Poll on sinfulness

[Angainor]

Everyone sins. Except Jesus. And Catholics would say his mother.

So how does it work?

Do we sin because we are sinful?

or

Are we sinful because we sin?

 

[Waiting]

I imagine we sin because of our weakened human nature – weakened because of original sin. If we don’t pray a lot – keeping our channels to God open – it’s very easy to fall victim to any and all temptations that the devil is happy to send our way. Frequent reception of the Sacraments will strengthen our will to avoid sin. Even so, the devil is going to make sure you’re barragged with temptations. I like to picture myself booting Satan out of my life.

 

[Anthony_V]

If you are in a state of grace, you would become sinful because you sin.

If you are not in a state of grace, you sin because you are sinful.

Sin comes from two basic identities: tendency to sin (from already being sinful), and temptation to sin (not requiring a sinful state).

Tendency and temptation are two very different matters. Here’s why:

Say you have Jesus in the desert (mass reading for today, ironically). He is tempted to sin by Satan. However, Jesus does not have tendency to sin. They are two different identities.

 

[wjp984]

I don’t quite understand the distinction between the two reasonable poll choices so I am not voting. However here is my opinion:

In my opinion people sin because they fear death or want instant gratification. Think of all the guilty pleasures in this earthly world. Christians know that Heaven awaits and that they should live a life of Christ yet choose to sin anyways.

Therefore sin in my opinion is best explained by a desire for instant gratification or a doubt at that given moment in the existence or promise of eternal life in Heaven with a happiness that no human mind can comprehend.

 

[RosaryFan]

Everyone sins. Except Jesus. And Catholics would say his mother.

So how does it work?

Do we sin because we are sinful?

or

Are we sinful because we sin?

Our fallen nature (called “concupiscence”), which we’ve inherited from Adam and Eve, causes us to have a tendency to sin.

So I would have to say that we sin because we have a condition which gives us a tendency to sin.

 

[Angainor]

Our fallen nature (called “concupiscence”), which we’ve inherited from Adam and Eve, causes us to have a tendency to sin.

So I would have to say that we sin because we have a condition which gives us a tendency to sin.

Interesting. Very careful choice of words.

Should a person who has a condition that gives him a tendency to sin be allowed into heaven, even if he never actually committed a sinful act? What would such a person do in heaven? He would be like the only guy who has a condition that gives him a tendency to sin in the whole otherwise perfect place. I imagine that would make him uncomfortable.

Even such a person needs Jesus as his savior to cure him from his condition.

 

[Waiting]

Interesting. Very careful choice of words.

Should a person who has a condition that gives him a tendency to sin be allowed into heaven, even if he never actually committed a sinful act? What would such a person do in heaven? He would be like the only guy who has a condition that gives him a tendency to sin in the whole otherwise perfect place. I imagine that would make him uncomfortable.

Even such a person needs Jesus as his savior to cure him from his condition.

Unless you were born without original sin, you also have this tendency to sin. In heaven there will be no sin or tendency to sin.

 

[Angainor]

Unless you were born without original sin, you also have this tendency to sin. In heaven there will be no sin or tendency to sin.

Sure, I agree. But how does a guy go from having a tendency to sin (but just happened to never have sinned) to not having a tendency to sin when he is in heaven?

Jesus. He still needs Jesus. He can’t just be let in with his tendency to sin.

 

[Debra_C]

The tendenscy to commit sin (Concupiscence) is a result of the stain of original sin–man’s fallen nature. It is because of this fallen nature that we need salvation in the person of Christ. We are not capable of meriting heaven on our own. We need His gift of grace.

As for that salvation, the Catholic understanding is that it is not won until we have reached heaven.

You may have heard of the concept of the 7 deadly sins: Lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy, and pride. This list is not about specific sins so much as it is about things in our lives that can cause us to commit sin. If we allow one or more of the 7 deadlies to come to dominate our thoughts, our attitude, our decisions, our actions, we will tend to commit more and more (and often increasingly serious) sins.

