Certainly for those who are young and able to get about, they should be engaged in an apostolate for which there is a real need for help, in the parish, at the diocesean level, or just in wider community projects.
  3. If you are spending an hour a day debating them that is more than enough. Much better to spend the time praying, making that daily Mass, etc.
  4. If you are reasonably intelligent and a shut in you can spend some time each day debating them if so inclined. Just keep in mind your return will be nearly zero.
  5. It is my opinion that most of these folks are just trying to " stir the pot, " they aren’t interested in anyting really but trying to sew the seeds of doubt. And we really don’t need encouragement in that regard. Even on a normal day it is sometimes hard to see the Lord’s hand at work. We really don’t need to sep in and allow someone to throw cold water on everything we hold dear.
  6. For myself, I will not answer their querys unless I detect a true openess in the search for truth. So I will limit myself to refering them to the Summas, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and perhaps some reliable author who covers the subject.
Those are my thoughts.
 
Debating? Nope. Never been good at debate, and it’s not up to me to prove points with wordplay that have held true for thousands of years just fine on their own.

Discussion, on the other hand? Sure. I’m more than willing to share my stories and views, point them to other discussions and views about the matter, and let them make their own conclusions, as well as listen to what they have to say and appreciate them telling me, and thinking it over.

My own strength is in the doing, not the talking.
 
No. letting them see your charity is the best option; there are also better things to do since most of them are set in their ways. If someone isn’t sure or confused about God then you should talk to them.
 
For the most part, I agree wholeheartedly with your points, and agree that - in most cases - the correct answer is a resounding “no.”

However… I must also make the point that, especially in light of your first argument against it, the fact that there is almost zero return, that it rarely works out, I contend that that is reason to take the time to openly discuss and defend the faith. Unless the chances of success are literally zero, we risk the tacit implication that their soul isn’t worth the time or effort on the chance that we are unsuccessful. However, isn’t the worth of a single soul so great that the Good Shepherd left the 99 just to find the 1? And if by taking the time to charitably “debate” an atheist we sow the seeds of doubt that grow into a wealth of faith, even years later, isn’t it worth even that smallest chance of success?

I answered yes, for this reason. And in my experiences, I have been blessed to have experiences in which I was able to, at the very least, make their views of our faith somewhat less negative, which was a victory in my mind! My very own uncle returned to the faith after years’ absence because he tried to convince me of the folly of following religion one night after a funeral. I was only 14, but by the grace of God I was able to offer him another perspective that, slowly, changed his heart and his mind. If I am never successful with another soul so long as I live, I still think it worth the attempt. Never doubt the ways that God can use you for His will, if the timing is right!

👍
 
I voted yes and no because it depends on the type of arguments the atheist is posing, which determines what his intention of having the debate is.

If he is debating using arguments that are merely trying to disprove everything and he seems heated or to be full of himself, then his motives are bad and he is just trying to prove himself “smarter” or “better” than you. In this case, it is not worth your while debating him because no evidence or argument you give will ever be good enough.

If he is debating using arguments composed mostly with questions and he is calm and is actively thinking, then his motives are good because he is trying to understand your position, and means you should try to under stand him as well. He isn’t trying to prove himself “smarter” or “better”. He is trying to become a better person himself by increasing his knowledge and understanding. In this case it is worth while because he is open-minded to the your view, and even if he doesn’t convert on the spot, or even if he doesn’t end up ever converting, he’ll at least have gained some insight and knowledge and will probably have left the debate full of more thoughts and questions and a further understanding of Christianity. He may not convert, but he might make more of an effort to better himself and try harder to be a kinder and more moral person.
 
Linusthe2nd said:
  1. It is my opinion that most of these folks are just trying to " stir the pot, " they aren’t interested in anyting really but trying to sew the seeds of doubt. And we really don’t need encouragement in that regard. Even on a normal day it is sometimes hard to see the Lord’s hand at work. We really don’t need to sep in and allow someone to throw cold water on everything we hold dear.
  2. For myself, I will not answer their querys unless I detect a true openess in the search for truth. So I will limit myself to refering them to the Summas, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and perhaps some reliable author who covers the subject.
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These are the two reasons I decided some time ago it’s not worth it. The only time I will bother giving them a serious explanation is if they’re genuinely curious/open and not just trolling, but this is extremely rare for atheists.
 