What you may not have heard of are the 7 virtues. Each deadly sin has an opposite virtue: Chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience,. kindness, and humility. These are principles by which if we put to practice in our lives, we can reduce our tendency to commit sin.

In Catholic teaching, it is understood that grace is a free gift of God, not something we can merit. However, it is not without strings attached. You will find no concept of “once saved, always saved” in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. We are expected to respond to God’s gift of grace by making every effort to shun our sinful nature and practice virtue. Some effective ways of doing that are the spiritual and corporal works of mercy, for example. When we fail and fall into sin again, as we all do, we are expected to repent and try again to purge sin from our lives.

While we do not achieve perfection in this life, we are to strive to do so with all our might. If we die in a state of grace (as opposed to a state of unrepented mortal sin), whatever impurities we were unable to purge ourselves of in this life will be purged in purgatory before we enter heaven. No impure or imperfect thing may enter heaven. Therefore Purgatory is a place of grace where we are so perfected–the refining fire, if you will.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Sure, I agree. But how does a guy go from having a tendency to sin (but just happened to never have sinned) to not having a tendency to sin when he is in heaven?

Jesus. He still needs Jesus. He can’t just be let in with his tendency to sin.

That is the Catholic position (we need Jesus), as a general statement, but we would also be more specific about how Jesus does justify and sanctify us.

Baptism washes away the guilt of original sin, but not the effect, ie concupiscence. We are justified by Grace, through Faith in Jesus.

In this life, although we have lost the guilt of original sin, we still struggle with concupiscence, and must atone for the sins we personally commit (mostly through prayer, penance and charity - not by specific atonement for specific sins).

Through grace, penance and charity; through the sacraments and the Word, we do reduce the effect of concupiscence in ourselves - that is what it means to become “holy”, to be “sanctified”. We cannot remove the very last trace - which would be miraculously removed at the point of death.

That’s my understanding, anyway

 

[RosaryFan]

Interesting. Very careful choice of words.

Should a person who has a condition that gives him a tendency to sin be allowed into heaven, even if he never actually committed a sinful act? What would such a person do in heaven? He would be like the only guy who has a condition that gives him a tendency to sin in the whole otherwise perfect place. I imagine that would make him uncomfortable.

Even such a person needs Jesus as his savior to cure him from his condition.

Everyone (except the Blessed Mother) has the condition of concupiscence. We inherited that from the fall of first man and woman. Since the saints are in heaven, then yes, those who had possessed the condition while on earth were allowed into heaven. Jesus’ death on the cross insured that. Once our souls are separated from our bodies (at death) we no longer have the tendency to sin. And who doesn’t commit sinful acts? We have all sinned (except the Blessed Mother). Remember, the tendency to sin is not sinful. It is acting on the tendency to sin that is sinful.

What does such a person do in heaven? The same as the angels - Glorify God for all eternity!

Jesus, by His death on the cross, has enabled us to obtain graces to fight against this tendency, but the tendency to sin is still in our human nature. That is quite obvious when you look around and see a world full of sin. The seven sacraments afford us the graces necessary to avoid sin and temptation. Since we cannot overcome our tendencies to sin by ourselves, Jesus, in His infinite wisdom, has given us the sacraments, through which we obtain the graces, to do so. That is why Catholics believe that utilizing the sacraments is imperative for our salvation.

 

[RosaryFan]

Interesting. Very careful choice of words.

Not a “careful” choice of words, but “truthful”. This is what I’ve learned and how I understand it to be.

 

[Waiting]

Sure, I agree. But how does a guy go from having a tendency to sin (but just happened to never have sinned) to not having a tendency to sin when he is in heaven?

Jesus. He still needs Jesus. He can’t just be let in with his tendency to sin.

In heaven there will be no temptations. The devil doesn’t dare show his face there. To be in the eternal presence of God would be too awesome to allow for temptation of any kind. In any case, we can’t be in heaven in less than a perfect state, anyway, so if we leave this earth with any blemish, purgatory will perfect us.