Debating, no. But you’d be amazed how far you can get with just a little discussion. The question “why” does ASTOUNDING things.
 
I’d say you can claim victory after even one saved soul. All you are doing is planting the seed and pulling down their logic (assuming you can counter their position). Leave it to God to allow them to see past their pride/fear/confusion/uncertainty. Anyways, if you aren’t firmly grounded in your faith, it may actually hurt you, but if you are confident in your faith, you are at least planting a seed.
 
As I was not brought up in a christian family, I needed someone to tell me about Jesus. I know there is a difference between telling about and debating, but the more you debate, the more you learn, as well as the person you are debating with. As said my family are not christians, but I have got stronger in my faith by debating with my family about my faith. Also my Grandad was an Athiest, until he was dying, but he watched how christians treated him and his wife(who was a christian and was the one who told me about Christ) and he became a christian on his death bed. If you want to debate your beliefs you have to show them as well. Actions speak louder than words.
 
Son_of_Jonah said:
For the most part, I agree wholeheartedly with your points, and agree that - in most cases - the correct answer is a resounding “no.”

However… I must also make the point that, especially in light of your first argument against it, the fact that there is almost zero return, that it rarely works out, I contend that that is reason to take the time to openly discuss and defend the faith. Unless the chances of success are literally zero, we risk the tacit implication that their soul isn’t worth the time or effort on the chance that we are unsuccessful. However, isn’t the worth of a single soul so great that the Good Shepherd left the 99 just to find the 1? And if by taking the time to charitably “debate” an atheist we sow the seeds of doubt that grow into a wealth of faith, even years later, isn’t it worth even that smallest chance of success?

I answered yes, for this reason. And in my experiences, I have been blessed to have experiences in which I was able to, at the very least, make their views of our faith somewhat less negative, which was a victory in my mind! My very own uncle returned to the faith after years’ absence because he tried to convince me of the folly of following religion one night after a funeral. I was only 14, but by the grace of God I was able to offer him another perspective that, slowly, changed his heart and his mind. If I am never successful with another soul so long as I live, I still think it worth the attempt. Never doubt the ways that God can use you for His will, if the timing is right!

👍
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Of course, I would respectfully discuss or debate my faith experience with anyone. Failing to do so would be intellectually small and cowardly.

It’s not always about you or me converting a soul. That work should be reserved for the Holy Spirit. All faith traditions (even atheism) have elements of truth. If we are sincerely seeking truth, maybe God sent the atheist to you or me for our edification and spiritual growth and not the other way around.

One last thought, Thomas Merton, the great Trappist mystic of the 20th century was at best a secularist and at worst an atheist. He read a book on Catholic Philosophy and his eyes were opened. Today he is a saint.

Our God is amazing as he writes straight with crooked lines.
 
I’ve thought about it, you are all correct, to an extent. As a one time atheist/non-theist I wondered how I might have turned out if I had allowed myself to intermingle almost exclusively with other atheists. It seems to me that I would not have found Truth. Instead, I think I would have descended into a bottomless place of apathy - where we used to think the devil resided. I would have descended into an over-estimation of myself, but that only would have brought me to a point (which it thankfully did) where I would still be puzzled by my existence.

We seek - rather, we long - for re-visitations to those long since gone activities and scenes that, after a point, have rather completely lost their glitter. We long for the will and desire to sustain our ancient fantasies and existences. At some point, in my atheist past, I recognized that “atheism” was not going to take me to any higher ground. That’s when I began to think about its antithesis. And, over time, slowly brought myself, with God’s grace, back from that scary place.

Atheism left me nothing to look forward to. You know that feeling you get when you are on your way home from a long, hard day at work, and you are looking forward to the waiting arms of your loved ones? (Strangely, even that felt like less than it should have when I was an atheist.) By its very nature, Atheism is nothing to look forward to. The Buddhist can look forward to another life - where he can try again to get it right. The Catholic can look forward to God - even if he spends a short duration out of his sight.

But, to look forward to nothing. To look forward to simply being re-cycled into mud and dirt, and unicellular detritus scourers. That was part of my motivator. The other part was the ancient rumor that Saint Thomas Aquinas actually “proved” God’s existence, with five beautiful demonstrations from life. Thus, I set about finding out for myself - even though I was a biology perfesser.

I think we have to be open to the debate. Why. Because we’re all brothers and sisters, i.e, children of God. We never know what word, or words, might motivate our died-in-the-wool atheist debate opponent brothers and sisters. Conversions have taken place. The Holy Spirit is as much here as anywhere else in this universe, and maybe concentrated here even more. Do not be discouraged by them, and don’t give up on them. What would Jesus do?

God bless,
jd
 
I find it very worrying that so many have answered no.

Intellectual debate and discussion about any topic, whether it be existence of God or the advantages of stem cell therapy for lymphoma (as a random example), should be encouraged.

A “positive” result? Any intellectual debate is a positive result in itself. The use of the mind, of reason, of evidence, of argumentation… The flinging around of ideas is enriching and, in my mind, beautiful, whether you’re debating against an Atheist or not.

Much better to spend time praying? God gave us our minds, we should use them, yes prayer is extremely important, but remember what Aquinas said about study and intellectual discourse - he founded Scholasticism. He identified the use of intellect, whether in prayer, study or debate, to be very holy. Indeed he defined meditation as the reflection of study and debate.

So what if they are “sowing seeds of doubt” or “stirring the pot”, this is an oppotunity for you to challenge and question yourself, rather than being a blind believer. Indeed it should strengthen your faith, allow you to find answers to these “pot-stirring” questions, or to challenge your own faith.

Keep in mind that I’m supporting intellectual debate, not mud-slinging and hot-headed arrogance. A good example of intellectual debate would be when John Lennox debated Peter Singer. Both men made fantastic points for their own cases, backed up with evidence and were sporting and gentlemanly towards eachother. This is beneficial for the mind, it is learning, allows us to question things for ourselves. (And allows me personally to affirm my belief further, and give myself arguments against that of the Atheist)

Just because somebody is Atheist doesn’t mean they are somehow evil or misguided or subhuman. What an astounding stance many on this forum have. Jesus showed compassion for all, God loves all, indeed Jesus showed more venom towards the arrogant preachers in the temples who thought they knew everything. Just because somebody doesn’t believe in God doesn’t mean they are inherently a bad person… It just means they are wrong about one thing, and they will be proved wrong in the afterlife.
 
As my 94-year-old mother says, atheists are thinking about God all the time. Many of them are itching to believe. Gently making your case with them will eventually win some over.

But I know it’s not easy to endure the slights, rejections, and mockery.
 
Yes, absolutely.
Well, some of them. If they’re to type unwilling to listen and will only insult you, then probably not. But there are some that are willing to ask honest questions which I think deserve honest answers. Last year I debated with one of my atheist friends and I learned a lot about my own faith, and became closer to God in the process. I think he learned some things too. At one point, he admitted that I possibly made a case for deism, which is a step closer to theism, but I don’t know if he changed his mind. Later I showed him a more comprehensive argument using the same reasoning, to which he never responded (perhaps because it was so long, but I’d like to believe he simply had no way to deny it). I think it is important to properly represent the faith and dispel any ignorance or misconceptions they may have of it.
 
DA1973 said:
As my 94-year-old mother says, atheists are thinking about God all the time. Many of them are itching to believe. Gently making your case with them will eventually win some over.

But I know it’s not easy to endure the slights, rejections, and mockery.
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I don’t know any atheists that are “itching to believe.” Debating an atheist isn’t a great idea because even if you win you haven’t convinced them of anything, nor have you really proven anything. Since neither side can prove they are right it is a silly game to play.
 
interestedman said:
I don’t know any atheists that are “itching to believe.” Debating an atheist isn’t a great idea because even if you win you haven’t convinced them of anything, nor have you really proven anything. Since neither side can prove they are right it is a silly game to play.
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Where is it written that a debate is won or lost based on the ability of one debater to get the other to change their point of view.

A good debate should stretch our imagination and intellect to challenge our assumptions and dearly held beliefs. A good debater will use a well organized and reasoned argument to demonstrate the merits of his or her position.

Sometimes the argument is so compelling as to have the affect of converting a mind and soul one way or the other, but I really believe that should not be the ultimate measure of success.
 
I say “yes”, for a number of reasons:
  • it gives me an opportunity to think about (and learn more about!) a variety of topics in all things Catholic
  • it gives me an opportunity to strengthen the clarity of the explanations I’m able to provide regarding the faith
  • it gives my counterpart(s) in the discussion an opportunity to experience the teachings of the Catholic Church. (Even if they’ve heard them before, perhaps my way of explaining these things will ‘click’ with them.)
  • it gives them the opportunity to see that Christians aren’t mindless drones, repeating doctrine by rote – we have a particular rationality upon which we base our beliefs
  • it gives anyone who might happen across our discussion here, maybe days or weeks or months or years later, the opportunity to see answers to questions they themselves have asked. (You realize that these forums come up in response to Google searches, right?)
  • it provides the Holy Spirit the opportunity to work on the hearts and minds of those who read these forums, and hopefully, bring them to the truth.
I would think that these reasons are more than enough to judge our efforts here ‘worthwhile’… 😉
 
Whether or not it is “worth it” will depend on your end goal and intentions.
 
Absolutely.

The point of discussing/debating religion with them is not their immediate conversion, but showing them that their worldview has serious holes in it and that Christianity has something to say on the topic. The Holy Spirit converts but our job is to sow the seed in any way we can. We may never see results, but that does not mean there are none.

For example, my brother is a pretty stubborn agnostic but he likes to discuss Christianity. His only knowledge comes from the secular media and as a result he is ignorant and biased. What I do is correct his mistaken assumptions about what our faith is about. I have demonstrated on several occasions that there is a very rich intellectual tradition in the church and that its knowledge is the foundation of many things we today take for granted in the western world. He often dismisses what I have to say but I give him sources that can prove that what I say is actual church teaching, rather than my opinion. He has stopped treating Christianity as stupid stories for idiots and at least realises that he is ignorant. That’s a start.

I have had conversations like this with other atheists and every time I am surprised how poorly informed they are about Christianity and how their logic and disbelief have no sound foundation. This is something we can work with and show them that there is an alternative.
 
Linusthe2nd said:
My answer is no for several reasons.
  1. At the very best it is an effort with very minute potential for a positive result.
  2. Certainly for those who are young and able to get about, they should be engaged in an apostolate for which there is a real need for help, in the parish, at the diocesean level, or just in wider community projects.
  3. If you are spending an hour a day debating them that is more than enough. Much better to spend the time praying, making that daily Mass, etc.
  4. If you are reasonably intelligent and a shut in you can spend some time each day debating them if so inclined. Just keep in mind your return will be nearly zero.
  5. It is my opinion that most of these folks are just trying to " stir the pot, " they aren’t interested in anyting really but trying to sew the seeds of doubt. And we really don’t need encouragement in that regard. Even on a normal day it is sometimes hard to see the Lord’s hand at work. We really don’t need to sep in and allow someone to throw cold water on everything we hold dear.
  6. For myself, I will not answer their querys unless I detect a true openess in the search for truth. So I will limit myself to refering them to the Summas, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and perhaps some reliable author who covers the subject.
Those are my thoughts.
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I voted yes, but the answer depends on the individual and the individual situation. Some people are not good at debating or defending Christianity some have through inability or laziness not trained themselves in it, and some don’t have the right mindset for it. Such people should be very cautious about getting into a debate or extended discussion.

On the other hand, to outright say that the answer is no and that it is not worthwhile strikes me as unbiblical. St. Paul in Acts and several other apostles are referred to as debating Jewish and gentile audiences with arguments to defend and share Christianity.
 
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